Full Sized Archtop - Spruce or Maple?

[Tom Karol]

I'm thinking of getting a 16" x 3" fully-hollow archtop (again). The model in question only comes with 2 set-in humbuckers. (I'd rather have just a neck pickup - probably a floater - but that's not an option on this model.) This model can be acquired with either a solid spruce top or a laminated (?) maple top; there is a price difference, but it's not dramatic. I plan to use this for solo and duo work at low amplified volumes (Henriksen JazzAmp112), but I want it to be pleasing acoustically for home practice. I have a Tele-type, a 335-type, and a Martin 000-28 for other purposes. Pros and Cons?

Forgot to add: I've played the maple version, and I liked it - even acoustically. The spruce-top model - if I can get it - would have to be special ordered.

One more thing: I plan to use 12-52 nickel-steel round-wounds (wound 3rd) on it, at least intitially.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

I'm thinking of getting a 16" x 3" fully-hollow archtop (again). The model in question only comes with 2 set-in humbuckers. (I'd rather have just a neck pickup - probably a floater - but that's not an option on this model.) This model can be acquired with either a solid spruce top or a laminated (?) maple top; there is a price difference, but it's not dramatic. I plan to use this for solo and duo work at low amplified volumes (Henriksen JazzAmp112), but I want it to be pleasing acoustically for home practice. I have a Tele-type, a 335-type, and a Martin 000-28 for other purposes. Pros and Cons?

Forgot to add: I've played the maple version, and I liked it - even acoustically. The spruce-top model - if I can get it - would have to be special ordered.

One more thing: I plan to use 12-52 nickel-steel round-wounds (wound 3rd) on it, at least intitially.

You may have answered your own question: you intend to gig with the guitar amplified and you also liked how the plywood sounded unplugged.

Bearing in mind that only your opinion matters, I would ask...What archtop models, both carved solid wood and plywood, have you played in the past (even for 5 minutes in a shop), and what did you like or dislike about each?

[Tom Karol]

Originally Posted by cjm

Bearing in mind that only your opinion matters, I would ask...What archtop models, both carved solid wood and plywood, have you played in the past (even for 5 minutes in a shop), and what did you like or dislike about each?

Good question - Thanks!

I owned a spruce-topped '66 L4-C with a good floating pickup for 20 years, but I sold it 20 years ago because it was not inspiring acoustically and too bright electrically. (I had .011-.050 Chromes on it.) So, I may be looking for more of an ES-175 type thing. I guess it's time for a trip to The Music Emporium in Lexington, MA - the only place I know of around here with a good selection of archtops. Problem is, I'm afraid I'll fall in love with something I can't afford there.

What about durability and stability? I assume the laminated/pressed maple top will have the edge there, as well as in feedback resistance which probably isn't an issue. And acoustically, pleasing tone is important but volume isn't.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

Good question - Thanks!

I owned a spruce-topped '66 L4-C with a good floating pickup for 20 years, but I sold it 20 years ago because it was not inspiring acoustically and too bright electrically. (I had .011-.050 Chromes on it.) So, I may be looking for more of an ES-175 type thing. I guess it's time for a trip to The Music Emporium in Lexington, MA - the only place I know of around here with a good selection of archtops. Problem is, I'm afraid I'll fall in love with something I can't afford there.

What about durability and stability? I assume the laminated/pressed maple top will have the edge there, as well as in feedback resistance which probably isn't an issue. And acoustically, pleasing tone is important but volume isn't.

I've spent most of my life in the west in an arid steppe climate...not true desert low humidity, but dry. Solid woods can dry and split, usually along the grain, in these conditions, but to be honest, I haven't seen it in guitars less than 50~60 years old...and by no means does it happen to all of them. And neither I, nor the other players I know personally, take any particular precautions, or get obsessive about maintaining humidity...mostly just careful not leave guitars in cars when it's 105 degrees or getting cold in the winter. I really think the fragility issue of solid spruce is overstated (with regard to environmental conditions).

But there is no question that properly laminated wood is more stable, potentially stronger, and almost entirely immune to cracks along the grain, because each layer's grain runs in a different direction. But the plywood guitar is fully as vulnerable to other problems as the carved guitars...kerfing coming loose...neck joint separations. It's rare, but it happens.

