The mythical DeArmond 1100 (pic + clip)

[rpguitar]

So I know a couple of you have one (or more) of these fabled pickups, which some think are the best jazz floaters ever made. I just installed one on my '47 L-5, and here are the results, both visually and aurally.

This mp3 soundclip was recorded by taking the line out of my Clarus 2R head into GarageBand. I'm still practicing the arrangement, so the tune has halting moments, but the slowness helps you hear the sound clearly. The guitar has GHS Silk & Bronze strings on it. If the clip won't stream, just download it.

[jmstritt]

The filters at work won't let me download the file, but man that is some straight up guitar porn! Wowza!

[mark105]

Looks good, sounds even better.

[hot ford coupe]

Oh yeah, now that's the way to go. That guitar and pickup speak the musical truth. That's definitely the traditional sound.

[Patrick2]

Beautiful tone and beautiful guitar. Amazingly clear, articulate and well balanced accross all strings. I might have wanted just a tad more bottom . . but, that's just a personal taste thing. The DeArmond sounds amazing!! Question, I'm wondering why you never went with an ebony bridge and bridge base. Is it because you don't want to upset the karma thing with it's originality? I do prefer an ebony set up over the rose wood . . but, I'm a big believer in karma. I wouldn't mess with it either.

[rpguitar]

Thanks! I'm so glad your opinions are proving that my ears aren't totally wooden, because I think the sound is just the shizzle! Best jazz tone I've ever had. If I were recording for real, I'd add a mic too and blend to taste. But I wanted to isolate the Rhythm Chief sound.

I've had the cheaper FHC pickups before, and was dubious that there would be a big difference, but boy is there ever a difference. I guess it's like the Armstrong licensed pups vs the handmade ones, to reference another thread here on the forum. I guess there had better be, for these 1100s are bloody expensive.

Patrick, the Braz rosewood bridge is original and fits perfectly. I would never mess with it unless it was shot and needed replacement.

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by rpguitar

Thanks! I'm so glad your opinions are proving that my ears aren't totally wooden, because I think the sound is just the shizzle! Best jazz tone I've ever had. If I were recording for real, I'd add a mic too and blend to taste. But I wanted to isolate the Rhythm Chief sound.

I've had the cheaper FHC pickups before, and was dubious that there would be a big difference, but boy is there ever a difference. I guess it's like the Armstrong licensed pups vs the handmade ones, to reference another thread here on the forum. I guess there had better be, for these 1100s are bloody expensive.

Patrick, the Braz rosewood bridge is original and fits perfectly. I would never mess with it unless it was shot and needed replacement.

Agree 100% on the rose wood bridge and base. Also, on the 1100s being "bloody expensive". I don't know if you saw it, but there is a really nice 1984 Guild Artist Award on ebay . . with a DeArmond 1100 pup. It was $4,700. The pup alone is worth 15 to 20% of that price. I was seriously considering it. But, thankfully . . . discipline took control.

[rpguitar]

Dude, I've been stalking these pickups for months! I have seen them all, including the Guild. There's actually an Eastman ER-0 on eBay with a gold 1100 (like, why!?) and he's got a BIN of $1200 for the package. I figure $900 for the pickup alone! He wouldn't separate them, though.

I ruminated on this for a long time. The L-5 has very little clearance for a pup, and the only modern floater that would fit is the KA slimbucker 2D, which has no adjustable poles. It's ironic that 50 years ago, something better was available for such a guitar, but today - with all the options - there is almost nothing. That last 1/32" of clearance makes a huge difference!

[pingu]

yeah someone ought the make these again ......

[cjm]

That's a great combination and sound you've got there.

I've been a little frustrated with the lack of a good modern reproduction of the Rhythm Chief myself.

I found this one online: Floating single coil pickup for archtop guitar :: SWINGMASTER

But since it's from Finland it isn't like I can just jump in the car and drive across the Atlantic to hear one before buying...It's also obviously not a reproduction of the 1100 -- because it lacks the adjustable pole pieces.

I'm curious if anyone here has any experience -- good or bad -- with this builder and this reproduction.

[mr. beaumont]

I have the somewhat less collectible "guitar mike" model, but I completely agree about the tone...it's a one trick pony, but what a trick!

Plugged into a small tube amp, it's suddenly 1959 in my living room.

[D'Aquisto Fan]

Looks and sounds great.

Have you guys checked out Kent A's take on the single coil floater? Joe at archtop.com carries them.

[Stevebol]

Sounds excellent. I'm surprized more Pup makers don't go with that type of housing/support for the pickup. Only need to screw into one side of the neck.

