Old European archtop guitars

[Hammertone]

There is a completely parallel world of archtop guitars that are from Europe, that evolved a bit before WWII and boomed after WWII.

Lots of information at
- euroguitars.co.uk/ - European Vintage Guitars (which I moderate)
- schlaggitarren.de/ - put together by Stefan Lob in Germany
and a few more spots.

While many of the American builders came from Germany, and there was trade in guitar parts from a variety of German suppliers, the European archtops developed quite separately from the American.

There were a few companies and people outside of Germany and Czechoslovakia (including Levin, Egmond, Landola, Bjarton, and more). The Italians made some, as did various Eastern bloc groups, but the real action took place in West Germany and East Germany.

Pre-war, the Czech arch tops came from Schonbach, with Hofner making cheap instruments. Just a few miles West, in Germany, was Markneukirchen and several other small instrument making towns. The Windisch family was making Otwin arch tops, heavily influenced by Epiphone. Felix Staerke, Franz Hirsch, Wenzel Rossmeisl and one or two other were interested in arch tops. Beyond this there was no interest, and the entire concept was viewed with contempt by the instrument-building establishment and guilds. Classical guitars had only recently become respectable.

more to come...

[jdazey]

OK, Hammertone, you've piqued my interest. Let's have some more.
Joe

[TruthHertz]

I remember some old European guitars on 48th street and in pawn shops on 8th Ave in NY during the 70's. I've never seen one in good shape. They were built by violin makers in Europe, some of them were really heavily built, there were some with Martin type slotted, some with scroll headstocks, violin type bridges, violin type varnishes.
Strange how many types of guitars those old shops had in their windows, and now it's almost all production line instruments and Asian electrics.
The ones I remembered were Italian or German, and none of them were without need of serious restoration.
What's the story in Europe? The American archtops were dominated by Gibson (Loar) design and perfected by the NY Italian and Greek builders. I haven't seen European design outside of Hofner in all these years.
David

[Hammertone]

...my aching head. Somebody get me an icepack and a Bloody Mary. Oh, right, European arch top guitars.....

[Hammertone]

So pre-war there was a bit of action, mostly Hofner and Otwin, with a bit of high-end work from Starke (ESTE) and Rossmeisl (Roger), who worked closely with Hirsch. Fast forward to after WWII.

Some of you may know a bit of history, but the short form is that 1,500 German-speaking members of the Czech instrument-building profession were deported from Schonbach and the surrounding area and most of them ended up in south-central Germany, in the Erlangen area (Bubenreuth, Hagenau, Tennenlohe, and so forth). This became the post-war centre for instrument-building on a large scale in what was now West Germany, where there had been no such industry before.

Markneukirchen and close-by towns such as Erlbach, Adorf, Klingenthal had the good fortune to be in the worker's paradise, East Germany. Poor bastards.

There is also an ancient instrument-building town, Mittenwald, (3 hours south of Erlangen) which became important in the evolution of German arch tops. The Mittenwald guys and the Markneukirchen guys are like the Jets and the Sharks - rivals.

Schonbach was renamed Luby, and the instrument-building tradition continued, albeit on a much diminished scale.



more...

[Hammertone]

Post-war German Luthier Scorecard, more than a bit simplified for this quick tour:

Luby/Kraslice area, in Czechoslovakia - some action

Markneukirchen area, in East Germany - some action

Erlangen area, in West Germany - tons of action - surrounded by hundreds of thousands of bored American soldiers

Mittenwald area - some action

and a few outliers elsewhere in the country.


I'm not really considering other European makers, of which there were several. Mostly junk, except for Levin and a few really small shops.

[Hammertone]

The Erlangen crowd, who had been deported and lost the most, ended up doing the best because they were in West Germany, with access to hundreds of thousands of American soldiers, access to other markets in Europe and the UK, and were self-contained - all of the necessary craftspeople were among them. The Hofner and Wilfer families led by establishing a company that essentially became Framus. Following some disagreements, Hofner split off to re-establish Hofner as a company. Klira, Hopf, Hoyer and others were in the area. Teller (bridges), Schaller (hardware), Mueller (hardware) Kollitz (wood) and others were all among the deported families.

