Kent Armstrong Pickups: Thoughts?

bluewaterpig · #1 11-15-2011, 10:34 PM

I love my Eastman 905, but I don't really love the Kent Armstrong floating pickup that came with it. For me, the tone is wayyy too bright, and it seems like the top 80% of the tone wheel is all the same (this could actually be a wiring issue, I have to have it inspected). I like a pickup that is able to produce the true "natural" acoustic tone when it's fully on, but can go completely dark and everywhere in between.

I was curious to see if anybody else had any thoughts on these pickups.

rpguitar · #2 11-15-2011, 10:57 PM

I have a 904 with the same pickup. My tone control has the same phenomenon; yours is not broken. I'm not as put off by the bright tone, though, as I feel it's a pretty good pickup. It's just missing that extra something. Maybe a little punch. It doesn't compress or "pop" when picked hard, but that's partly a floater phenomenon in general.

I also put bronze strings on my 904, which contributes to the bright tone, which I happen to like on that guitar.

BTW, the Eastman pups are not the handmade Kent Armstrongs, which allegedly sound better, although to be truthful, I have not tried one.

bluewaterpig · #3 11-15-2011, 11:07 PM

Yours sounds the same for like the top 80% of the tone wheel? Mine literally sounds like it isn't changing at all, and then all of a sudden it jumps into darkness. There's no sweet "in between".

rpguitar · #4 11-15-2011, 11:16 PM

Yes, that's right. It's somewhat useless. But I'm not a big tone knob user, personally, so I don't mind much.

BTW, here's mine played electrically:

YouTube Video

(Here's the link in case the embedded YouTube doesn't work.)

AlohaJoe · #5 11-16-2011, 01:32 AM

The pickup on your clip sounds great Roger (and so does your playing)!

I recently replaced a KA licensed floater on a vintage Epi archtop with one of the handmade KAs and the difference was like night and day. The licensed KA I had was waaay too bright for my dark taste, whereas the handmade has a sweet, round warmth and great balance. There's a price difference of course, but for me it's been well worth it. If anybody wants to try the licensed floater I replaced (pg mount/chrome), mine's dirt cheap.

Stevebol · #6 11-16-2011, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

I love my Eastman 905, but I don't really love the Kent Armstrong floating pickup that came with it. For me, the tone is wayyy too bright, and it seems like the top 80% of the tone wheel is all the same (this could actually be a wiring issue, I have to have it inspected). I like a pickup that is able to produce the true "natural" acoustic tone when it's fully on, but can go completely dark and everywhere in between.

I was curious to see if anybody else had any thoughts on these pickups.

Sounds like you need to change the value of the tone cap. You want a value that will make the pot more linear. It's an easy fix for a tech.

TruthHertz · #7 11-16-2011, 03:38 AM

Maybe a 250k or less audio taper pot would help the response, but as far as Kent Armstrong pickups, I agree totally. They sound flat to me, yes they can be doctored at the amp end but as a basic pickup straight off, they leave much to be desired to my ear. I switched to a Benedetto floater, made by Seymour Duncan by contract, and it's a different story altogether. Balanced throughout the spectrum and very inspiring to play with. It sounds and feels like the instrument when unamplified, and that's saying a lot.
David

BigMikeinNJ · #8 11-16-2011, 05:58 AM

What RPG said:

"BTW, the Eastman pups are not the handmade Kent Armstrongs, which allegedly sound better, although to be truthful, I have not tried one."

I have two Eastmans, a really early 810 prototype and a John Pisano - the guy I bought the prototype from had an OLD hand wound Kent Armstrong pickup - one of the "Benedetto" ones, and I had that installed on my 810, along with all new wiring and volume/tone knobs. I LIKE having a tone knob on my guitar.

The John Pisano also sports a hand wound by Kent Armstrong pickup, used on that model. Both these Kent Armstrong made in the USA pickups are far superior to what Eastman is selling on most of their guitars.

That is not a knock on Eastman, they just don't "get it" yet that the pickups, its and wiring should be really high end CTS quality stuff... BUT what they have going for them is amazing guitars at really good price points. So go find a good deal on a new or used Eastman, play it and then when you got a couple hundred dollars saved up install a Kent Armstrong made in the USA high quality pickup, and get the wiring replaced. The difference is night & day, well worth the trouble and "expense". You still come out way ahead financially.

I love the tone I get off that 810/Benedetto pickup, the John Pisano is so effortless to play - never thought I'd go for a 16 inch body but it's really comfortable...

Good luck with your search for the perfect tone.

Jim Soloway · #9 11-16-2011, 09:40 AM

I've used Kents hand wound pickups in several of our guitars. They are not even remotely similar to the licensed models. It's not a huge expense to get one of the pickups that Kent makes himself and I'm sure the difference wold be worth the investment. He builds them one at a time and will gladly taylor the pickup to your specific needs.

