Cure for boomy sounds

FrankLearns · #1 11-26-2011, 01:02 AM

I am sure that this has been discussed a number of times before but i found the forum results a bit scattered.

So, the problem is the dollowing: after moving to a new home, i have a much larger room for my music equipment (lucky me! My wife is so supportive). All of a sudden my archtops sounds really boomy on the bass strings through my Henricken 112. It is pretty annoying. it also happens with other amplifiers but is most pronounced with the Henricksen.

I am sure that there are cures for that. Obviously decreasing bass on the amp helps and also to not role down the tone so much on the guitar. But both of this also takes away a lot of tone away too and i arrive at a sound that i feel is shallower than it used to be (plus the boominess is not completely gone).

So i was wondering for advice. Some people appear to lower the magnet pole pieces on the bass strings which could also help a bit. What other options do i have to arrive back at the nice full and balanced sound that was there (FYI, the amp doe not stand on the ground - that would be another problem ,right? It is standing on a wood stool)

The forum wisdom is much appreciated!

rpguitar · #2 11-26-2011, 07:05 AM

Different amp location. Different amp height relative to floor. Different amp distance from wall/corner. Sit in a different place. Sit closer to amp. Different amp tone setting. Use of an acoustically isolating foam or cork pad under amp.

Anything BUT touching the guitar's setup. That would be the absolute last thing I'd do.

jorgemg1984 · #3 11-26-2011, 07:14 AM

The Henriksen is voiced dark and the Beta is a dark speaker - so a new speaker would be a good choice.

I can take a lot of boominess of my guitar in the Henriksen with the first two eq buttons but not all of it - my Fromell Shape EQ pedal can do it for me.

Lowering the pole pieces and taking it of the ground are two good ideas to tame that.

Something like a Foam Donut will turn your sound always off-axis and take care of direccionality of the amp - but it's hard to install on the Henriksen and it's also much more notorious on treble.

You could also put foam on that hole in the front of the amp - I think it's there to increase bass response.

Tom Karol · #4 11-26-2011, 07:16 AM

Do not have the back of the amp too close to a wall, especially a corner. Do not have the amp facing directly at an opposite wall. That's all I can think of.

Tom Karol · #5 11-26-2011, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

You could also put foam on that hole in the front of the amp - I think it's there to increase bass response.

Hey, that could be a good idea! It's called a, "Tuned Port," I believe; and it is there to 'enhance' the bass response.
(I also have a Henriksen JazzAmp112, by the way.)

fep · #6 11-26-2011, 08:47 AM

Imo, it's most likely the room. There are probably standing waves creating the boom.

The duck tape and chicken wire way of fixing it is a parametric eq.

The proper way to solve it is to treat the room...

Go to post #17 of this thread:

Acoustical Science/Philosophy Showdown - Cockos Confederated Forums

Hopefully forum member Scott Wilson will chime in, I'm sure he knows a lot more than me on this.

kamlapati · #7 11-26-2011, 12:06 PM

Sounds dumb, but cut the bass? Really, most amps have way more bass than you need.

scottwilson · #8 11-26-2011, 12:57 PM

It's most certainly the room. If you say you liked the amp when it was in a smaller space then you're either hitting a room mode in your new space or the inherent improvement in room response is otherwise giving you too much bass.

As said before, the best immediate way to experiment is with placement... off the floor, and away from corners and walls. Also, try stepping away a little, move yourself around the room.

Treatment is a more expensive solution and is a slippery slope. Could also be that in the old place you had a sofa and the new room is relatively bare? Rug vs no rug? Those all count as acoustic treatments in their own way.

-s

jorgemg1984 · #9 11-26-2011, 01:00 PM

All that may be true - but the Henriksen is a very dark amp, specially with the stock speaker.

oldane · #10 11-27-2011, 03:48 AM

The AI amps have an adjustable low cut filter. Very helpful in boomy rooms. Works better and less intrusive than cutting the bass as the Q of the bass EQ knob on amps most often extends farther up in the frequency range than the booming frequency.