This is where the vast majority of German arch tops were made. Most of them were inexpensive laminated instruments, some quite good. A handful of sold carved top instruments came out of this area - some carved top Hofners and Hopfs. The 18" Hoyer Special with carved top and back, stands out here, along with a few 18" Hopf guitars made by Gustav Glassl, as well as a few others. But these are few and far between compared to the cheap stuff. Plenty of info on who's who on the sites referenced above.

Three all-carved 18" Hoyer Specials:



more...

[Hammertone]

Over in Luby, a few archtops were being built, mostly for export. Brauer made some gorgeous guitars, most of which seem to be parked in a Polish collection these days. Cremona, Radiotone and other brands were used. Plenty of info on who's who on the sites referenced above.

more...

[Hammertone]

In Markneukirchen, a variety of individual builders were making a few arch top guitars. Without access to the decadent and corrupt West, they came up with a variety of oddball designs. Over the years they were corralled by the Central Committee and all essentially ended up working for big grey cooperatives like MUSIMA, MARMA, MIGMA, making crappy "schlaggittaren". A few of them made a few fantastic all-carved archtops. Names like Todt, Seifert, Bachmann, Schaufuss, Kruel, Wander, Roth, Meinl, Wolfrum and more mean nothing to most of you, but all of these guys and a few more built fantastic arch top guitars in the 1950s. Most of the guitars do not have typical "brands" on them. Plenty of info on who's who on the sites referenced above. This is the fun stuff, where we are doing most of our research.

more....

[Hammertone]

Over in Mittenwald, Arthur Lang settled in a nearby town and became the West German version of John D'Angelico, quietly turning out a few hundred of the best arch tops in the world bar none.

Up in Berlin, an entrepreneurial guy named Wenzel Rossmeisl set up the Roger company in 1947 to build arch tops. He had already started doing this before the war. After starting production in Berlin, he set up a shop in Markneukirchen to supply Berlin, then got arrested and jailed and generously donated his shop to the worker's paradise. During this time his son Roger Rossmeisl ran the Berlin business into bankruptcy and moved to the USA in 1953. Wenzel got out of jail in 1954 and ended up in Mittenwald, where he re-established the Roger company in 1955, and built arch tops for a few years until the arch top market essentially died in the late 1960s.

Roger guitars are wonderful, innovative instruments, mostly with carved tops and backs. Unlike most other German makers, he labeled the instruments produced by his shop - the highest number to date is 3449, suggesting he made that many guitars. But the wise men think he was yanking our chain and that he skipped a few numbers. Hey Arny - do you still have your Roger?

more...

[Hammertone]

So there you have it.

The Japanese wiped out the West German guitar builders in the late 1960s and 1970s. Only Hofner survived. The East German guys faded away as production slowly turned to crappier and crappier stuff.

Framus went under and is now back, building Warwick basses and Framus guitars and amps.

The parts suppliers kept going - Schaller, ABM, Teller, Kollitz, Shellex, etc.

Until recently, no one cared about any of this stuff. Germans wanted (and still want) American brands, not their parents' and grandparents' stupid stuff. Five guys paid attention to it, quietly amassing amazing collections. Now its twenty-five guys. Big whoop. Most of the guitars in question are still dirt cheap.

And now we have the intertubes, where a few simple clicks and a few hours of reading can given you the knowledge that took many, many years for a few of us to uncover. John Keats said it best:

On first looking into Chapman’s Homer

MUCH have I travell’d in the realms of gold,
And many goodly states and kingdoms seen;
Round many western islands have I been
Which bards in fealty to Apollo hold.
Oft of one wide expanse had I been told
That deep-brow’d Homer ruled as his demesne;
Yet did I never breathe its pure serene
Till I heard Chapman speak out loud and bold:
Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
When a new planet swims into his ken;
Or like stout Cortez when with eagle eyes
He star’d at the Pacific—and all his men
Look’d at each other with a wild surmise—
Silent, upon a peak in Darien.