I would also stress that no traditional magnetic pickup is going to produce the natural tone of an archtop. That's just not what they do. Magnetic pickups color tone significantly. If you want a lot more of that natural acoustic tone, I would suggest getting a piezo pickup that you can blend with the mag pickup.

eddy b. · #10 11-16-2011, 10:27 AM

I had a licensed Armstrong Floater installed in my Korean Gretsch Synchromatic(laminate) and I have to say it turned an unusable acoustic jazz guitar into an excellent electric jazz guitar for trad jazz/swing style rhythm playing and leads. It really brightened the sound... but the guitar needed that. I think the laminate top really inhibited the projection and the volume of the guitar in a pure acoustic setting...my Gitane D500 is so much LOUDER than any acoustic I've ever used. So now I use the Gretsch when I know an amp is going to be needed and my Heritage 575 is too modern sounding...ah the choices I get to make

burchyk · #11 11-18-2011, 12:11 AM

Did not try the licensed KA's, but I love his handmade floating adjustable PAF. Replaced a cheap floater with it which was always either bright or muddy.

oldane · #12 11-18-2011, 02:18 AM

I have an 15 years old Benedetto Fratello with a floating Benedetto PU which at that time was made by Kent Armstrong. That PU is also bright and picks up all kinds of irregualar frequencies which makes the tone rather harsh and to a degree uncontrollable by the amps controls. As I see it, it's partly due to the smaller size of the PU, partly due to the mounting on the pickguard (which may generate those irregular frequencies), and partly due to the deliberately chosen characteristics of the PU.

I have tried other guitars with floating PUs and they have the same basic character as mine, so I have made up my mind that floating PUs are not for me - I much prefer built in PUs. As a consequence, I use the Benedetto for acoustic playing only and use other instruments for amplified playing (at present a Painter P-350 and a home brewed partscaster).

A one time Kenny Burrell used a D'Angelico (the real thing, not the modern namesake) with a floating D'Armond 1100. I must say I like his sound much less on the records where that was used (for example "Ellington is forever") than on the records where he used a built in PU (for example "Introducing Kenny Burrell" and "Midnight Blue").

Right now, I have an AI Corus+ amp on the way to me, and I will of course give the Benedetto a try with that amp, but the sound will have to be a whole lot different before I will play the Benedetto amplified again.

jorgemg1984 · #13 11-18-2011, 03:58 AM

Has anyone checked Peter Bernstein Zeidler? He has a Classic 57 mounted as a floating humbucker... That could be a great solution! I was talking with my luthier the other day abound building an archtop and he was also saying he could put a BK Stormy Monday as a floating pickup even being a regular-sized humbucker.

Patrick2 · #14 11-18-2011, 09:27 AM

My Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Award and my 2 Unity American Classic guitars both have hand wound KA pups. I love them and wouldn't change them for the world. The guitar currently featured in my Avatar is the 17" Unity American Classic.

Stevebol · #15 11-19-2011, 12:31 AM

I'm finally making some minor adjustments to the archtop I put Kent's floating mini-humbucker on. The sound is everything I'd hoped it would be. Very transparent and responsive to changes in volume and tone controls on the guitar and amp.
I thought I would have trouble with string balance and feedback but that's under control with a change to flat-wounds (first time trying them and love em!) and fiddling with the rosewood bridge which plays a huge part.
Big thumbs up for KA hand-wounds but I thought I'd try something different on my other archtop that's in pieces right now. Bryan at BG pups is making me a Pure 90.

Stevebol · #16 11-19-2011, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddy b.

I had a licensed Armstrong Floater installed in my Korean Gretsch Synchromatic(laminate) and I have to say it turned an unusable acoustic jazz guitar into an excellent electric jazz guitar for trad jazz/swing style rhythm playing and leads. It really brightened the sound... but the guitar needed that. I think the laminate top really inhibited the projection and the volume of the guitar in a pure acoustic setting...my Gitane D500 is so much LOUDER than any acoustic I've ever used. So now I use the Gretsch when I know an amp is going to be needed and my Heritage 575 is too modern sounding...ah the choices I get to make

I have a D500 too. It's an interesting contrast. The gypsy guitars are made to be played argessively and regular archtops need a delicate touch. Nice to have both.

mambosun · #17 11-19-2011, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Has anyone checked Peter Bernstein Zeidler? He has a Classic 57 mounted as a floating humbucker... That could be a great solution! I was talking with my luthier the other day abound building an archtop and he was also saying he could put a BK Stormy Monday as a floating pickup even being a regular-sized humbucker.

Yeah, that's really sounds interesting, I'll soon ask my luthier too about making this kind of conversion!
Today I have a Bartolini floater which sounds very good but maybe a little to "hifi" for me, it lack's the last bit of velvety I would love to have...
And it doesn"t require to butcher the carved top,hence is a fully reversible solution.

jorgemg1984 · #18 11-19-2011, 06:24 AM

I think it's a great solution - I don't think minibuckers or floating KA are able to reach the sound of a great humbucker like a BK Stormy Monday. But I do love PAFs!