[rpguitar]

As I said, with my particular guitar I agonized over this for many months, because the whole host of modern floaters will not fit under the strings. That's Kent Armstrong, Benedetto, Bartolini, Lawrence, and a few others. The only ones that fit are the DeArmonds. They are thinner than all of the common contemporary pickups. Only the Armstrong 2D is as thin, and it has no adjustable poles. I emailed with Kent but he said that it would be extremely difficult to build one of those balanced for bronze strings. It was a dead end...

So the quest for an 1100, price be damned, began. I did not come across that Finnish builder, unfortunately. His DeArmond 1000 inspired product looks beautiful. I did communicate with a nice Dutch guy who is making a reproduction called the Statler pickup, but even it is not identical - it is 1 mm thicker. No good!

Finally I decided that hey, this is a vintage blonde non-cutaway L-5. Find an 1100 and be done with it. One of the lessons I've learned in life is to get what I really want and save years of pining after other things. So, there you have it. The install was harrowing, but successful. I'm really beyond pleased.

[63Bigsby]

Originally Posted by cjm

That's a great combination and sound you've got there.

I've been a little frustrated with the lack of a good modern reproduction of the Rhythm Chief myself.

I found this one online: Floating single coil pickup for archtop guitar :: SWINGMASTER

But since it's from Finland it isn't like I can just jump in the car and drive across the Atlantic to hear one before buying...It's also obviously not a reproduction of the 1100 -- because it lacks the adjustable pole pieces.

I'm curious if anyone here has any experience -- good or bad -- with this builder and this reproduction.

I have seen and heard them ( I'm in Helsinki Finland ), they're the real deal, both looks and soundwise. I'm actually going to retire ( or at least give a well earned vacation ) my DeArmond with one of them in the near future, mainly because he has the neck rods and my DeArmond has the monkey stick attachement which dampens the acoustic tone of my Epi Emperor quite a bit. A-J Luomaranta, the builder of these PU's is also a heck of a luthier and a real nice guy.

And RPGuitar, that is the tone I want to hear on an arch top! I was pondering whether to take my Epi/DeArmond to the gig tonight or not and after reading your post and the MP3, hell yes I am!!

[cjm]

Originally Posted by 63Bigsby

I have seen and heard them ( I'm in Helsinki Finland ), they're the real deal, both looks and soundwise. I'm actually going to retire ( or at least give a well earned vacation ) my DeArmond with one of them in the near future, mainly because he has the neck rods and my DeArmond has the monkey stick attachement which dampens the acoustic tone of my Epi Emperor quite a bit. A-J Luomaranta, the builder of these PU's is also a heck of a luthier and a real nice guy.

Thanks for the info...I may email him to find out about shipping to the US.

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by rpguitar

As I said, with my particular guitar I agonized over this for many months, because the whole host of modern floaters will not fit under the strings. That's Kent Armstrong, Benedetto, Bartolini, Lawrence, and a few others. The only ones that fit are the DeArmonds. They are thinner than all of the common contemporary pickups. Only the Armstrong 2D is as thin, and it has no adjustable poles. I emailed with Kent but he said that it would be extremely difficult to build one of those balanced for bronze strings. It was a dead end...

So the quest for an 1100, price be damned, began. I did not come across that Finnish builder, unfortunately. His DeArmond 1000 inspired product looks beautiful. I did communicate with a nice Dutch guy who is making a reproduction called the Statler pickup, but even it is not identical - it is 1 mm thicker. No good!

Finally I decided that hey, this is a vintage blonde non-cutaway L-5. Find an 1100 and be done with it. One of the lessons I've learned in life is to get what I really want and save years of pining after other things. So, there you have it. The install was harrowing, but successful. I'm really beyond pleased.

Well, I think your patience was well served. Anything less than the real deal on that gorgeous L5 would have been sacriligeous. It just looks . . . right. It doesn't look like an after market retro fit. It looks like it could have come out of the plant at 225 Parsons Street, Kalamazoo MI 50 years ago with that very same pick up. Also, I expect that your playing time will now increase considerably because that tone is just so inspiring. Good on you man!!!!

[hot ford coupe]

Hey Roger. You made me think of something. When I had a choice between 2 things, the real deal which was expensive and a decent reproduction which sufficed, was less expensive but wasn't the real deal, I usually went with the less expensive thing figuring it would be just the same and I'd save some cash. About 2 months later, I'd be GASsing for the real thing which I should have bought in the first place. Then, I'd wind up buying the real thing anyway and fork out the extra cash which may not have been a good idea. Now I had two items, one I used exclusively and a repro that I stuck in a drawer. My philosophy now? Buying the real deal in the first place is not only the best choice but is a lot less expensive and frustrating. You did the right thing with that incredible L5.

[valriver40]

i have model 1000 that a have owned for over 50 years sitting in a box. maybe i will use it one of these days.

