need some common sense help on new guitar

[stevedenver]

i just received a mckerrihan anastasia, bartonlini floater
great conditoin-3500 delivered on approval

it is a red sunburst D'A type, cutaway, about 2 3/4' deep
nice ebony appointments, intonation is perfect

i have the same type by Triggs
the triggs speaks to me in every way
the mckerriahn only does plugged in-the accoustic voice is not to my liking, it seems tight a n dstifled, but it coudl open up with use-as i dont think it wasplayed much

i played it for a couple of hours and its growing on me , its a nice guitar, very flat fingerboard-

but its not as loud as my triggs -its more middy and not as punchy-has a 'modern' type of sound-rather bright plugged in-probably the bartolini-almost sound somewhat flattop-sustain is ok but typcial of an archtop not as much as a flat top, less than my triggs- i can dial it in to get some 'bloop'-but it actually sounds very accoustic and articulate

heres my question-i wanted a back up and second carved top guitar

this is a quality insturment in every regard, finish and woods and hardware-i look at new prices and it seems i might not get another in the price range of this quality-it plays and sounds great plugged in-

the neck is off -putting-slightly chunky-not a problem per se-but also has a profile that reminds me of mid 70s japanese guitars-

while its not breaking me-its a lot of $$$ not to be smitten, i think,
and of course a lot of $$$ especially this time of year

im thinking its either keep it-forever-or return it while i can-as i think re-sale would be very very difficult

its a fine insturment and im wondering if im more taken with a 'value' than with the guitar

otoh- im not going to find a true carved top at this price i think

a little gentle guidance please

[rpguitar]

"its a lot of $$$ not to be smitten"

Done. Really. Something better will come along, and the hunt is part of the fun.

[bohemian46]

Value is one consideration.. the first being a real connection with the guitar.

Guitars are like busses. miss this one and another will come along.

I would return it.

[Retroman1969]

Yeah, same feeling here.
You said it best... Too much money not to be blown away by it.

[RonD]

There's plenty of guitars in the sea... that being said... we always reminisce about the one that got away...
Sorry, not really helping, am I?

[Jazzman301]

I feel like if you are not totaly excited for A. a new guitar/amp its not right and B. not excited about a $3500 guitar/amp there is a major problem and C. if you spend $3500 on anything you should be pretty happy about it.

Send her back. I am sure there is someone who will give her a good home.

'Mike

[fws6]

return

get this: 1953 Epiphone Triumph Regent > Guitars : Archtop Electric & Acoustic - Elderly Instruments | Gbase.com

then sell the triggs ;-)

[oldane]

The same reply from me.

You seem to try to force yourself to find something positive in the guitar, but it also seems like you - frankly - don't really like it. For $3500, you should REALLY like it.

If you don't like it now, you'll never like it. It will be out on a stand for a while, and you will play it now and then, while you still try to fool yourself. When you don't succeed at that, you will find an excuse to tuck it away in the case in the basement so you don't have to look at that unlucky purchase every day and you'll try to forget it - untill you one of these days need money and get around to selling it with a loss. Believe me, I have been there with an expensive guitar made by a very famous and well reputed luthier.

As for playing in, it may mean less thant we often believe. Chances are that if you don't like the tone now, you never will. There may be a reason the former owner seemingly didn't play it a lot and passed it on.

Actually, it seems the only thing - exept the cosmetics - you really like about it is the amplified tone. But you can also have a great amplified tone for a small fraction of $3500 with say one of the more modest Telecasters - maybe with a PU swap - or a partscaster you put together yourself to your own specs. And for $3500 you can have much more than that with another guitar.

[Jabberwocky]

Steve, I dashed off a PM to you. And then found that to one voice, we all agreed on the one thing: return it. If you don't like its acoustic voice now, you won't like it later.

I think that a used Gibson L5 1934 Reissue with a Kent Armstrong Handmade pick-up will serve you better at $3.5K or thereabouts. Epiphone Broadways can be found at this price. And JG Stewart had a Trenier Excel for sale used for $3995.00 a few months ago so look out for them. These will make you happier.

[rpguitar]

Plus, L-7s are available all day long for $3k or less. eBay is always crawling with them.