I don't know for sure, but I believe one could use a stand alone variable low cut filter in the FX loop, on amps that don't have one built in (almost all amps, that is). If such filters don't exist ready made, I figure one could have an electronics technician make one from standard parts - after all, it can't be rocket science.

One could alo use a parametric EQ to notch out the booming frequencies. As far as I have been able to find out, there's a few available in pedal form (among them one from Carl Martin), but only one with some Q adjustment ability - the three band Empress ParaEQ. Our forum mate JZucker has a demo video on YouTube.

A narrow banded (with many bands) graphic EQ should also work.

edspyhill01 · #11 11-27-2011, 12:35 PM

How about isolating the amp from the floor? They have sound samples, before & after.

Auralex GRAMMA Amp/Monitor Isolation Riser @ TrueSoundControl.com - Free Shipping

jorgemg1984 · #12 11-27-2011, 12:37 PM

For that money get an EQ pedal...

oldane · #13 11-28-2011, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edspyhill01

How about isolating the amp from the floor? They have sound samples, before & after.

Auralex GRAMMA Amp/Monitor Isolation Riser @ TrueSoundControl.com - Free Shipping

No thanks. As I'm getting older, I strive to cut down on the gears bulk and weigth, not the opposite. An EQ pedal is much smaller and lighter than that floor board.

jorgemg1984 · #14 11-28-2011, 04:12 AM

And effective.

Little Jay · #15 11-28-2011, 05:51 AM

My playing room changes weekly: every gig brings a new room/stage with different acoustics and I totally recognize the problem you are describing. It occurs mostly in rooms with 'hard' surfaces: galleries with lots of glass, hard wooden floors, tiles, etc. I've develloped a number of solutions that work most of the time (but sometimes the room is just too awfull, like that time I played in a venue called "The Glass House", which was basically a glass cube with marble floors... tapping my foot on the floor sounded like a disco beat in there...).

My solutions in playing situations (when you obviously can't change the room):
- putting my amp up on a stool
- tilting the amp backwards (reducing contactsurface with the floor)
- moving the amp away from walls and corners
- placing my guitar bag and/or a coat behind the amp
- re-directing the "sound-beam" coming from the speaker

At home, I would try to dampen the room. (my music room is so packed with stuff that I never have this problem at home)

FrankLearns · #16 11-29-2011, 01:10 AM

Many thanks for all the really helpful replies! I really appreciate this!

The amp is already up on a stool (helped) but - as suspected - it is a room with hardwood floor that is not packed. So i guess moving the amp a bit away from the wall and putting something in front of the wall helps further.

Just one dumm question: what does an Eq pedal buy me that the already elaborate eq on the amp doesn't?

oldane · #17 11-29-2011, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

Just one dumm question: what does an Eq pedal buy me that the already elaborate eq on the amp doesn't?

It's not a dumb question - it's actually a very good question.

With the Henriksen amp it may in fact be possible to notch out the lowest frequencies and only that (it's often those between 100 and 170Hz which causes the boom and feed back) as the Henriksen has a 5- band EQ built in. Check out the center frequency and the band width for the lowest bass EQ knob in the manual (or send Henriksen an e-mail if it's not in the manual).

With the more common 3-band tone controls (bass-middle-treble), the bandwidth of each control (the so called "Q") is too broad and turning down the bass will also cut frequencies higher in the spectrum leading to a thin, nasal and boxy sound. Moreover, some modern amps are more like PA amps, meaning that the Q of each knob is broiader than on older guitar amps, and the center frequency of the mid and treble knobs are higher. That goes for the otherwise populat AI amp, and for guitar many prefer to use a separate EQ with it and set the amps controls flat. A graphic EQ with many narrow bands or a parametric EQ with adjustable Q can notch out the offensive frequencies more presicely and leave the rest alone. I see that illustrated clearly on my AI amp which has an adjustable low cut filter. With that I can cut out precisely the frequencies up to the boom threshold. If I raise the cut frequency just a bit more, the tone thins out and becomes boxy. In theory, I would get a better tone by leaving more of the low frequencies, but boom doesn't sound good, so having the control set to the boom threshold is the best compromize in the given room.

jorgemg1984 · #18 11-29-2011, 03:50 AM

I don't think the EQ on the Henriksen is as revolutionary or elaborate as they claim. Tone stacks worked for lots of people in lots of amps so far.