It's a whole other ocean, so go get wet.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Hammertone

There is also an ancient instrument-building town, Mittenwald, (3 hours south of Erlangen) which became important in the evolution of German arch tops.

Thank you (and my sympathies on your headache ) This is truly enlightening.
Yes, here in the states, Mittenwald is known to violin builders as the cultural genesis for a German/American school of luthierie located in Durham NH. Karl Roy headed that legacy, and some American luthiers did study with him. American luthier Alan Carruth studied with Roy and Carleen Hutchens (of the Sacconi Italian violin lineage) and makes fine archtops out of his shop in New Hampshire. It's a rich tradition to know the family tree of your instrument, something you don't see a lot of today. Thanks
David

[oldane]

Thanks a lot for this excellent overview.

Being a 60 years old European myself (Danish), I actually remember a good deal of those brands you mention. Bill Wyman of The Rolling Stones played a Framus bass in the mid sixties. Atilla Zoller was an endorser for Framus who had a model carrying his name. Swedish jazz guitarist Rune Gustafsson used a Framus at one point.

My first guitar - which I had for X-mas from my parents in 1965 - was a Musima from East Germany. It was before we got access to Japanese instruments and cheap, low grade instruments came from the "workers paradise". Two years later, I bought a second hand Hofner plywood archtop dirt cheap in a pawn shop. I was an OK instrument, but nothing overwhelming. I later got a Gibson 175 and the Hofner collected dust untill I lent it to a friend whom I later fell out of contact with. He may still have it.

I also remeber with affection the Levin archtops, which was at another and higher level than the Hofner instruments we normally saw. As a young student I used to drool over them (especially the blondes) in instruments shops in Copenhagen, but regrettably I could not afford one at that time.

The locations Markneukirchen and Klingenthal were also known for production of wind instruments in the DDR days. In my younger days I owned a "Weltklang" tenor sax made in Markneukirchen. Despite the seemingly obvious, it actually played in tune, didn't leak and sounded good (not with the original mouthpiece, though).

I believe they still produce wind instruments in Klingenthal - of higher quality than back then. In some instances the old DDR "VEB" (Volkseigene Betrieb = Peoples owned business) factories has after the reunion of Germany evolved into manufacturers of high quality goods. Another example is the town of Glashütte which was a watchmaking center before WW2. In the DDR days crap watches were made there. Now the town is back on track and some of the worlds finest watches are made there (the Glashütte Original brand and others).

[anothersixstringer]

This topic is really interesting, thanks a lot for all the work put into these postings.
Now, all these struck a note on me as, I do have a bookmark on my browser mapping to the 'Bianka project' ! I do hope that I would play one in the future (or even better, own one, albeit they seem very expensive and rare)
Here is the link:
BIANKA PROJECT-2005

Surprising note there was that Randy Bachman (Guess Who, BTO) is an enthusiastic fan of German Archtops, good stuff!

Cheers!


ps: my first forum post for 2012, Happy New Year everyone!!!

[jdazey]

Thanks for posting all this history. I don't think I alone in valuing the context of this music. The traditions behind the music, the musicians, the instruments as well as the social and economic changes that shape them all affect me each time I pick up my guitar.

FWIW, my first guitar was a Framus 12 string that I picked up when I was stationed in Frankfurt in 1969. I couldn't play it, it was so awful. I ended up trading it for a cheap classical. Now I know that the action was far too high, but it soured me on 12 strings to this day. Maybe not on Framus or other German archtops though. They seem to be in good supply at reasonable prices these days.

Joe

[oldane]

Originally Posted by anothersixstringer

Here is the link:
BIANKA PROJECT-2005

That link (put up by a Japanese collector) is great. It also brings back personal memories from my teenager years and youth. I remeber many of those instruments from back then. The page about Framus (links in the top of the website) also mentions the "Framus - Billy Lorento" brand of strings. I used them in the late sixties - they started my taste for flat wounds. I clearly remember those string envelopes. Billy Lorento later relocated to US and became famous as the pickup designer Bill Lawrence.

[kid deluxe]

don't forget Levin Guitars from Sweden.
beautiful guitars..

Vintage Guitars, SWEDEN - Levin guitars.