[stevedenver]

well first let me thank all of you for your thought
i slept on it-its going to fed ex this am-
i think oldanes got a crystal ball -i think in short time-it will be a step child


the good news-is that for the rather sizable shipping i have had to/will pay
i can speak with authority at least about one McKerrihan-no longer the enigmatic instrument to me


ill save a bit more and think more carefully

this is the first time ive ever ordered a guitar and not been pleased

your kind words and consideration are greatly appreciated-thanks to all of you

(have to say-ill likely never sell my triggs-i really really love to play it-it is as wonderful as my martin D-which i have had for over forty years-the triggs is like a window into me for part of my playing -a real inspiration and joy-not to mention -in my eye-a really beautiful instrument-and sounds good accoustically and amped-it is one of those rare, in my experience, 'lively' instruments-which the McK wasnt)

[coolvinny]

I think you made the right decision, especially if you found the neck uncomfortable.

I think 2.75" is too shallow for great acoustic tone. My archtop is 3.75", which is great acoustically but feedback is hard to tame when amplified.

[stevedenver]

thats good to know Vinny -
i get pretty respectable volume and tone out of the triggs which is barely under 3"-the upside is its really comfortable for a 17"-the downside is it wont be heard over horns or a heavy handed drummer accoustically

i mostly wanted a guitar that i could not only play at home, unamplified-like when i practice and read
and could also use electrically

[cjm]

Originally Posted by stevedenver

heres my question-i wanted a back up and second carved top guitar

To my way of thinking, that's really two different wants/needs.

Barring damage to your primary guitar, wouldn't the back up serve as the axe for situations where you might not want to play a carved archtop guitar? Temperature, feedback, etc.?

And if something does break on your main guitar, the back up is just something you play until the other guitar is repaired.

So, in other words: Plywood.

You want a big archtop? Maybe something along the lines of a Gibson ES-350/Tal Farlow, or maybe the Sadowsky LS-17...or one of a million "clones" that have 17 inch bodies and 25 1/2 inch scales.

Smaller? The Gibson ES-175 launched another 2 million clones.

But if it's not so much a back up as it is GAS, and you really just want to add another carved spruce jazz box to the herd, then I think the advice given by others above is spot on. It's got to be nearly perfect by your standards, or the wallet stays in the pocket, and the guitar goes back to the seller.

[stevedenver]

spoken with the clarity of the oracle at Delphi...
i confess it was a bit of GAS-perhaps i wanted perfect twins....
but...its going back-gotta be happy
have call tag

and FWIW-thank god for corporate shipping accounts-have you any idea how much MORE they charge a walk in? its over twice what you pay on a corporate account

[oldane]

Originally Posted by stevedenver

...its going back-gotta be happy
have call tag

and FWIW-thank god for corporate shipping accounts-have you any idea how much MORE they charge a walk in? its over twice what you pay on a corporate account

I think you made the right decision. Personally, I'm not so nitpicky about neck shapes as I tend to adapt quickly, but for me it's mandatory to like the tone of the instrument. If you don't like your own sound, you can forget about making inspired music.

Yes, I too have experienced the higher prices of the couriers when you don't have a corporate account with them. For that reason, I always have the shipper pay the shipping and include it in his price of the goods. I recently had a guitar shipped over from US with UPS. The shipping cost was around $300 if payed by the shipper and around $500 if I had payed on delivery. To that must be added 25% VAT.

BTW, both of the pictured instruments are very beautiful. Personally, I think think Jim (& Ryan) Triggs deserves more recognition than they have. Jim Triggs may not have introduced new and radical "inventions" but he knows archtop making inside out and his workmanship is on a very high level. The instruments almost always sound great (my sample does). A very nice thing about Triggs - apart from his prices - is that he is so accomodatiing to customer wishes. He'll make almost anything you want as long as it's structurally OK. He'll advice against some of your more crazy ideas, but if you really insist for some reason, then he'll shrug and say OK. I suggested a body depth of 3½" for my Triggs guitar, but he adviced against going over 3 1/4" as the tone might get mushy and less projecting. But, as he said, it was my call, and if that's what I wanted, he'd make it. Of course, I followed his advice and have not had any reason to regret that.

