I think I've been converted...

Retroman1969 · #1 11-14-2011, 09:41 AM

...From solids to full hollow archtops.

When I started, I loved and heavily collected various solid-body guitars, but once I bought a used archtop cheap about a year ago it just all fell into place and I sold everything else. I now have two archtops and no matter how hard I have tried to get back into another solid body guitar I can't dig them anymore. Strats, Teles, Jazzmaster, Les Paul, SG, etc...
Those should be more comfortable and easier to play, but they now feel awkward, and when I put one down and pick up another bulky archie, it just rests perfectly in my hands, and the mellow-yet-lively organic sounds that are so responsive to the touch just "does it" for me, and the solids sound cold.

I know that most people here have Teles, LPs, etc, that they love, but has anyone else had this same total change of heart/preference?

henry b · #2 11-14-2011, 09:45 AM

May the Force be with you .enjoy.

rpguitar · #3 11-14-2011, 09:46 AM

I have only a couple of solid bodies left. In general, I now have a strong bias towards needing some element of acoustic quality in any guitar I play. Doesn't have to be fully hollow. Can be a semi like the 335 or even chambered with no sound holes. But a pure slab of solid wood does less for me than just about anything else. Mind you, this is mostly aesthetic and psychological, I'll admit that readily. Still, it is what it is.

cjm · #4 11-14-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroman1969

Those should be more comfortable and easier to play...

In my opinion, that's an idea that came from the notion that a really light low action is truly an aid to playing.

Most slabs and semi-hollows give me the odd feeling of playing an amplifier by remote control.

Quote:

I know that most people here have Teles, LPs, etc, that they love...

Not all of us, though. Other than bass guitars (as a practical necessity for some gigs), I haven't had a slab since the 1970's. My last one was a Strat...wasn't a bad guitar...but I used it as partial trade for a L5CES and never regretted seeing it go.

Quote:

...but has anyone else had this same total change of heart/preference?

There are approximately 7,000,000,000 people on earth. Out of this fairly large population, I suspect several have had the same change of heart you have.

jmstritt · #5 11-14-2011, 10:48 AM

I have. I tried archtops years ago and it just didn't do it for me. I stuck primarily with Teles and Semis but after picking up another archie a couple months ago I think I can a full convert back to the hollow world!

AlohaJoe · #6 11-14-2011, 03:25 PM

I'm ready to sell my last solid body guitar (a '62 Gibson Melody Maker), a sweet guitar w great pickups and a near-perfect neck (for me). I never play it. A thinline (fully hollow) vintage Guild Starfire has replaced it. There's just a quality to the hollow-body sound that does it for me.

ESCC · #7 11-14-2011, 04:00 PM

I couldn't agree more, I had the same feeling yesterday. Now, today, if the the Strat, Tele or LP speak to me . . . it's not easy being fickel but it is fun.

Retroman1969 · #8 11-14-2011, 06:09 PM

Thanks for the stories from others who have had the same experience.

I never thought a fat hollow body would be more comfortable and intuitive to play than a thin contoured solid, but there you go.
"Feeling like playing an amp by remote control" is a good way to put the experience of playing a solid-body guitar now. That's just what it feels like without the acoustic overtones in my ear and the vibrating of the big hollow box against my side.

jorgemg1984 · #9 11-14-2011, 06:38 PM

I have a beautiful Gibson Les Paul Special with P90 from 1979 that I never play... I am just too used to archtops! I can play acoustic guitars and 335 but Les Pauls or Teles are really different... I mean I can play chords and simple melodies but I play much faster on the archtop.

