Best Jazz box for ~$500?

[mr. beaumont]

Joe Pass never endorsed a "Joe Pass" model Epiphone.

I recently bought a loar--an lh-600. Mine had some cosmetic issues, but the neck was perfect...I took a chance and got lucky, but I too have heard the horror stories...it could be that they are figuring things out there.

I consider the cheaper ibanez and epiphones as "okay at best" instruments. And you're still paying for a "name"--check out rondomusic, aria, less desirable "names," but the same okay guitars encased in a glossy poly finish...

Rumor has it the older korean made epi's are nicer. The higher end ibanez artcores (out of your budget new) are pretty nice.

The kingpin is miles ahead of the epiphones. Miles. People think it looks cheaop because it doesn't have that glossy finish...I don't get it...

[Jazzman301]

Its like buying a used car...you have to see past the freshly cleaned interior, steam cleaned engine bay, and well buffed paint job. I saw a cat pass on a really well priced ES150 with a single P90 to buy something that was "shinier". He ended up spending less but was convinced the few scuffs and light signs of limited use of the ES150 meant it was not a good instrument...

I think an instrument should be bought with your eyes closed. How does it feel? How does it sound? If it sound good then BAM thats the one and who cares what the headstock says. When I bought my Peerless Monarch I compared it to a 2006ish ES175 and hands down the Monarch was the winner in terms of feel, sound, playability, fit and finish. The best part was the Monarch was also about $1400 cheaper.

I revently played an Aria Herb Ellis and it was a great sounding instrument and well priced used at just under $400!

'Mike

[Norman931]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Joe Pass never endorsed a "Joe Pass" model Epiphone.

. . .

The kingpin is miles ahead of the epiphones. Miles. People think it looks cheaop because it doesn't have that glossy finish...I don't get it...

Not sure what you mean about Joe Pass. He made the Epiphone deal in the early 90s, and many were sold with his name on them while he was alive and playing. It did seem to be an odd endorsement, as he seldom, if ever, played one, and the ads of the time just used an old black and white photo of Joe holding his ES-175. The guitar he played most in those years was a thinner-bodied one-pick-up ES-175, probably custom-made for him by Gibson.

I have to agree with you on the Godin Kingpin. There is nothing cheap about it, except the price. Fantastic guitar.

[mr. beaumont]

Norman, where did you hear that? I was under the impression that epiphone renamed the emperor II after Joe's death.

[Norman931]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Norman, where did you hear that? I was under the impression that epiphone renamed the emperor II after Joe's death.

No, Joe made the deal. I've heard a rumor that he did it mostly to secure an income for his wife, as he had begun his struggle with cancer by that time. I've seen one or two pictures of him playing one. You can look back at old issues of Guitar Player from before Joe's death in 1994 to see the ads I mentioned. I was a Pass fan all the way back in the 80s, when he was still endorsing the Ibanez JP20.

[Richard-H]

Here's a video of Joe Pass playing an Epiphone "Joe Pass". Unfortunately, the sound quality is bad:

Joe Pass & Epiphone Joe Pass - YouTube

From what I heard on UTube, I wasn't crazy about the Godin Kingpin - but that's why I think I'll make a trek to NYC to play the guitars rather than relying on UTube reviews....

[Richard-H]

Here's a vid of Joe Pass (with Oscar Peterson) playing an Ibanez JP-20...doesn't appear to be for promotional purposes:

OSCAR PETERSON & JOE PASS - YouTube

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Richard-H

Here's a video of Joe Pass playing an Epiphone "Joe Pass". Unfortunately, the sound quality is bad:

Joe Pass & Epiphone Joe Pass - YouTube

From what I heard on UTube, I wasn't crazy about the Godin Kingpin - but that's why I think I'll make a trek to NYC to play the guitars rather than relying on UTube reviews....

Ah, I've figured it out now...

That's an Emperor II. Joe did endorse Epi, however, the Emperor II was not called the Epiphone Joe Pass until after his death. The JP features the pickguard emblazoned with his signature and moves the toggle switch to the upper bout.