[hot ford coupe]

Originally Posted by 63Bigsby

----- and my DeArmond has the monkey stick attachement which dampens the acoustic tone of my Epi Emperor quite a bit.

Aha!! So that's why my guitar sounds funny. You learn something new every day. I didn't know that the monkey stick will dampen the sound of my archtop. I'd love to stick a neck rod on my guitar but that means I have to put a new hole in a vintage archtop which I've already been warned against.
I also assume that the tension of the strings gets messed up because of the attachment of the stick near the tailpiece. Anybody out there have any more info on the effect of the monkey stick? Thanks in advance.

[rpguitar]

Man, I wish I had known about the Finnish luthier and his short neck rods. That in and of itself was a quest. I ended up getting someone to make one for me (a guy on Ebay who specializes in DAs). I traded an FHC pickup for it.

All I know is that it's nice to look at something and know that you haven't compromised. That feeling of "If only I had..." is so distracting to me, and probably to some of you. Plus I had to cut my lovely repro pickguard and drill those little holes in the neck, and the only way I'd be satisfied that it wasn't a hack job is if the guitar looked period-correct with the modifications.

Anyway, the recording was also provided because we have so many discussions here about floaters being bright/harsh and bronze strings not being fat/warm enough or suitable for using with a mag pickup. I really think this combination proves those things to be only selectively true, and not universal.

[63Bigsby]

Well, the monkey stick clamps on the strings behind the bridge and thus dampens/eliminates the overtones, especially on the old guitars with metal tailpieces ( the Epis with frequensator especially ). The difference in acoustic sound on my -49 Emperor with or without the monkey stick is really significant, so I wanted to go with the neck rod. The monkey stick clamp sort of took away all the natural "reverb effect" that the frequensator tailpiece creates.
The rod of the AJL Swingmasters however, is slightly larger in diameter to the original ones, by 0,5mm or some, so it is not a direct replacement for an original DeArmond.

[kamlapati]

rp, fantastic look and sound man. Glad you respected the heritage of that beautiful guitar and did it right. My '46 has never had a hole drilled in it, but still you are making me daydream about a PU like that!

[D'Aquisto Fan]

I had a beautiful 1957 Super 400 CN, which I sold awhile back. After I got it, I purchased a DeArmond 1100 and had a guitar tech attach the DeArmond to the back of a repro marbelized pickguard with some kind of adhesive product. Instead of using the volume/tone controls on the DeArmond unit, he eliminated that and installed pots and thumb wheels to the back of the pickguard instead. There was no monkey stick. No clunky volume/tone box and most importantly, no holes drilled into the guitar. There was also no single coil hum. I found it to be a very elegant solution that also sounded fantastic.

[hot ford coupe]

Originally Posted by 63Bigsby

Well, the monkey stick clamps on the strings behind the bridge and thus dampens/eliminates the overtones, especially on the old guitars with metal tailpieces ( the Epis with frequensator especially ). The difference in acoustic sound on my -49 Emperor with or without the monkey stick is really significant, so I wanted to go with the neck rod. The monkey stick clamp sort of took away all the natural "reverb effect" that the frequensator tailpiece creates.
The rod of the AJL Swingmasters however, is slightly larger in diameter to the original ones, by 0,5mm or some, so it is not a direct replacement for an original DeArmond.

Thanks for the info Bigsby.
The monkey stick is installed on my 39 D'A which has the 38 New Yorker tailpiece which is as heavy as the stairstep tailpiece. I took the pickup off the guitar today and practiced with it strictly acoustically. Since it's a 16 inch wide axe, it doesn't have the depth that the big Emperor has but it still has that traditional archtop sound. I'm going to continue using the stick because I just don't want to drill any holes into the neck.

[Billnc]

Wonderful sound!

[AlohaJoe]

I prefer the monkey stick. My '48 Epi Broadway is really an acoustic guitar and the DeA is a useful addition for reinforcement on occasion, but is normally lives in the case, not on the guitar. The clamp does dampen overtones and I think it limits sustain as well. It's overall a beautiful sound that's perfect in the right environment. If I was going to leave it on all the time I'd go with the neck rod.

[fws6]

Love the looks, sound, and the nice way you installed it !

a very different (but excellent dearmond 1100 sound in the first post of the other thread http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...od-sounds.html

I have a DA 1100 on my Daquisto, and two spare ones still lying around in the parts box ;-)

Besides the Finnish copy, there's also a dutch builder making a DeArmond 1100 reissue, but with a modern tab to attach underneath the pickguard. Very pricey though. See Welcome to Jazz-Guitar.com then click "Statler Pickups'

[Pierrot]

Both the instrument and the tone are lovely. Congratulations!

:-)

[Retroman1969]

Man, what an incredible sound! That's definitely "it".
Doesn't look half bad either.
Seriously, just beautiful all-around.