Newbie to guitar and jazz guitar

[jhofman01]

Hello, my name is Jim. I am new to guitar and want to learn jazz guitar. I have a first act paul westerberg model guitar and a fender frontman 25R amp.

The guitar has one giant single coil pickup, I am thinking of replacing that with a couple of humbuckers which I think is better for jazz(I'm guessing). What do you think? Any particular kind or brand of pickups should I look for and should I use heavier strings like 11's? I am kinda leary of going to lesson with this guitar.?.?

The amp is good, I like the clean sound. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I have that guitar because it is what I can afford.

Thanks.

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by jhofman01

Hello, my name is Jim. I am new to guitar and want to learn jazz guitar. I have a first act paul westerberg model guitar and a fender frontman 25R amp.

The guitar has one giant single coil pickup, I am thinking of replacing that with a couple of humbuckers which I think is better for jazz(I'm guessing). What do you think? Any particular kind or brand of pickups should I look for and should I use heavier strings like 11's? I am kinda leary of going to lesson with this guitar.?.?

The amp is good, I like the clean sound. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I have that guitar because it is what I can afford.

Thanks.

Hi Jim: If you are new to the guitar, and you want to learn jazz, then that's great. But, please do not start out by altering your guitar or your gear before you know what you are doing. Progress at least to the point where you are worthy of better than the guitar you already have.

[PTChristopher]

Hi Jim,

I am sure you are getting a fine clean sound out of your setup. Sure it is unusual for jazz, but so much can be done with picks, strings, and fingers - and maybe a little treble control at the amp.

100% agreed that throwing money at alterations is not necessary right now.

If I may be a little heavy-handed:

Leave the Westerberg alone and play it. It is fine for what it is, and will not be the best candidate for transformation anyway. Any teacher or jam pals that give you any trouble about your equipment are in need of replacement way before your guitar. ("Replacement", get it?) If you sound good (and you are the one to judge that), then play - make music sounds.

Now,

At some point you might well want a guitar with a little more air involved (hollow to some extent), and yes, maybe a pickup a little farther from the bridge. And in my opinion (been at this for quite a while) you can find a really very fine "jazz" guitar for remarkably reasonable money. You can get so much quality these days in a low cost guitar, with a little care.

And of course, if you play jazz for a while on the Westerberg you will really get a feel for taming treble and controlling dynamics in your pick attack.

Then you can enjoy the irony, in a few years, of putting the Joe Pass (or whatever) aside and noticing how lively and inspired your playing gets when you haul out the old First Act guitar.

It happens.

Put down the wallet and play the guitar. In my opinion.

EDIT to add:

>>> should I use heavier strings like 11's?

Yes. And consider a set with a plain G. Maybe even flatwound strings - although many players use rounds. D'A chromes in .011 will do, at low cost.

And now you've done it - I gotta go dig out a Replacements CD,...

[Retroman1969]

Yeah, I'd have to say, just get a nice thick jazz pick (I use Dunlop Stubby 3.0mm), and some flatwounds .11s on this guitar and bleed off a fair amount of treble. Then listen to some of the greats, or jazz guys that you like and work on techniques that will get you near that sound. That will do you until you start getting into it.
Ultimately you will want a hollow body of some type. Fortunately there are lots of inexpensive choices these days from Epiphone, Washburn, Ibanez, etc, that are fine playing jazz guitars for the money. I mean, we're talking $250-$350 for some of them used, if you are a patient shopper.
Major mods on the guitar you have will probably cost 1/3 or more of that and you'll only lose money on it if you decide to sell or trade later.

[jorgemg1984]

For now spend that money on the best teacher you can find. And I agree with Retroman - with so many decent anc cheap archtops these days it's probably better than changing your guitar.

[marcwhy]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

Hi Jim: If you are new to the guitar, and you want to learn jazz, then that's great. But, please do not start out by altering your guitar or your gear before you know what you are doing. Progress at least to the point where you are worthy of better than the guitar you already have.

+100 on this, and Jorge said it, too: get a good teacher! Guitar is hard enough, and jazz guitar is harder.

Have fun!

