Archtops in Europe, Moffa and Elferink

soulstone · #1 11-15-2011, 02:39 PM

Does anyone has experience with those guitars? How do they compare?

fws6 · #2 11-15-2011, 03:27 PM

thats a bit like comparing apples and oranges; two extremely different builders you mention there

Elferrink builds a high quality and traditional looking guitar. Archtops with floating pickups only, in the style of the Gibson L5/Super 400 or DAngelico/Daquisto. All carved construction, very well playing, whilst relatively moderate in price. All guitars are custom built to your own specs within 3000-4000 euro price range. I think he compares best the philosophy of what Stephan Sonntag in Germany, or Mark Campellone in the US are doing; i.e. building the highest possible quality guitar at a pricepoint for a working jazz player.

Moffa builds everything archtops semis flattops solidbodies. Very much his own in style and cosmetics. On his website are many examples of bridge , neck joint etc all very much out of the ordinary. Some models are rather traditional but others are pretty wild in green or purple colors, assymetric bodies, etc. Price level is (much) higher as well. But completely different in all aspects from the Elferink's. I have never played one but the soundbits on his site are very nice. Maybe a bit more southern european style as I can think of compaprable builders like Josep Melo in Barcelona etc ?

I guess the first question would be, what are you looking for ?

soulstone · #3 11-15-2011, 05:25 PM

thank you for your reply,

Have you played an Elferink? How could you rate the construction quality and the acoustical/sound characteristics?

In general, Elferink and Moffa guitars are as you said, two extremes, but when comparing the Tonemaster and Maestro models of each builder (these are the ones that I'm interested for) I think they are more similar than different.

So to rephrase my question, putting the cosmetics aside, which of these two luthiers will build me a 16-17' Archtop guitar with the best acoustic qualities, construction and playability?

Or, if you think that both guitars are equally good, whats the "signature" in sound, or other aspect that would help me decide to get one or the other, again without thinking about the cosmetics or price

rpguitar · #4 11-15-2011, 06:48 PM

If price doesn't matter, and both are top builders with great reputations for excellent instruments, and you also ignore aesthetics... I think you have to defer to two things: Your personal dealings with the builders, and your emotions. Nobody else can possibly answer your question, really.

fws6 · #5 11-16-2011, 02:49 AM

>Have you played an Elferink?

Yes several; visited the shop too, luthier is the most helpful / friendly person you wll ever meet

>How could you rate the construction quality

first rate

>and the acoustical/sound characteristics

There are plenty of vids on youtube on the tonemaster and other similar Elferink's acoustically

Daniele Cavallo with Elferink archtop.wmv - YouTube
Elferink 16" Artchtop - YouTube

and amplified

Archtop Elferink sample 1 - YouTube (from a member here)
Elferink Archtop.wmv - YouTube
Trying out a new Excalibur from Elferink Guitars - YouTube

konstantine · #6 11-18-2011, 02:13 AM

I havent played either one, but I have an Elfrink Tonemaster on order. All I can say is that Frans is extremelly helpful.

David B · #7 11-18-2011, 05:15 AM

I have a Moffa Dark Lorraine on order, due summer 2012. I paid a deposit in January. The waiting list then was 12 months, plus 3-4 months' build time. I placed my order just before there was an increase in the costs of most Moffa models.

Nico Moffa has been a pleasure to correspond with and I am really looking to receiving the guitar.

I have briefly tried Hilmar Jensson's Moffa and seen both him and Kurt Rosenwinkel playing their Moffas live. Wonderful sounding guitars.

Some Moffa clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t7ZLYdLPuw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=komcDL7ITbc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR1_Gi6z2Yc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZyHfX3dye8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI64FB0XgOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9H9CGbjCU

fws6 · #8 11-18-2011, 05:50 AM

I think we have to come to consensus here

My proposal; you will need to order one of each

David B · #9 11-18-2011, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fws6

I think we have to come to consensus here

My proposal; you will need to order one of each

I like that idea!

marcwhy · #10 11-18-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fws6

I think we have to come to consensus here

My proposal; you will need to order one of each

Yep, another vote for this one!

