Strat- jazzin it up

[rexi]

Hey there!

I have a nice strat which is super nice to play. However i mostly play 335 style guitars and archtops and just cant get along with the "thin" and "hard" sound of the instrument. I´m going to try to meat the thing up and am wondering what to do. I need one solid body guitar for some jobs i get and it would be nice to have it strung with 0.11s since my other guitars have 0.14 and i need one bending machine.

I´ve been playing some jazzmasters and have found them a bit more meaty but still with some single coil clarity so i´m even thinking about putting jazzmaster pickups in my strat.

What do you guys say, has anyone been able to make there strat sound fatter and warmer, what did you do?

Rexi

[fws6]

let me be the first to suggest.... in stead of the Strat maybe find a Telecaster with a HB in the neck position ?

That would be the classic solution to your quest, many jazz ( and jazz / country / rock cross over) players did it like that

[medblues]

You are headed in the right direction but before you go spend time and money on other pickups, try different neck-middle (parallel and series) combinations (I am presuming your strat has single coils and the middle one is reverse wound reverse polarity) and adjusting your pickup heights and rolling off your tone and volume on the guitar. Obviously, you could also add to the fatness by turning up the gain/volume on the amp, EQ'ing for more mids and bass and playing soft and turning the volume down further on your guitar.

Originally Posted by rexi

Hey there!

I have a nice strat which is super nice to play. However i mostly play 335 style guitars and archtops and just cant get along with the "thin" and "hard" sound of the instrument. I´m going to try to meat the thing up and am wondering what to do. I need one solid body guitar for some jobs i get and it would be nice to have it strung with 0.11s since my other guitars have 0.14 and i need one bending machine.

I´ve been playing some jazzmasters and have found them a bit more meaty but still with some single coil clarity so i´m even thinking about putting jazzmaster pickups in my strat.

What do you guys say, has anyone been able to make there strat sound fatter and warmer, what did you do?

Rexi

[oldane]

I have no problem having a "jazz tone" on a Strat with its standard PUs. In fact I find the Strat neck PU is placed just right under the imaginary 24th fret string node, giving a nice and sweet sound Not at all thin and hard. I string it up with flatwounds. 11-50 work fine as well as heavier. I haven't tried thinner than 11. I set the tone on the amp (not much different from my archtops). I only roll back the tone control on the guitar about 25%. I like the sound to have some sparkle. In fact I have never been able to make that "roll-back-the-tone-control" to work for me, it only becomes dark and muddy with very little projection.

With the Strat, I also block the tremolo, but that's another matter which doesn't affect the tone as such.

[robertm2000]

There are pickups that can give you a mellower, more "jazzy" sound than the regular Strat Pickups. I have a Washburn Strat copy that has a Seymour Duncan Cool Rails pickup in it that sounds very similar to a humbucker equipped guitar. Another suggestion would be Pete Biltoft's (Vintage Vibe Guitars, vintagevibeguitars.com) SP-90 Strat sized pickups. These don't sound quite like humbuckers, but they have a full sound a lot like a P-90 that works very well for jazz.

[marcwhy]

Chris Crocco in NYC plays a Strat with 14's!

You said you "need a solidbody for some jobs," so I'm guessing these are non-jazz gigs, so why "jazz it up?"

[cjm]

Originally Posted by rexi

Hey there!

I have a nice strat which is super nice to play. However i mostly play 335 style guitars and archtops and just cant get along with the "thin" and "hard" sound of the instrument. I´m going to try to meat the thing up and am wondering what to do. I need one solid body guitar for some jobs i get and it would be nice to have it strung with 0.11s since my other guitars have 0.14 and i need one bending machine.

I´ve been playing some jazzmasters and have found them a bit more meaty but still with some single coil clarity so i´m even thinking about putting jazzmaster pickups in my strat.

What do you guys say, has anyone been able to make there strat sound fatter and warmer, what did you do?

Rexi

I had a CBS era Strat for a few years during the 1970s, so it has been a while, and maybe my recollection of the tone I got is inaccurate...but using just the neck pickup, guitar tone knob at full treble, and playing though a small (for the time) bass amp, I got what I felt was a decent jazz tone from it.