Not that any of this matters, mind you

[Bflat]

Could you tell me if there's any substantial difference between that AF105 and the AF95, besides the pickups and that the AF105 comes with a case?


Yes, i have the floating pickup af 105. The pickups didn't quite have enough volume and clarity on the treble side so i had a kent armstrong installed and it sounds wonderful. The af 95 sound great alone or with a bass but was lacking if adding drums and another guitar. I bought the af 95 on ebay for 300 shipped in a case. One the best deals i got.

[ptrallan01]

Since your going to a guitar store to check them out, add a Hagstrom HL550 to your list. Try to find one of the "natural" matte finishes. They are more resonant than the laminated versions.

I have a Hagstrom, two Ibanezs (AF105 and AF75) an Eastman AR810 a Gretsch 5120. Of these the Eastman AF105 and Hagstrom are 1,2,3 in that order. I bought the AF105NT (dual pickups as oppossed to the F(loat)) used and will eventually replace the metal tune o matic with a rosewood bridge but other than that it is stock and I love it. I tend to play that or the Hagstrom with others since the Eastman feeds back in a crowd. I keep getting ready to sell the Hagstrom and then I play it and I can't sell it because it works.

Interesting it isn't really a has violin style sound posts in it. It doesn't have the woody sound of the Eastman but I can play it without feedback in just about any situation. I play in small churches where everything is packed together so this, feedback, is a major concern.

[Richard-H]

Originally Posted by ptrallan01

Since your going to a guitar store to check them out, add a Hagstrom HL550 to your list. Try to find one of the "natural" matte finishes. They are more resonant than the laminated versions.

I have a Hagstrom, two Ibanezs (AF105 and AF75) an Eastman AR810 a Gretsch 5120. Of these the Eastman AF105 and Hagstrom are 1,2,3 in that order. I bought the AF105NT (dual pickups as oppossed to the F(loat)) used and will eventually replace the metal tune o matic with a rosewood bridge but other than that it is stock and I love it. I tend to play that or the Hagstrom with others since the Eastman feeds back in a crowd. I keep getting ready to sell the Hagstrom and then I play it and I can't sell it because it works.

Interesting it isn't really a has violin style sound posts in it. It doesn't have the woody sound of the Eastman but I can play it without feedback in just about any situation. I play in small churches where everything is packed together so this, feedback, is a major concern.

Does the Hagstrom really have the great balance between notes that I see advertized and on UTube clips? (i.e. No 'wolf' tones).

I had ruled this guitar out because of the price, but since I've decided to wait a while, it'll be possible..

[Norman931]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Ah, I've figured it out now...

That's an Emperor II. Joe did endorse Epi, however, the Emperor II was not called the Epiphone Joe Pass until after his death. The JP features the pickguard emblazoned with his signature and moves the toggle switch to the upper bout.

Not that any of this matters, mind you

You're right; it doesn't really matter, but the guitar WAS called the Joe Pass Emperor II for at least three years prior to Joe's death, as can be seen in this advertisement from 1991. Joe died in 1994. Notice that the toggle switch is like the one in the video. OOOOOkay, I REALLY need to get back to work. . .

[ptrallan01]

I paid $600 for mine with a hard case new. If you're looking in the $500 range you should be able to find one used in that area. The balance between the notes is excellent. I'm not sure what a wolf tone so I can't answer that, sorry. I have flat wound 10's that sound great. I need to get a little work done on the high E string nut slot because the groove needs to be a bit deeper since it shipped with 9s but after 2 years it really isn't an issue.

[hallpass]

Originally Posted by Richard-H

Could you tell me if there's any substantial difference between that AF105 and the AF95, besides the pickups and that the AF105 comes with a case?

I prefer the color of the AF95 and am considering getting one and putting in a pair of Seymour Duncan '59ers. Th two guitars appear to be the same otherwise - are there some features to the AF105 that aren't covered in the basic specs that make it a better guitar?

I can add a little more info about the difference between the standard Artcores and the Artcore Custom models.