I play plywood because I prefer plywood for electric guitars and it's serendipitous that plywood also costs less. By the time you chop holes in carved spruce and mount heavy pickups through the top, you have eliminated most of the acoustic advantages of solid wood construction anyway...but you need to do some serious shopping and let your own hands and ears be your guide.

I suspect you will eventually decide to go with plywood, because you already had an L4 in that size and weren't impressed with its acoustic properties.

But if you just buy a plywood guitar without also trying a bunch of other axes -- carved and plywood -- it's going to bug you for the next 30 years, and you will be constantly suffering from GAS. So, take your time and be VERY critical of everything you pick up to evaluate.

[Patrick2]

I can make recommendations, but I will first reiterate that I am a rep for The Heritage guitar company.

I have just picked up a Heritage H575. I bought it used. It was ordered new with a solid carved, X braced maple top and a floating Kent Armstrong pup. I am just blown away by the acoustical properties of the guitar! The H575 is 16" by 3", as you indicated that you wanted. I wish I knew how to get photos up here on this web site, I'd post a few picture of it.

The solid carved maple top is different in it's tone than a solid carved spruce top. A little more responsive and crisper . . where as the spruce is a little more mellow. I would say that one is better than the other. They're different is all.

I'll try to get a picture up on my Avatar. I do know how to do that. :-)

[cjm]

One other consideration: Scale length. Not so much for tone, but a consideration if you're not really able to quickly adapt between a 24 3/4 and a 25 1/2 inch scale. Some people can, some can't.

If you're a Telecaster fan , you may want to take that into account, because most 16 inch guitars have the shorter 24 3/4 inch scale...and you have to be prepared to live with the scale length for as long as you own the guitar.

[Tom Karol]

Good point. I prefer the sound of the 25.5 inch scale length - maybe it's just me, but I think the bass sounds clearer (maybe due to more tension with a given string gauge) - but I can switch between the two without a problem. Same goes for 1 11/16 or 1 3/4 inch nut widths (feel, not sound); either one is fine.

Keep 'em coming!

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

Good point. I prefer the sound of the 25.5 inch scale length - maybe it's just me, but I think the bass sounds clearer (maybe due to more tension with a given string gauge) - but I can switch between the two without a problem. Same goes for 1 11/16 or 1 3/4 inch nut widths (feel, not sound); either one is fine.

Keep 'em coming!

Tom: the guitar shown in my Avatar is now the H575 I referenced in my prior post. It is 1-11/16" nut width and 24.75 scale length.

[Tom Karol]

A single-pickup H575 would be great but ...

OK, you guys have been great, so I've got to come clean. I'm thinking of selling/trading this:

And getting this:

The spruce top model (left) is only found on the Crafter International website, not on the Crafter USA website, but I think I may be able to snag it through my local dealer. (I know the tailpiece is ugly.) This model has exactly the same great neck as this (which I already own):

All of the above have 25.5 inch scales, 1 11/16 inch nuts, and a 12 inch fingerboard radius.
The only other option right now (if I'm buying something new - not a necessity) since I have almost no cash to throw into the mix is here:
The Loar LH-350-VS Archtop Cutaway - The Music Emporium
It has a 24.75 inch scale, 1 3/4 inch nut, and a 16 inch fingerboard radius (obviously a bit different). I suspect it will just be a weak imitation of my old L4-C, but I have to go check it out. Fortunately, I'm in no hurry. Thanks!

[cjm]

I would not be confident the spruce version of the Crafter is actually solid spruce, whether carved or pressed. In fact, I would wager that it is not.

When manufacturers identify the top as spruce, but do not also specify that it is solid carved wood (or just solid, which usually means it is press formed), then it is usually for a reason: The top is plywood, albeit spruce plywood (at least on the surface layer) and they want you to infer that it is solid wood so that you'll be more quick about pulling out your wallet.

That said, I don't think spruce plywood is a bad thing. The original Gibson ES-350 is a great guitar in my opinion, and some were spruce plywood instead of maple...although I really don't think it matters much. To a considerable degree, plywood is plywood, and the difference between maple, mahogany, and spruce plywood is a lot less significant than the difference between the same three species in a carved top.

I mention this because in your first post you said you were weighing whether to go with the maple plywood version or the solid spruce model available only through their international division.

[Tom Karol]

Another good point! They don't specify that it's solid spruce on the Crafter International website. But I'm thinking that laminated (or whatever) maple may be my preference anyway, because this will be an electric first and an acoustic second.