Couldn't tell you if my life depended on it what model the bass amp was...It was a Yamaha and that's all I remember -- it was not a spectacular amp. The point however is that being voiced for bass it may have helped tame the "thin" and "hard" character you wrote about.

If you own (or have access to) a bass amp, you might try running the Strat through it and see if that "warms" it up a bit more to your liking.

[backliner]

Originally Posted by oldane

I have no problem having a "jazz tone" on a Strat with its standard PUs. In fact I find the Strat neck PU is placed just right under the imaginary 24th fret string node, giving a nice and sweet sound Not at all thin and hard. I string it up with flatwounds. 11-50 work fine as well as heavier. I haven't tried thinner than 11. I set the tone on the amp (not much different from my archtops). I only roll back the tone control on the guitar about 25%. I like the sound to have some sparkle. In fact I have never been able to make that "roll-back-the-tone-control" to work for me, it only becomes dark and muddy with very little projection.

With the Strat, I also block the tremolo, but that's another matter which doesn't affect the tone as such.

Strats are modular. I used to have another pickguard made up with humbuckers and some snap disconnects for the wiring. I also used some GraphTech saddles on the bridge to take some sheen off the high end frequencies.

But I find I can get a decent jazz sound with my present AV '62 RI Fender Strat just stock now. It takes paying attention to the amp settings, but modern amps seem to have plenty of leeway.

[rexi]

Thanks for your comments guys!

"Chris Crocco in NYC plays a Strat with 14's!

You said you "need a solidbody for some jobs," so I'm guessing these are non-jazz gigs, so why "jazz it up?"

Thats a good comment and thats a problem with my post it´s not quite clear what i´m referring to the title says jazz it up but not the post it self.

And the title for the post is probably not the best, i use solid body guitars for all sorts of gigs, blues, motown, funk and so on.. so im not exactly talking about a jazz tone, but a fuller, warmer sound then the stock strat. I´m not a big fan of flatwounds for any of my guitars and usually find rolling of the tone to make the sound muddy more than anything.

Maybe i just don´t know how to play a strat

[jmstritt]

A lot can be cured by the type and guage of string you are using. One quick fix would be to switch to a pure nickel string. With 11s that should give you a MUCH warmer sound. My personal favorites for that are the Sadowsky strings, but you could also go with GHS Nickel Rockers and be like Eric Johnson. ;-)

Or you could just face the inevitable and buy a Telecaster. HAHA, just kidding of course.

[mangotango]

As can be seen from another thread, I started playing jazz on archtops and semi's and fell out of love with my Strat (as related on another thread on this forum); so I sold it. It was a lovely looking guitar, and I used it for blues and rock for ages; but then I started playing jazz full-time, and it sat in its case for 3 years. When it came out, I didn't love it any more, so it's gone to a someone who will give it the attention that it needs.

As for me...time to rationalise the "collection" downwards, and add one item that is choice, methinks.

But, no Strat for jazz with me, no matter what pickups.

[SamBooka]

Originally Posted by mangotango

I fstarted playing jazz on archtops and semi's and fell out of love with my Strat ( It was a lovely looking guitar, and I used it for blues and rock for ages; but then I started playing jazz full-time, and it sat in its case for 3 years. When it came out, I didn't love it any more,.

My story exactly. I have been gasing for a strat but just cant get what i want out of the pickups.

I have more luck with a tele neck pickup.

[Retroman1969]

Same here. I had really nice Strats and really cheapo Strats and experimented a lot with all of them. Alas, once I got used to playing archtops nothing I did to and with my Strats could satisfy me.
They're all gone now.
However, I'd own another Tele in a heartbeat. It was much easier to get a satisfactory big fat well balanced tone out of those with the stock single-coil neck pup.

[SamBooka]

I might have it a little backwards but I have no issues sliding into jazziness with either of these guys.