Opening a hole in a carved top is always a tough decision - if the work is well done I don't think it will change amplified tone, which will be enhanced by a better pickup. But the amplified tone and the value of the guitar will probably suffer...

Bernstein's solution is indeed the best (actually he bought the guitar used and already came with this solution)

mambosun · #19 11-19-2011, 07:07 PM

Classic 57 and Bare Knuckle apart, which other good neck HB references might serious if not better alternatives in terms of tone and quality vs price?
In some videos, the Gibson seems to be rather bright sounding.

tonedeaf · #20 11-19-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

I love my Eastman 905, but I don't really love the Kent Armstrong floating pickup that came with it. For me, the tone is wayyy too bright, and it seems like the top 80% of the tone wheel is all the same (this could actually be a wiring issue, I have to have it inspected). I like a pickup that is able to produce the true "natural" acoustic tone when it's fully on, but can go completely dark and everywhere in between.

I was curious to see if anybody else had any thoughts on these pickups.

I had the same experience. I found the licensed KA to be very poorly balanced and it made the guitar very difficult to play (spent too much time worrying about pick control trying to compensate for the PU). I also found the tone knob useless.

I replaced it with a Benedetto 6. Huge difference -- this is a very well balanced PU and I found I could play the guitar with much more subtlety.

That said, I think that the KA had a lot more soul. When I put the Benedetto in I got a new pickguard and all new electronics so that I didn't have to strip the old pickguard, which I am now going to put a real KA on. I am glad to hear that someone else has done this and was very happy with the change. I will let you know what I find.

RuffRider · #21 11-20-2011, 10:46 AM

Does anyone know if the Kent Armstrong pickups that "W D Music" sells are the real deal or - are they the Licensed pickups?

AlohaJoe · #22 11-20-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuffRider

Does anyone know if the Kent Armstrong pickups that "W D Music" sells are the real deal or - are they the Licensed pickups?

W D sells licensed KAs. Handmade KAs are available here.

RuffRider · #23 11-20-2011, 02:52 PM

Thanks AlohaJoe - that's a good website!

Elias Graves · #24 11-22-2011, 08:00 AM

I had the import Armstrong floater on my 5th Avenue. Dark, muddy, woofy, no balance. I yanked it out.

EG

stevedenver · #25 11-22-2011, 10:10 AM

ive got an old KA Johnny Smithwith adjustable poles
it is clear but not too bright-the adjustable poles really help getting the sound adjusted not only to the guitars character but also to the strings

as well as playing style ie pick and or fingers

its a great pick up

PascalD · #26 11-30-2011, 01:51 PM

Not sure what Kent Amstrong pickup you have on your Eastman, but we have an Elferink archtop with a KA pickup in stock and I made some sound samples Here : Exxbox-guitars Elferink Solo

And it sound smooth, not bright. Maybe you need to experiment with the cps on the tone control... Or maybe it's not the same pickup....

bluewaterpig · #27 03-12-2012, 05:45 PM

So basically, the licensed Kent Armstrongs (agreed to be not too great) are found on guitars sold through regular retailers, and the handmade Kents (agreed to sound much better) are purchased privately? Somebody please confirm this...

I bought my Eastman 905ce at Guitars n' Jazz, so I'm assuming the floating mini humbucker is licensed and not handmade?

jasonc · #28 03-12-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Has anyone checked Peter Bernstein Zeidler? He has a Classic 57 mounted as a floating humbucker... That could be a great solution! I was talking with my luthier the other day abound building an archtop and he was also saying he could put a BK Stormy Monday as a floating pickup even being a regular-sized humbucker.

Is Peter's pickup really just a modified Gibson '57? I was going to do something similar on the archtop I'm making currently (floating full-sized humbucker with cover). I was going to have Pete Biltoft make something for me....probably still will, but I am curious about Pete's Zeidler. I know a few people who have played it and they all say it's one amazing guitar.

tonedeaf · #29 03-12-2012, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

So basically, the licensed Kent Armstrongs (agreed to be not too great) are found on guitars sold through regular retailers, and the handmade Kents (agreed to sound much better) are purchased privately? Somebody please confirm this...

I bought my Eastman 905ce at Guitars n' Jazz, so I'm assuming the floating mini humbucker is licensed and not handmade?

The licensed KAs do seem to be pretty poor -- this is most likely what you have. (I was looking at some of the new model Eastmans and it looks like they have gotten the message and are starting to use real KAs.)

There are actually two series of made in USA KAs: His standard production items and his hand-wound units. Both of these can be ordered at Welcome to Wdmusic.com. You can also request custom mods to the handwounds.

Jazzman301 · #30 03-12-2012, 09:41 PM

Another +1 for the hand made KA stuff. I have a hand made KA floating PAF with coil tap and I LOVE this pickup. So versatile. Warm, fat and round and also can great single coil tones. You can't go wrong.

Kent Armstrong Adjustable Built-In PAF (Handmade)

Michael is great to deal with and has great pricing.

'Mike