If i were choosing between these two builders, though, I'd have to pick Moffa ..... because my wife is Sicilian, too!

konstantine · #11 11-19-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fws6

I think we have to come to consensus here

My proposal; you will need to order one of each

thats a compromise though, one of those I would love to have!!!

Hjalmiz · #12 11-29-2011, 01:49 PM

HI

Moffas and elferinks are totaly different. I own a Eleferink and have played a Moffa Mary Ann a bit. I think the Moffas are all 24" sclaes while the Elferink is 25.5" . Maybe u can get att longer scaled moffa, but i dont know, If u got any question about the guitars just ask and i`ll try to answer. /P
This is My Elferink played acoustic BTW. (dont mind the bad sound and vierd playing )

Film 2011-11-29 kl. 20.33.mov - YouTube

konstantine · #13 11-30-2011, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hjalmiz

HI

Moffas and elferinks are totaly different. I own a Eleferink and have played a Moffa Mary Ann a bit. I think the Moffas are all 24" sclaes while the Elferink is 25.5" . Maybe u can get att longer scaled moffa, but i dont know, If u got any question about the guitars just ask and i`ll try to answer. /P
This is My Elferink played acoustic BTW. (dont mind the bad sound and vierd playing )

Film 2011-11-29 kl. 20.33.mov - YouTube

The sound of your clip and the playing is great!! Thanks for sharing. I still have to wait about 10 months for Frans to build my Tonemaster. The waiting is painfull and I prefer not to think about it.

I hope that I will soon be able to order a Moffa Maryan as well, but, when you say they are totally different, what do you mean?

I'm really interested and the OP seems to have abandoned the thread.

Konstantine

Hjalmiz · #14 11-30-2011, 12:59 PM

HI
Thanx so much dude.
Yeah u have to totaly forget all about the guitar u`r waiting for. I sucks but once u get it then its all worth it.

About the guitars then.

I´ve tried 2 Moffas acctually. One mary Ann and one Maestro. They are verry different from eachother. The Mary Ann had some kind of centerblock to cut feedback and had a somewhat modern flair to it. It was a 24.7 " and had a sweet tone to it. A bit smaller sounding than a classic archtop and a maller guitar all together. The Maestro was more classic. It had a big sound that was leaning a bit to the acoustic steelstring side tonewise. A well defined sound and wonderfull feel to it. I think the top of the Maestro was relativly thin.

The only elferink ive tried is my one. Its actually a mix between a Tonemaster and a excalibur. Frans makes some of his tops just a bit thicker than most to prevent feedback. The accoustic sound is rich and warm but does not have the punsh of the Moffa ( compered to the Maestro). The whole vibe of the Elferink is also more classic with inlays and stuff inspired by the old jazz guitars but it also feels modern.

In terms of a clasic kind of archtop i dont think you would get something better if u got a maestro but a Mary Ann is something else. Like a electric modern style guitar realy( u can also get it without center block and then i its maybe totaly different?? ). I realy like the Moffas, but u can get 2 elferinks for the price of one Moffa. My advice would be to realy get to know the elferink when u get it, and it also opens up a lot when i setles in during the first year. Then u can start to get a feel for whats missing or not. /P

As for the elferink, it likes heavy strings because of the thicker top. The neck is robust so it lets u have super low action without loosing tone.

PascalD · #15 11-30-2011, 01:30 PM

Soulstone

I can only comment on Elferink. I just received an fully carved Elferink archtop. This guitars is based on the Tonemaster, but with our specs. You can find pictures and sound samples on our site: Exxbox Guitars : Elferink Solo

In my opinion, it is one of the best sounding archtops I tried. This particular guitar has a Ken Amstrong Humbucker (instead of the single coil Elferink one), Pyramid flatwounds. It is a dream: both plugged in and acoustically. Even if the body is "only" 16.5" wide, it does have a nice, fat and smooth acoustic sound. And affordable too (for a hand made, tuned , unique instrument, that is...)
If you're around Belgium one day, let me know. You're welcome to try it.