I have tried maybe 5-10 strats in the past few months and is just ... ok.. lets say that I am not good enough a player to coax a sound that inspires me from these guitars

[Timo]

I play a NASH strat with Thomastik 11 flatwounds, Lindy Fralin pickups, and get a great jazz sound- not at all "quacky' like strats tend to be.
I go back and forth between this guitar and a 335- they're both great.

[Soco]

Strats can vary greatly in terms of sound due to would, hardware, pickup, construction etc. I have a Fender Custom shop Deluxe strat that I have used for several jazz gigs. It is a pretty dark sounding strat. The guitar is pretty heavy, alder body, indian rosewood finger board, Di Marzio Area pickups. I string it with 011's.
A strat with an ash body and maple board will be brighter, but I am sure that can work as well
If you don't feel comfortable using you strat for jazz, I would simply use a different guitar.

[jorgemg1984]

..:: SINGLECOIL.COM - the musicians DIY electronics source for free !!! ::..*****

The Stratocaster "Jazz Switch" Mod - Premier Guitar

Lots of ideas there

[rexi]

Thanks again for your comments and info!

I tried a tele with charlie christian neck pickup yesterday and really liked it, has anyone tried one in a strat?

[Retroman1969]

Originally Posted by rexi

Thanks again for your comments and info!

I tried a tele with charlie christian neck pickup yesterday and really liked it, has anyone tried one in a strat?

I had actually contemplated doing that, and after some research, this was the route I was going to go.....
Charlie Christian Style Pickups
Seemed like a good fit for the application (Strat), and wasn't too horrifying on the price.
Gave up before I got a chance to try it though.

[oldane]

Originally Posted by rexi

Thanks again for your comments and info!

I tried a tele with charlie christian neck pickup yesterday and really liked it, has anyone tried one in a strat?

I have one of Pete Biltofts CC blade Strat PUs in a Strat. Sounds nice, rich and full. That said, I could also get a nice jazz tone with the original Fender Strat neck PU. The CC is more midrangy though. It's more a question of the strings, action and maybe also the pick than the PU.

[Patrick2]

I had Ronaldo Orlandoni of Pastore's Music in Union City NJ (I love the guy and never pass up a chance to give him his props or a plug) make me a "jazz" strat. He made the body in an exact Strat form with the comfort contours and all, used 30 year old swamp ash that he had in his shop since 1965. I asked him for a bound ebony finger board, abalone dot inlays with active EMG pups. It had a fat switch in the end tone control but I 86'd that . . . didn't care for it. In the neck position I roll off the treble about 25%. On my Pro Reverb, I set the bass at 8 and the treble at 4 . . .with just a tad of 'verb. I do the final tweaking with the parametric EQ on my Digitech 944 Chain Reaction. (I know, I'm a dinosaur)

It certainly doesn't sound like my L5 Wesmo . . . but, in a blind tast testing . . . no one would be able to identify it as a "Strat" either. If it was the only guitar I had . . and I had to do a jazz gig . . . it would not only suffice . . . it would shine!!!

[quencho092]

Hello! This is my first post!

I happen to play an American Deluxe Strat with a duncan seth lover in neck position (antiquity 2 surfer singles in middle and bridge), and people who hear me without seeing me play sometimes guess that I'm playing an archtop. It gets a great articulate jazz sound on tap through my bass amp (Acoustic 200H), and makes for a rugged gigging guitar.

Chromes 13's and a PAF on a strat= headache free jazz gigs for me. IF you dig how it plays and feels first and foremost, dial in a fatter more complex tone with a good neck pup.

[Doctor Jeff]

I have a Tele with a Seymour Duncan Alnico 2 at the neck position. It is an awesome pickup that I can't recommend too highly for a warm jazz tone.

I would think about putting a similar SD Alnico 2 in the neck of your
Strat to see how that sounds - easy enough mod.

I would also second what was said above about pure nickel strings - warmer than chromes.