[voxwerx]

Thanks for posting this information! As a military brat, I lived in Germany for 7 years- and have many fond memories. I lived in a little town called Hirschfeld- where I remember a guy playing what (my memory tells me) looked like a Framus in one of the little shops in town.

I guess this sort of history just appeals to me more and more as I continue my inevitable descent into geezerdom....

Thanks again!!!

[oldane]

Originally Posted by kid deluxe

don't forget Levin Guitars from Sweden.
beautiful guitars..

Vintage Guitars, SWEDEN - Levin guitars.

+1. The pictured sample is a beauty - classic, tasteful and with a styling of its own.

It was Levin guitars like that one I used to drool over - but could not afford - in the Copenhagen instrument shops back in the late 1960s. Like I wrote, the blonde versions especially appealed to me. As I remember, those D'Armond pickups sounded great.

[63Bigsby]

Originally Posted by kid deluxe

don't forget Levin Guitars from Sweden.
beautiful guitars..

Vintage Guitars, SWEDEN - Levin guitars.

I used to have one exactly like that, wonderful guitar! This Levin is particularly interesting:
Vintage Guitars, SWEDEN - 1937-1939 Levin De Luxe, Top-of-the-line Levin Deluxe Model

Here in Finland, Jaakko Noso was one the pioneers of guitar building. His acoustic arch tops were, like Levins, heavily Epiphone influenced. Probably due to the fact that Epi had a Swedish dealership. I used to own one unusual Noso, it had a carved mahogany back and sides, but the spruce f-hole top was flat. Jaakko Noso quit building guitars in the mid 60's and moved to Vancouver.

[oldane]

Originally Posted by 63Bigsby

His acoustic arch tops were, like Levins, heavily Epiphone influenced. Probably due to the fact that Epi had a Swedish dealership.

Levin guitars (at least some of them) were also inspired by Elmer Strombergs instruments in that they had a single diagonal brace - something I have only seen on Levins and Strombergs. But mayby others can bring up other examples of this.

[David B]

Any idea of the going price for a Levin like the one shown above? Searches of a few European eBay sites haven't turned up much.

[Hammertone]

Call:

Vintage Guitars
Stockholm Sweden
+46-(0)73-570 63 28

info@vintage-guitars.se

They appear to have dealt many Levins, and you can look at pix of old sold guitars and think happy thoughts as well.

[63Bigsby]

Originally Posted by David B

Any idea of the going price for a Levin like the one shown above? Searches of a few European eBay sites haven't turned up much.

There's one here in Helsinki right now priced at 2500 Euros:
http://www.kitarapaja.com/pics/lev315601_1024_768.JPG

And one a bit less fancy for 1500:
http://www.kitarapaja.com/pics/lev33564sb1_1024_768.JPG

...this one is 1500,-
http://www.kitarapaja.com/pics/lev451_1024_768.JPG

...and this for 1000,-
http://www.kitarapaja.com/pics/levat441_1024x768.JPG

[cmajor9]

It's true - there are some interesting and beautiful variations on the archtop theme from Europe, especially Germany. They range from very traditional to unique and 'modern,' and some have the kind of touches only handmaking makes possible:

[cmajor9]

A few more examples...

[Hammertone]

Hey, Otwin guitars need Otwin pickups!

Speaking of which, I'm at the NAMM show in LA and had a mysterious package wrapped in brown paper delivered to me at the Hofner booth. Thanks.

Not a German-built archtop in sight, except for some stuff from Framus, Nik Huber and some Hofner hybrids.

[trainerj]

just picked up an old f hole acoustic egmond at auction,mate is checking it out for me.Got an old eastern european one that my mrs found lying next to a bin in glasgow.Clunky old fecker with really high action.Put them in open tuning and play slide with them,great fun and cost next to nothing,the older the strings the better.

[dkohara]

Just posted a 1653 Musima in great condition on Ebay if anyone's interested:

Vintage Musima Guitar Archtop Sunburst F-Holes Fifties Sixties | eBay

All the best! DK

[kris]

Originally Posted by cmajor9

A few more examples...

Looks nice.
How they sound?