Pascal

Pascal

zirenius · #16 11-30-2011, 03:15 PM

I also only played an Elferink guitar so far. I got it in September 2010 and have to say: It's beautiful tone wise and the action is amazing. It has become my main instrument for jazz. I have the Tonemaster model with a couple of custom specs.

If you want some impressions:
Clifford - YouTube

All the best,
Sebastian

konstantine · #17 11-30-2011, 04:27 PM

Great tone and top playing!!! Thanks for sharring this video!!

Although you dont make my waiting for the Elferink any easier.

May I ask what are the custom specs?

Konstantine

zirenius · #18 12-01-2011, 04:01 PM

Tank you very much!

In short: I wanted the Tonemaster Body to be Lager in depth and I had Frans install an additional microphone (his idea) for more variety in sound.

So I really wanted him to stress and develop the acoustic richness of the guitar. He succeeded. Still Love the instrument...!

Take care,
Sebastian

Philco · #19 12-01-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hjalmiz

HI

Moffas and elferinks are totaly different. I own a Eleferink and have played a Moffa Mary Ann a bit. I think the Moffas are all 24" sclaes while the Elferink is 25.5" . Maybe u can get att longer scaled moffa, but i dont know, If u got any question about the guitars just ask and i`ll try to answer. /P
This is My Elferink played acoustic BTW. (dont mind the bad sound and vierd playing )

Film 2011-11-29 kl. 20.33.mov - YouTube

Really dig your playing. Great feel!
That guitar sounds awesome. It sounds "tight" like you could really thump it and it would respond.
It also sounds even up and down the board and across the strings.
When you were playing the middle strings I was thinking "as soon as he goes up on the E and B string it's gonna thin out"......but it didn't. Just stayed fat and warm to defy me!
I know it will sound great plugged in.
What strings and gauge do you have on it? They don't sound like flat wound but I can't hear any string squeak of rounds.

Philco · #20 12-01-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zirenius

I also only played an Elferink guitar so far. I got it in September 2010 and have to say: It's beautiful tone wise and the action is amazing. It has become my main instrument for jazz. I have the Tonemaster model with a couple of custom specs.

If you want some impressions:
Clifford - YouTube

All the best,
Sebastian

I enjoyed that transcription of Clifford. Great playing and tone, you make it look effortless.
Thanks for posting.

konstantine · #21 12-02-2011, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hjalmiz

HI

The only elferink ive tried is my one. Its actually a mix between a Tonemaster and a excalibur. Frans makes some of his tops just a bit thicker than most to prevent feedback. The accoustic sound is rich and warm but does not have the punsh of the Moffa ( compered to the Maestro). The whole vibe of the Elferink is also more classic with inlays and stuff inspired by the old jazz guitars but it also feels modern.

In terms of a clasic kind of archtop i dont think you would get something better if u got a maestro but a Mary Ann is something else. Like a electric modern style guitar realy( u can also get it without center block and then i its maybe totaly different?? ). I realy like the Moffas, but u can get 2 elferinks for the price of one Moffa. My advice would be to realy get to know the elferink when u get it, and it also opens up a lot when i setles in during the first year. Then u can start to get a feel for whats missing or not. /P

As for the elferink, it likes heavy strings because of the thicker top. The neck is robust so it lets u have super low action without loosing tone.

Thanks for the detailed reply and advice!!

I hope tis OK to ask a few questions.

What specs did you got from the tonemaster and what from the exalicur?

Is the top of your guitar on the thick or on the thin side?

What's the pickup in there? Could you also post an amplified sample?

Konstantine