Besides the better pickups on the Customs and the inclusion of a hard case, there is a difference in the necks. The Customs use 5 piece Maple/Walnut and the standards use a one piece Mahogany neck.There are also Artcore Deluxe models that use a 3pc Maple/Mahogany neck. I believe the fretwork could be different between Customs and Standards as well. The Customs also have nicer appointments, often made of rosewood or the like (pickup rings, knobs, etc).

I own an AK105 and used to own an AF105 and must say their necks are so comfortable for me and the fretwork is fantastic and flawless.

I can understand liking the color of the AF95 over the natural AF105. But I do think the Customs are better and worth it. There is also the AF125 and other more limited models (AF105VB, AK105SM, AF105SM). For example, the AF105VB is the same AF105 in vintage burst: IBANEZ Af105vb artcore custom sunburst with case - Electric guitars - Hollow and semi-hollow | Woodbrass.com

[Retroman1969]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

The kingpin....... People think it looks cheaop because it doesn't have that glossy finish...I don't get it...

That was my favorite part. Looked like wood, not plastic.

[Jazzman301]

I think the Eastman AR371 was mentioned before. I sent Lou and email over at Guitarsnjazz and he is selling them for $750. This is what Lou sent me:
Hello Mike, They make 3 new models AR371 all laminated maple- nice wide Rosewood neck and fingerboard $750, the 403 same specs except venetian cutaway laminated spruce top $795, 503 same specs except venetian carved spruce top 895. I also have a 603 prototype venetian all carved mahogany back and sides, rosewood fretboard, carved spruce top for $1295. They all paly and sound great
Thanks, Lou

So it seems not quite in the $500 range but if you are willing to wait or can work out a payment plan with Lou these are out of your price point.

'Mike
p.s Aria makes some pretty decent stuff that can be had in the $500 range. Also I will say again that Dearmond archtops are pretty nice and can be found used for right about $500 and often with a hsc.

[raylinds]

Originally Posted by Norman931

You're right; it doesn't really matter, but the guitar WAS called the Joe Pass Emperor II for at least three years prior to Joe's death, as can be seen in this advertisement from 1991. Joe died in 1994. Notice that the toggle switch is like the one in the video. OOOOOkay, I REALLY need to get back to work. . .

I bought an Epi JP Emperor II around '92 or '93. I moved to NYC in '93 and had it when I moved, so I know it was before then.

[Richard-H]

So, I've bought a used Ibanez AF95 from MF for $463. I was able to afford a hard case with it.

The first thing about this guitar is that it's absolutely beautiful - but when I played it, it sounded terrible - it had a horrible rattle. I was about to send it back but decided to try setting it up and see how it sounded.

I put on D'Addario Jazz Chromes, adjusted the action and intonation, and lowered the pickups - and it sounded absolutely great - the rattle disaapeared. I haven't stopped playing it all week.

Then last night the rattle came back. Once again I was considering sending it back.

I decided to try to locate and fix the rattle, if possible, so out of curiousity, I went to a local music store and tested a Ibanez AF85. It had the same rattle, but much worse! Something seems to be wrong with these guitars.

I think that I've found the problem: it seems that the hole size and threading of the bridge saddle pieces doesn't match the size and threading of the adjustment screws - this is why the rattle went away right after an intonation adjustment. Today the screws were so loose that they'd turn just by brushing my finger on them. Weird.

I like this guitar too much to return it (and I'll never get anything as good for $463). For now I'll readjust the intonation and put some loctite on the screws to stop the rattle. Someday I'll get a new set of saddles and screws from StewMac.

Has anybody else experienced this problem with Artcore hollowbodies?

[SearchForMeaning]

It's not uncommon. Someday for kicks, put a wood saddle piece on there. You'll be shocked at the difference. I've seen all sorts of solutions to it, pieces of paper wedged in there, drop of wax from a candle, a spring laid across the top, but it's not a hard fix. Enjoy the new guitar!

[aniss1001]

I tried some different cheaper semi-hollows recently and the one I liked the best would be the Hagstrom Viking which should be around $500-600 (unfortunately they cost double here). Don't know if Hagstrom makes hollows too?!

[Retroman1969]

They do. The HL550....

Good looking Archie, and gets generally good reviews.