[jhofman01]

Thank you all for the advice, I have heard a good teacher is the way to go. So I will do just that. Thanks.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by jhofman01

Hello, my name is Jim. I am new to guitar and want to learn jazz guitar. I have a first act paul westerberg model guitar and a fender frontman 25R amp.

The guitar has one giant single coil pickup, I am thinking of replacing that with a couple of humbuckers which I think is better for jazz(I'm guessing). What do you think? Any particular kind or brand of pickups should I look for and should I use heavier strings like 11's? I am kinda leary of going to lesson with this guitar.?.?

The amp is good, I like the clean sound. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I have that guitar because it is what I can afford.

Thanks.

Pretty much in agreement with what was said above...some additional thoughts:

I've never seen one of these guitars in person, but its configuration looks similar to the Fender Esquire, which was my first electric guitar when I was a kid and back when you could buy an actual '57 Esquire in good condition for $75.00.

I would not be hesitant to start lessons with that guitar...just be aware, and make certain your instructor knows that you are aware, that this isn't a guitar suited to jazz performance -- BUT -- since it is the guitar you've got, it is the guitar you're going to work with for a while.

If the teacher has a problem with that, find another teacher...one with some sense.

The problem isn't the single coil pickup, because the electric jazz guitar "sound" was introduced twenty years before any guitar with a humbucking pickup was available. The problem, just like the problem with the Fender Esquire, is that the pickup is in the bridge position, rather than the neck position, and that tends to sound as lush as a garbage can rolling downhill no matter what you do.

Eventually, you're going to need a different guitar, but there are a lot of basics of playing to learn in the mean time and you can learn them on this guitar. For what it would cost you to modify this guitar, you'll be able to purchase a different guitar that will already be more suited to jazz, and so I suggest waiting from 6 months to a year after you're well underway with lessons and study to reward yourself with a better guitar in the $350~$500 range (used price -- not new). A few months after that, you can reward yourself again for your progress with pickup upgrades, etc., on this better guitar, and you can end up with a budget priced "gig-worthy" axe by the time you're ready to be heard.

I do agree that you want heavier strings...but first, I'd take the guitar to a local shop, or your instructor, or a knowledgeable friend, and have them determine if the intonation can be adjusted to accommodate string sets with a wound G string, rather than a plain G. (Particularly if the instructor you choose is affiliated with that shop, they might help you out for no cost other than the price of the set of strings just to bring you into the fold and begin making a little money through lessons, and the hope you will buy your next guitar through them.) If the guitar will handle string sets with a wound G, then that's the way to go, if jazz is going to be your direction...but I wouldn't worry too much about flat wound versus round wound at this point. It ain't gonna sound like an ES-175 no matter what kind of strings you use -- right now you need to be more concerned with strings that are "stiffer" than what you've got so that you can stretch to finger chords without bending strings and making everything sound out of tune. .011~.054 sets are as light as you want to start with, and .012~.056 would be even better.

Yes, these strings will make your hands hurt for a while. Big deal. You'll quickly get past that.

Picks are cheap, and you'll lose more of them than you wear out. I suggest starting with the Fender heavy, and a couple of bucks will buy enough of them to leave a trail behind you so that you can easily find your way home.

Get used to picking the guitar near the end of the fret board. Use your ears and listen to the sound. The "sweet spot" may be above the last couple of frets -- it might be an inch from the fretboard toward the bridge -- but it will be in that general area. Again, that won't make it sound like an ES-175 but it will help tame the clattering garbage can sound. Even if you went out right now and dropped several thousand on a "vintage jazz box," that's where you would want to pick it, so get used to that hand position today.

All just my opinions, but a pretty damned good set of opinions, in my humble opinion.

[Atticus]

The best mods I've done to my Tele were putting on flat 11s, setting the pickups to better heights than when I got it, and playing with thick picks (started with Dunlop 1.14mm Tortex, recently switched to Jazz IIIs). Cost about $25 for strings, wire cutters, a screwdriver, and a handful of picks. I've also played with a Blacktop Strat- picking technique, tasteful use of tone and volume controls on the guitar, and nice amp settings.

Some teachers might give you an odd look with that guitar, but a good one will teach you either way.