chet atkins neck, byrdland body

**camdaniel** · 12-13-2011, 04:43 PM

i've played a few gibson jazz boxes, and i think i've discovered what i like. unfortunately it does not exist in one guitar.

i can't stand the body of a standard jazz guitar, something like an es-5. it's way too bulky for me.

i really love the wide, classical guitar neck on a country gentleman. however the body is much too thin, it doesn't fit snuggly against your body while sitting. and it has a center block. both no-go's.

the byrdland is perfect for me body-wise, not so bulky that i feel like i'm hugging a cello, and not as thin as a semi-hollow that keeps slipping off my lap.

i know the es-350 is the most likely compromise, as it has the byrdland's body and a full scale neck as opposed to 24 3/4 or 23.5, but it's still not
wide enough.

so is there a jazz guitar that has the thinner (not semi-hollow thin) body, and a classical neck?

**fws6** · 12-13-2011, 05:19 PM

So to avoid further confusion ; you'd want a guitar with a 17" wide, 2 1/4" deep body, and a 25-1/2 scale and a 1-3/4 wide nut ?

Floating or fixed PU ? Solid or Laminated ?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-13-2011, 05:20 PM

Classical neck? Like a 2" nut? I think that would be a custom build.

**zizala** · 12-13-2011, 05:40 PM

I once owned a '56 ES-350T......it had the 23.5" scale neck and 17" thin body like a Byrdland.

That body with my '47 ES-300's bigger long scale neck would have been some kind of perfection for me.
It would have been a thin body ES-350 of sorts.

So I think we're on the same page except possibly fretboard width.

I'm sure I've seen something like that among the small shop builders....I believe it was something that Campellone built, but was likely a custom order.

ziz

**fws6** · 12-13-2011, 05:46 PM

he is talking the GIBSON country gent which has a 1-3/4 nut

the Gretsch gents, though matching camdaniel's ideal body specs, all have nuts at 1-11/16 wide

**backliner** · 12-13-2011, 05:47 PM

Ah.

We need bolt neck jazzers like the early Tacoma.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-13-2011, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by fws6

he is talking the GIBSON country gent which has a 1-3/4 nut

1 3/4"? Cool. That's the spec for Eastman archtops. The necks aren't chunky, though. Several of them come with 16" bodies, which might fit the bill.

**BigMikeinNJ** · 12-13-2011, 06:21 PM

You see the occasional Ibanez Byrdland copy from the 70s pop up. I've owned 3 Byrdlands in my life - a wine red Gibson from '84. And two Ibanez Byrdlands - one had the correct short scale, the other a normal scale neck which I much preferred.

That 17 wide/ 2 1/4 inch deep body is hard to beat. I love my Eastman John Pisano, probably one of the easiest necks to play I have ever owned. Check them out, many for sale used on eBay and some at very reasonable prices. the Eastman John Pisano AR880 comes with a hand wound made in USA Kent Armstrong pickup that is very tasty sounding...

Good luck in your search.

**camdaniel** · 12-13-2011, 06:43 PM

So to avoid further confusion ; you'd want a guitar with a 17" wide, 2 1/4" deep body, and a 25-1/2 scale and a 1-3/4 wide nut

yes, sorry i wasn't specific with the measurements. i defaulted on 17" wide, but 16" might work. so basically, besides the eastman coming close i'm looking at a custom instrument, something like the compellone. i can't say that it's not a little disappointing that my magical perfect guitar doesn't exist in production form, but this has still been informative.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-13-2011, 06:54 PM

Heritage Sweet Sixteen?

Carved top, 25 1/2" scale, 1 11/16" nut, 16" body, 2 3/4" body depth. If the nut was a little wider!

**camdaniel** · 12-13-2011, 08:59 PM

close, nut's still not wide enough. it's a lovely instrument, though.
apparently i exaggerated when i said that gibson's country gentleman has a classical neck, as that would make it around 2". still the 1 3/4" feels substantially wider to me, almost like playing a classical, and i quite prefer it to the 1 11/16".

**backliner** · 12-13-2011, 09:12 PM

Be easier if you wanted a flat-top. Martin's Orchestra Model (OM) has 1&3/4" nut (but 25.5" scale).

Larrivee's seem to use 1&3/4" a lot.

Fortunately there are lots of luthiers out there presently, as the factories don't seem to buck many popular trends when it comes to specs.

**bananafist** · 12-14-2011, 09:09 AM

The current Gretsch CG has a 1 3/4" nut and is better playing and better finished than the Gibson CG, IMO. (I have both).
Campellone sounds like your best bet, he does 16" bodies, 2-3" thick, 1 3/4" nut and superbly built. Me want one!

**oldane** · 12-14-2011, 09:49 AM

Tom Painter will build laminated archtops in various sizes, body depths and neck dimensions to the customers specs. At present he charges $3500 for such an instrument. Delivery 3-4 months from recieving the deposit.

A Sadowky Jim Hall model might also fill the bill.

**Flyin' Brian** · 12-14-2011, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Carved top, 25 1/2" scale, 1 11/16" nut, 16" body, 2 3/4" body depth. If the nut was a little wider!

