Guild X-180 at Hale/'Bay

[PTChristopher]

There is a fairly rare bird at Hale Music - on the 'bay at:

Guild X180 Archtop Guitar | fleaBay

These Corona-built Guitars are really great. Right down the middle "Maple Jazz Box" sound. Big frets and a fairly chunky C-neck.

The neck PU ring will probably be the stock wacky-slanted one, giving the same dopey PU angle as on a 175, but that is an easy fix with a little sandpaper. Or you can just tilt the PU in the ring since the Guild ring uses three screws vs. the Gibson 2.

The X-170 is an arguable classic. The 180 loses the soundpost and gains 1/2" of depth vs. the 170.

This guitar would have gone for upwards of 2 large when they were sold new.

In my opinion, the asking price may be around $200 north of what makes sense in this sluggish market. But it is a unique and really fine guitar.

Anyway, no connection with the seller - just an over-opinionated 'heads-up'.

Edit: If I were buying from Hale, I'd just call directly.

[AcornHouse]

Being a Corona Guild, the pickups, which the seller calls Guild HBs, are more properly Fender HBs. (For a discussion of the various HBs that Guild used, this is a great info page: GAD's Ramblings Guild Full-Sized HB1 and SD1 Pickup Variations

I have a very early X-170 with the vintage Guild HB1s, which are just pure jazz tone.

I wonder why they moved the selector switch to the cutaway side?

Still, can't go wrong with a Guild of any any vintage. We'll have to see whether he can get that price.

[PTChristopher]

Deleted this post. It was possibly argumentative (and useless) about the deeply subjective nature of pickup sound opinion.

[AcornHouse]

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

Deleted this post. It was possibly argumentative (and useless) about the deeply subjective nature of pickup sound opinion.

But, then again, first hand experience with the various pups, is valuable. I don't have any personal experience with ths Corona Guilds, so my info has to come from others, like the page I linked.
Other viewpoints are always welcome; that's how we can learn. (Insert politically volatile comment on single viewpoint news network with a furry tail, here.)

On the selector switch, I just noticed in the thread about Jazz posters, that a Johnny Smith album cover pic, shows a 50s Guild box, with the switch in the same cutaway position. So, I guess it was a return, rather than a departure.

Again, a Guild from any vintage (New York, Hoboken, Westerly, Corona, Tacoma, Nashua) will almost always be worth a look see, even if I, or you, or others, may have their preferences. (IMHO, of course)

[PTChristopher]

Hi Chris,

I have a Corona x-180, and have worked on many Westerly archtops.

In my opinion, the Corona PU's are fine. They sit within the range of sound variation that the Guild Westerly PU's had.

I am hard pressed to see any Fender conspiracy to save money and destroy Guild life as we know it via bad PU's. (Of course they did kill the archtop line during a seemingly turbulent period - Benedetto in, Benedetto out,...)

Thanks for the article link. I am skeptical of "uninspiring and lifeless" as an important review of a pickup (and will avoid using it to describe an article).

In my opinion, the Guild and "Fender" HB pickups both sit well within the normal range of sound available from the long list of moderately wound and magnetized (Arguably "PAF") humbucking pickups.

Chris

[2bornot2bop]

There's a plethera of X-170's for sale on eBay the past two weeks. None of them selling even though they're priced right! Okay, one of them is mine, which apparently is not priced to sell!

[PTChristopher]

EDIT: Deleted some blather.

>>> mine, which apparently is not priced to sell!

What do you figure the 170's are going for these days?

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

There's a plethera of X-170's for sale on eBay the past two weeks. None of them selling even though they're priced right! Okay, one of them is mine, which apparently is not priced to sell!

So the blonde one from '94 is yours? Gorgeous guitar, I just couldn't help but notice that the bridge is flipped (high E goes through the notch for the low E) - doesn't that result in intonation issues or does it rather cure them? I'm asking because I find mine impossible to intonate perfectly (with Sadowsky .011s).

[PTChristopher]

Hi Drift,

The 170 on the 'Bay is not mine, but I am very familiar with that bridge design.

>>> the bridge is flipped [...] doesn't that result in intonation issues or does it rather cure them?

Flipping that bridge over just gives you a bit of a mess. Assuming typical jazz player strings (a wound G and not silly-light), and assuming that you set the bridge for the E-strings, you end up with a very sharp A, a flat D, a sorta flat [wound] G and a not-too-bad B. Again, this is if the bridge is flipped over.

This bridge is best used in the normal orientation.

>>> I find mine impossible to intonate perfectly (with Sadowsky .011s).

Well, bridge compensation is only part of intonation, but to stay on that subject:

This bridge is an old design. It is on many (many, many) thousands of guitars, with Guild archtops being the most common by far.

It is fundamentally flawed, if optimum bridge compensation for the majority of wound-G string sets is the goal.

The overall offsets for the strings is a sort of exaggerated cartoon version of what works best.