[Soco]

Here is a clip with a strat:
SoundClick artist: Jostein Gulbrandsen - page with MP3 music downloads

[oldane]

Originally Posted by Soco

Here is a clip with a strat:
SoundClick artist: Jostein Gulbrandsen - page with MP3 music downloads

I'm not too crazy about his use of the whammy bar (I have blocked it on my Strat), and I feel that he could have got a mellower tone by fiddling a bit with the tone controls - a bit more bass while keepng the mid and treble as is, perhaps - (and maybe by using heavier flatwound strings?). That is, however, a matter of personal preference. AND it can surely be done with this guitar, the Strat.

[Soco]

Originally Posted by oldane

I'm not too crazy about his use of the whammy bar (I have blocked it on my Strat), and I feel that he could have got a mellower tone by fiddling a bit with the tone controls - a bit more bass while keepng the mid and treble as is, perhaps - (and maybe by using heavier flatwound strings?). That is, however, a matter of personal preference. AND it can surely be done with this guitar, the Strat.

Hi, I was going for a more modern sound-I am having fun with the whammy bar, I think it is a cool effect.I don't understand why people block it, might as well take advantage of it. I am using 011's, I like to be able to bend-I am using this guitar mostly for funk, pop blues.
Do you have any clips using a strat? I'd love to check out your playing and sounds.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by Soco

I think it is a cool effect.I don't understand why people block it, might as well take advantage of it.

"Back in the day," a lot of Stratocasters wouldn't stay in tune because of the whammy bar. I've been told they have been improved...but cannot speak from personal experience with newer production because I haven't played a Strat for roughly 35 years.

As to taking advantage of it, have you ever had the misfortune of being in the house band during open mic night, and have some young gal show up who has been taking voice lessons in a classic/operatic style and who has decided that jazz singing cannot be that different?

I have, and it makes my blood run cold to think about it.

As a guess, I'd say that vibrato is generally regarded as a jazz technique best used sparingly and subtly...at least that's how I regard it...and left hand technique allows for some subtle vibrato without incurring the tuning/mechanical liability of the untethered whammy bar.

[JorgeFon]

I have a MIM Statocaster, I think its 2007, it stays in tune wonderfully, even after using the whammy though I don't really whammy that much anymore at my advanced age (may be I need to try a prescription).

Jazz tone is alright if you roll down on the tone of course, and EQ your amp a little rich, kind of neat sound actually if a bit unorthodox. If I had to take one guitar to a desert island it would have humbuckers but the clarity of single coils is a nice change of pace at times.

[oldane]

Originally Posted by Soco

Hi, I was going for a more modern sound-I am having fun with the whammy bar, I think it is a cool effect.I don't understand why people block it, might as well take advantage of it. I am using 011's, I like to be able to bend-I am using this guitar mostly for funk, pop blues.
Do you have any clips using a strat? I'd love to check out your playing and sounds.

Yeah, and it is a matter of personal preference. I'm an old fart, rooted in the 1950's archtop tone (Tal Farlow, Jimmy Raney etc.). No, sorry, I don't have any sound clips available. However, I can get very close to that 50's tone with a strat. One thing I like about the Strat is the placement of the neck PU - right in my sweet spot under the string node at the imaginary "24th fret". It gives a very sweet and lush tone when the controls are set right. It's not a question of just rolling off treble on the guitar. I like to have a measured amount of bass (it's clearly there, but not boomy) while stille having a fair amount of highs for clarity. Sometimes I use a three band para EQ and fiddle with the center frequency of the mid control to get that singing, slightly hollow sound Jimmy Raney had with his ES150CC in the late 1950s. Apart from the sound, the Strat is also one of the most comfortable guitars I have - very ergonomical. I like the shape so much that a couple of years ago, I put together a Warmoth partscaster with a Strat shape body and a single Vintage Vibe HCC PU in the neck position.

[rexi]

Thanks for your input guys, lots of useful info and many interesting suggestions.

Originally Posted by oldane

I have one of Pete Biltofts CC blade Strat PUs in a Strat. Sounds nice, rich and full. That said, I could also get a nice jazz tone with the original Fender Strat neck PU. The CC is more midrangy though. It's more a question of the strings, action and maybe also the pick than the PU.

I´ve been considering getting those pickups. How are they in terms of hum and noise, similar to regular strat single coils or more?