Heritage will make this guitar exactly how you want it. A 1 3/4" neck is a typical option, as is a chunkier neck carve if you want it. My Sweet 16 also has a 2 1/4" body depth, but I've played the standard depth as well and it's quite comfortable. The big problem I see with the Byrdland is that somebody who wants a big neck is going to have a lot of trouble with its short 23 1/2" scale. If you want a thin 17" body, Heritage will build one for you as well.

Here's mine

**fws6** · 12-14-2011, 10:30 AM

the gretsch website specifically mentions 1-11/16 ?

**cjm** · 12-14-2011, 11:06 AM

Of course, there is another way of looking at the problem: If you do not make an effort to adapt to more or less standard dimensions of jazz boxes, you yourself become "boxed in" and unable to perform if anything happens to your one-off custom built guitar.

I don't know if the story is apocryphal or not, but that is supposedly where George Van Eps found himself when he approached Gretsch. He had been playing a custom built 7 string Epiphone -- Epiphone no longer existed except as a brand name owned by Gibson -- and Van Eps was feeling a bit paranoid about his guitar being stolen or damaged. Gretsch agreed to modify an existing design to 7 strings and put it in limited production as a signature model. Maybe Dan Duffy can weigh in with an accurate account from personal knowledge of the events.

But the point remains, and the opposite approach is that of Wes Montgomery. He was apparently not particularly enamored of the Gibson L5CES, but found it to be good enough, and at that time (not being a collector's item), enough of a "standard jazz guitar" that a suitable replacement L5 could be found within a few hours around most major U.S. metro areas if something happened to his personal guitar.

Something to think about...

**SamBooka** · 12-14-2011, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian

Heritage will make this guitar exactly how you want it. A 1 3/4" neck is a typical option, as is a chunkier neck carve if you want it. My Sweet 16 also has a 2 1/4" body depth, but I've played the standard depth as well and it's quite comfortable. The big problem I see with the Byrdland is that somebody who wants a big neck is going to have a lot of trouble with its short 23 1/2" scale. If you want a thin 17" body, Heritage will build one for you as well.

Here's mine

What is the pickup ??

**stevedenver** · 12-14-2011, 12:28 PM

how about the gibson chet atkins-either the nylon or steel string version-i think its about a s ready made as you might find-

wide classical fretboard, thin-barely semi accoustic and almost a solid body but not quite
excellent amplified

dont know but i presume a 24 3/4 standard gibson scale
no cutaway

im thinking the major issue beside depth is the neck.nut

**camdaniel** · 12-14-2011, 08:40 PM

steve - i think that puts us back to square 1! i like the neck on the gibson chet atkins, it's just that the body is too thin.
i didn't know heritage would customize your order, i'll have to check that out. unfortunately i'd be a bit wary to order something custom in case i wasn't happy with it, i'd much rather try it out in a store first. but, it doesn't exist in nature. i'm not in a rush to buy now actually, i was just curious if there was a chance of brushing into these beast.
cjm i think you make a good point, it's best to be comfortable with the standard or a variety of types, that way you're not hemmed in. that was my complaint about "quigley down under", his gun takes custom ammunition, and he is in the australian outback. how much good is that going to do him in a pinch?

**cjm** · 12-14-2011, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by camdaniel

that was my complaint about "quigley down under", his gun takes custom ammunition, and he is in the australian outback. how much good is that going to do him in a pinch?

Well actually, Bing Bell (played by Dick Shawn) in the movie, Evil Roy Slade is probably more relevant to any discussion where rifles and guitars are both mentioned...

**Flyin' Brian** · 12-14-2011, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by SamBooka

What is the pickup ??

Good eye. It's a Fralin P-92. I like the clarity of the bass strings with single coils and the P-92 is noiseless.

**bananafist** · 12-15-2011, 10:23 AM

FWS6 - perhaps I should have been more specific the Gretsch Country Gentleman 6122-1959 (a close copy of Chets guitar) is 1 3/4", the others are 1 11/16". The 6122-1959 is a great guitar. Mine was one of the first six into the UK in 2003. At that time, before Gretsch got the Atkins name back, it was called the 6122-1959 Nashville Classic.

**stevedenver** · 12-17-2011, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by camdaniel

steve - i think that puts us back to square 1! i like the neck on the gibson chet atkins, it's just that the body is too thin.
i didn't know heritage would customize your order, i'll have to check that out. unfortunately i'd be a bit wary to order something custom in case i wasn't happy with it, i'd much rather try it out in a store first. but, it doesn't exist in nature. i'm not in a rush to buy now actually, i was just curious if there was a chance of brushing into these beast.
cjm i think you make a good point, it's best to be comfortable with the standard or a variety of types, that way you're not hemmed in. that was my complaint about "quigley down under", his gun takes custom ammunition, and he is in the australian outback. how much good is that going to do him in a pinch?

i don't know if i was clear-but i was thinking of a Chet Atkins SST-i think, but only that as i have ony played one once or twice, that with careful choice of strings and EQ, you might find the perfect match-and i was mistaken, they are entirely solid, not semi-and if im not mistaken, they will take either nylon or steel as they use a piezo type pick up i believe

unfortunately they are thin, and theres no changing that aspect-although, you could fashion your very own Gretsch-like Chet Atkins cushion for the back to bring it to a nice width....LOL