About the Henriksen the Q is not very big which sometimes is good because you can adjust some small details in your sound and keep the rest as it was before. But I gigged in boomy rooms with it and the controls were not powerfull enough, I wish I had an EQ pedal back then. The treble controls are also weird, I was never able to control the sound of my first two strings properly.

An EQ pedal like the Empress gives you choice of center frequency and Q widht - this means a lot of control over your tone - You can use it for small details or drastic soound changes.

Little Jay · #19 11-29-2011, 10:07 AM

I would put a nice thick carpet, a comfortable sofa and some book cabinets in your musicroom......

pingu · #20 11-29-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Jay

I would put a nice thick carpet, a comfortable sofa and some book cabinets in your musicroom......

yeah thats right
and get the amp a bit closer to you too, and you'll
get a higher ratio of direct/room .......

kawa · #21 11-29-2011, 02:35 PM

Amp Stand
Amazon.com: Ultimate AMP150 Amplifier Stand: Musical Instruments
Ultimate Support: Home -

Very useful and efective for the stage and sounds pursuit at the home.
At the stage, each players feel the own sounds and prevent the too mutch
volume each one.
At the home, check the speakers front real sounds for check the condition or comparison, adj, etc.
(I'm setting two set of AMP150 always)

Use the some wood plate(painted matted black) for small width amps.

oldane · #22 12-01-2011, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Jay

I would put a nice thick carpet, a comfortable sofa and some book cabinets in your musicroom......

Why didn't I think of that alternative - EQ units are so ordinary and boring. Then I would only need a small truck to bring it to the gig and it shouldn't take more the half a day to set up the place. It will also bring some homely coziness to the sometimes sterile interiors of the places of the gigs.

stevedenver · #23 12-02-2011, 03:47 PM

and of course , a decanter for some scotch, and a music stand!!LOL

cosmic gumbo · #24 12-02-2011, 06:23 PM

This is a popular cure for boomy sounds

Little Jay · #25 12-03-2011, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldane

Why didn't I think of that alternative - EQ units are so ordinary and boring. Then I would only need a small truck to bring it to the gig and it shouldn't take more the half a day to set up the place. It will also bring some homely coziness to the sometimes sterile interiors of the places of the gigs.

Well, if drummers can bring their own carpet to the gig, why can't guitarists?

oldane · #26 12-03-2011, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

This is a popular cure for boomy sounds

You mean you mix one part Beano with one part water and smear it onto the speaker cone?

jorgemg1984 · #27 12-05-2011, 05:25 AM

I will ask my father that one, he works in the hi-fi area, let's see what he thinks!

oldane · #28 12-05-2011, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hwqa52

Here’s a short quiz. You have $1,000 to spend on upgrading your stereo or home theater system, what do you buy to get the most bang for your buck in sound quality?

Premium speaker cables
A new receiver
Room acoustic treatments
Hi-definition DVD player.
If you answered anything other than ‘room acoustic treatments’, you might achieve only an incremental improvement in sound quality. If you answered ‘room acoustic treatments’ you would be making a significant upgrade. The reason is simple: The listening room is a critical component in the sound reproduction chain, at least as important as speakers, electronics, sources and cables, yet the listening room is often the most neglected component. When sound waves leave a speaker they interact with the walls, ceiling, floors, furnishings and other surfaces in the room causing room resonances and reflections that color the sound you ultimately hear.

Improving listening room acoustics is an option at home. But if you don't have a dedicated music room, chances are that it depends on what your wife accepts. For gigging musicians, the room acoustics is nearly always beyond control. So in many situations one has to come up with other solutions.