[stevedenver]

you know typically im not too picky at all about necks-i ve got fat ones and thin and medium -but there is a certain soemthing that makes a neck feel like quality and comfortable

i too adjust and have a fairly wide assortment that are just fine-
but

there is something about the feel of those early to mid seventies japanese necks ala yamaha in particular that just put me off-i think that hand is indeed sensitive to very small differences in thickness and contour

the McK guit was a beauty-
the Triggs indeed finer in all ways and perhaps that is what spoiled me

and you know since i made the decision, i feel much happier

id love to see your triggs

[mangotango]

The biggest problem with common sense in relation to guitars is that it only applies in retrospect, i.e. after you bought it. No natter how many people tell you that you're wrong, there's still something inside that tells you that you should go for it, you'll be able to sell it if it doesn't work out.

Hw many duff guitars have I ended up buying because of that? More than I would tell you.

[oldane]

there is something about the feel of those early to mid seventies japanese necks ala yamaha in particular that just put me off-i think that hand is indeed sensitive to very small differences in thickness and contour

I think you are right. Recently I saw a post on another forum - I can't recall where - about the differencies between the Gibson necks of the 1950s ("clubby") and 1961 ("super slim"). There was a drawing of the actual profiles, and the 1950s neck was only a slightly thicker from front to back. However, the 1950s neck had considerably more wood periferically (under the binding), so the overall feel was much more "thick".

id love to see your triggs

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...e/Triggs29.jpg

[stevedenver]

yes it is only in hindhsight-
but i think had i not had to order i would have recognized this right away-i have to admit that from the very few commnets i had read about McK's, i had hoped for soemthing really special...an unknown sleeper work of art......chasing rainbows.......-but as brilliantly observed above, there is a certain thrill to the hunt-not only in acquisition but for me far more in learning ...i simply love instruments, as i used to build lutes and gutiars......i love wood, i love designs, the artisanship, ...yet i do no have a great deal of instruments, nor do i turn them like many, i simply love to play and use them like tools, but also simply love to find things that make me really love playing..and truth is you dont NEED many at all

and ..the triggs stromberg-i have seen your pics before ...amazing...
and ill venture that its a cannon, but perhaps built lighter than an original??? with perhaps a bit more complexity to the tone-triggs impresses me that he builds lighter than the factories

i have read the elmer uilt his guitars rather robustly

i have always loved strombergs-and have always wanted one,

i particularly love the ornate headstock inlay and shape-

i love the blonde g4s in particular-something about the aged finish and sheer size that is appealing to me

your finish is beautiful too, and ill bet Jims finish is jaw dropping-
it is on mine, and i hate orange burst in most cases, but subtle differences can make something entirely different

[mangotango]

Originally Posted by stevedenver

yes it is only in hindhsight-
but i think had i not had to order i would have recognized this right away-i have to admit that from the very few commnets i had read about McK's, i had hoped for soemthing really special...an unknown sleeper work of art......chasing rainbows.......-but as brilliantly observed above, there is a certain thrill to the hunt-not only in acquisition but for me far more in learning ...i simply love instruments, as i used to build lutes and gutiars......i love wood, i love designs, the artisanship, ...yet i do no have a great deal of instruments, nor do i turn them like many, i simply love to play and use them like tools, but also simply love to find things that make me really love playing..and truth is you dont NEED many at all

Agree all that Steve, and yet sometimes don't we all like to have a guitar just for its own sake? I know I do. I have guitars for purposes (acoustic archtop with floater, laminate archtop with set-in pickups, semi-hollow, steel-string electro-acoustic, nylon string electro-classical, acoustic dreadnaught, acoustic resonator and a couple of solid-bodies, one of which I'm "tidying up" to sell) and it sounds like a lot when you list 'em out like that, but only the first one is of any real significance in financial/value terms. (They all have meaning for me, though). The others just scratched an itch that I had (or thought I had) at the time and I decided not to make a large investment unless I hoped was going to be a meaningful acquisition.

Which brings us back to where you were, Steve, and like I say, I understand exactly what you say. Guitars can be wondrous things in their own right, more than the sum of all their parts. Sometimes it's better to travel hopefully than to arrive, and you do believe that "this is going to be great". And sometimes it just isn't, that's all. May be disappointing but it's really not the end of the world.

Sorry if I've been rambling on a bit. Good luck with finding "the one".

[whiskey02]

For whatever it might be worth, a spruce top WILL change after a year or 2 of regular playing. Of course it's best to really dig the sound and just wait for it to get even better.