In practice, the B is usually pretty flat and the G sometimes sharp. The rest are close-enough for most players.

If you have enough bridge height, the easy fix is to take about 2mm off the top of this bridge, then re-work the individual saddles. Taking off 2mm gives you enough material to move the saddle positions around.

If you want to see where most bridges will end up in the hands of an observant luthier (in my opinion), just look at a pic of the Sadowsky fixed wooden bridge (for a wound G) as supplied now on their archtops.

Note that the Sadowsky saddles are not in a straight (albeit slanted) line, but rater have individual compensation much like the Guild bridge, but not so goofy-exaggerated.

The Corona Guilds that I have seen dispense with this bridge and use a slanted straight bridge that is identical to what you see on Savannah Benedetto guitars.

This straight bridge if far better than the hyper-compensated Guild bridge. It must have been part of the Fender conspiracy to make inferior Guilds,...

(EDIT: I am joking here. In my opinion, Fender really did a fine job of moving the guild line archtop line to Corona. I do not know the reasons for ending this product line, but the guitars themselves were/are very fine.)

The Sadowsky bridges may look a little "CNC" and lack old world charm to some - but they line up extremely well vs. my experience with where most bridges end up if you compensate each string individually.

It would be easy enough to re-work the Sadowsky bridge to look a little more crafted of that floats one's boat.

Of course it is pretty easy to just make a bridge from scratch as well.

In a nutshell:

Yes you will have trouble with the old Guild bridge if you are a little particular about compensation.

Many thousands of players are happy with the bridge, and MacDonalds in the US has served fine meals to billions. These observations may not be directly related.

If you set this bridge (or almost ANY fixed wooden bridge) to optimise the B string and the low E, you will in most cases be happier vs. setting the bridge for the E strings. Sometimes it is even better to set the bridge for the B and the A.

I set the B for the treble end of the bridge, then look at both the low E and the A and fudge something in between of they do not want the exact same bridge position.

All in my opinion. Others may feel very differently.

Chris

[Drifter]

Hey Chris,

thanks a lot for your detailed reply! Priceless knowledge, thanks for sharing.

I don't want to mess with the original bridge in order not to decrease resale value (although for reasons I still don't understand that isn't all too high anyway). Unfortunately I did not succeed to score an original replacement bridge to experiment with, they don't seem to be available anymore. I've tried a few aftermarket bridges but they all don't have the right size (height / string spacing), although some came close. The Sadowsky True Tone Bridge might be a good idea indeed, I would have to measure if it would fit the X-170. But maybe the easiest solution is to have a luthier build a new saddle from scratch. Until then I'll try your advice to set the bridge for the B and A or low E strings. Thanks again!

[Double 07]

Oh I thought somebody said Halle Berry. I was like where?

This is about Guild archtops, okay carry on

[PTChristopher]

[Drifter]>>> I'll try your advice to set the bridge for the B and A or low E strings.

Give it a try. Using the B string as a reference really works well for many string sets and bridges. In my opinion, most players are happier with the results when using the B, low E and A vs. the common suggestion of using the E strings.

The potential problem with the Guild-type bridge is that the B is so deeply compensated, that setting the bridge for the B can leave the G and high E a little sharp.

So if you set the bridge for the B and then the G and E start to sound sharp to you as you play up the neck, you may do well to sneak the treble end of the bridge back away from the nut slightly.

Stewmac sells a bridge in the Guild configuration. The base is different, but the bridge is the same basic design. If the hole spacing does not match your base, the solution is to plug the holes with rosewood and re-drill to the correct spacing.

But you can always save the original and get a new one made in any configuration you like.

I forget the name, but there is a guy in Europe somewhere (maybe UK/Ireland) who will make a custom bridge for you. But you may also have a local luthier who can do this without any problem.

[AcornHouse]

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

EDIT: Deleted some blather.

>>> mine, which apparently is not priced to sell!

What do you figure the 170's are going for these days?

I paid $1175 for mine from GC. From $1100-1300 in good condition is a good benchmark.

[PTChristopher]

[Drifter] >>> [X-170] resale value (although for reasons I still don't understand that isn't all too high anyway).

I think the resale value is more modest than you might expect for a few reasons:

We are still in a crap-o-potamus economy.

There is a regular supply of X170s on the used market so no need to panic-buy as some may be doing with Epi Byrdlands.

There is a HUGE modern market for well made thin/smaller bodied guitars for jazz players. So the beautiful and well conceived 170 sits in a very broad market of possibilities for players wanting an un-huge bodied guitar.

[Flyin' Brian]

Originally Posted by AcornHouse

On the selector switch, I just noticed in the thread about Jazz posters, that a Johnny Smith album cover pic, shows a 50s Guild box, with the switch in the same cutaway position. So, I guess it was a return, rather than a departure.
(IMHO, of course)

Here it is.