[MjBobolink]

Greetings... Regarding rattling Ibanez Artcores . . . I bought an Ibanez AK95 two years ago (wooden bridge model). It needed some set up work to solve some string rattling. A few other odd rattles were fixed by tightening the screws around the pickups and rings; a final rattle was solved by removing the pickguard. The screw hole near the neck had been sloppily drilled leaving two small holes practically on top of each other. The guard assembly was rattling around. I got a deal on mine, since it had been in the store for a few years before I bought it.

I had a proper setup done on it this week, including some work on the net and the frets. It plays better and looks better than when I bought it two years ago. Or maybe my hearing is worse and my standards lower! No buzzes or rattles though.

Take care,
---Mike

[NSJ]

Best guitar under 500?

Easy. deArmond X--155. No longer made--it was made by Guild under the Fender ownership and sold at mainstream Guitar Centers until about 2006 or so.

you now find them on CLs for 400-500 used. It was cheap, but the components were top notch. pros could gig with em, from what I've heard. as good as anything twice the price.

That's the only guitar I would consider--archtop--for under 500. The rest of them are in the "meh" category.

[JakeAcci]

+1 for DeArmond X 155. I have one, and for the price it is great. Although I did pay $650 for mine.

In fairness it's the only archtop I've ever owned. I am about to upload a video of me playing it.

[pingu]

Originally Posted by Richard-H

So, I've bought a used Ibanez AF95 from MF for $463. I was able to afford a hard case with it.
<snip> Has anybody else experienced this problem with Artcore hollowbodies?

Sorting out the little rattles is standard proceedure
when getting a new (or used sometimes) axe

Even high end Gibsons need sorting out
If you want to mellow it out try a wood bridge saddle on it anyway

I'm considering one of these myself
Hollow Body Guitars -AFJ81 | Ibanez guitars

[hallpass]

Originally Posted by Richard-H

Has anybody else experienced this problem with Artcore hollowbodies?

I have not. But the two Artcores I have owned were both wooden bridge and Artcore Customs.

[Jazzman301]

I am also a fan of the Dearmon X155 AND X135(single pickup). Both great guitars.

'Mike

[mambosun]

Originally Posted by aniss1001

I tried some different cheaper semi-hollows recently and the one I liked the best would be the Hagstrom Viking which should be around $500-600 (unfortunately they cost double here). Don't know if Hagstrom makes hollows too?!

The Hagstrom HL550 is a good archtop but you have to try it by yourself. I tested it against a Samick Gregg Benett JZ4 and I ended up buying the Samick. Better acoustic sound, fit and finish, cosmetics and perceived quality.

Design wise, the Samick is more traditional, very L5 like, while the Hagstrom departs a bit from that.

Plugged in, both bears a floater which sound really good.

[pghguitar]

Originally Posted by Richard-H

So, I've bought a used Ibanez AF95 from MF for $463. I was able to afford a hard case with it.

The first thing about this guitar is that it's absolutely beautiful - but when I played it, it sounded terrible - it had a horrible rattle. I was about to send it back but decided to try setting it up and see how it sounded.

I put on D'Addario Jazz Chromes, adjusted the action and intonation, and lowered the pickups - and it sounded absolutely great - the rattle disaapeared. I haven't stopped playing it all week.

Then last night the rattle came back. Once again I was considering sending it back.

I decided to try to locate and fix the rattle, if possible, so out of curiousity, I went to a local music store and tested a Ibanez AF85. It had the same rattle, but much worse! Something seems to be wrong with these guitars.

I think that I've found the problem: it seems that the hole size and threading of the bridge saddle pieces doesn't match the size and threading of the adjustment screws - this is why the rattle went away right after an intonation adjustment. Today the screws were so loose that they'd turn just by brushing my finger on them. Weird.

I like this guitar too much to return it (and I'll never get anything as good for $463). For now I'll readjust the intonation and put some loctite on the screws to stop the rattle. Someday I'll get a new set of saddles and screws from StewMac.

Has anybody else experienced this problem with Artcore hollowbodies?

I have an AK-95 (with a wooden bridge), and have not had any rattling problem. Possibly swap out the bridge with a wooden one and see if you have any better luck ?