Oh and other big difference is string gauge... I am used to a 1.5 pick hitting a 015-056 gauge - when I play a Tele or a Les Paul with 010 it just sounds terrible!

pingu · #10 11-14-2011, 07:22 PM

that happened to me too
don't play my 335 any more it just goes twang twang
dont like it ......
my cheap ibz archtop goes thunk thunk ...... love it

Patrick2 · #11 11-14-2011, 08:19 PM

I couldn't possibly be without my solid bodies. I'm an ABB fanatic! Jessica, One Way Out, South Bound, Blue Skies, etc., etc., . . . I just wouldn't be able to get them to sound the way I like with my arch tops. I suppose I could get an acceptable and reasonable facsimile with my ES335 or H535 . . . but, they just ain't a Les Paul. I also love me a good Strat and I've got a couple of real winners. I couldn't be without them either.

Now, with that being said . . . 90+% of the limited time I do spend playing guitar . . . it's with an arch top. Also, I'm always looking for another arch top . . . but, I'll never need another solid body. Got all I want . . . got all I need. I'll never have enough arch tops. I just missed a beautiful 1966 Gibson Johnny Smith yesterday on ebay. Got beat out at the last minute. A beautiful blond in near mint condition with a beautiful quilt back and a single neck pup. PURE HEAVEN!!! But, I missed it.

However, If I could have only one guitar . . . it would be a toss up between my 1994 Golden Eagle and my 1994 Gibson L5CES.

Retroman1969 · #12 11-14-2011, 08:57 PM

Yes, I hate the sound and feel of thin strings on a solid too. Putting 12s on them makes a world of difference, but I'm afraid to go any thicker than that.
Pingu: LOL! I hear ya.
I've thought that I should have at least one good solid body around just for greater versatility, and have been shopping around heavily for them. That's when this revelation started hitting me.

PS: I'm envious of your choices Patrick!

skiboyny · #13 11-15-2011, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick2

I just missed a beautiful 1966 Gibson Johnny Smith yesterday on ebay. Got beat out at the last minute. A beautiful blond in near mint condition with a beautiful quilt back and a single neck pup. PURE HEAVEN!!! But, I missed it.

Good thing pretty sure it was a scam!

cmajor9 · #14 11-15-2011, 05:45 AM

There's nothing like playing an archtop, its addictive! The clarity, responsiveness, and being able to feel the vibration of the guitar against your body, all add up to a unique and very satisfying experience, both acoustically and amplified, IMHO.

TruthHertz · #15 11-15-2011, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiboyny

Good thing pretty sure it was a scam!

And I'll bet it sounded horrible. No wonder they didn't want to hold onto it. You'll get the next one and you'll be glad you waited.
David

Tom Karol · #16 11-15-2011, 06:26 AM

Nope, not me. I have a Tele clone with a maple board, 2 thinline semi-hollows with rosewood boards (one's a 335 clone and the other's a T5 clone) - all 3 have roundwound 11's on them, and a 000-28 with an ebony board strung with bronze 12's. I enjoy playing them all. That said, I wouldn't mind having a 16" full-depth archtop strung with flatwound 13's as well!

skiboyny · #17 11-15-2011, 01:11 PM

Been looking for a Smith for quite some time so I watch e-bay pretty close. That guitar was held by a dealer originally with an asking price of 11000.00 It's the best Smith I have ever seen. It's been on E-Bay 2 times that I know of both scams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

And I'll bet it sounded horrible. No wonder they didn't want to hold onto it. You'll get the next one and you'll be glad you waited.
David

Patrick2 · #18 11-15-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiboyny

Been looking for a Smith for quite some time so I watch e-bay pretty close. That guitar was held by a dealer originally with an asking price of 11000.00 It's the best Smith I have ever seen. It's been on E-Bay 2 times that I know of both scams.

I was really spooked by the price. It was way too low. I was also spooked by the seller not wanting to take PayPal . . . would only accept Discover. I didn't even know that Discover was still viable!! Then when I saw that the seller updated the listing on ebay to include PayPal . . . I decided to to jump into the bidding. My first bid was $4,000. I was going to top my offer out at $5,700 . . . . but hit the submit button too late and it showed to have sold at $5,300. My PayPal is linked to my AmEx card. Can't possible get burned there. It's funny, because I got an email from ebay indicating that the bid was withdrawn. I never received such a notice before. Anyway, I agree that was the best JS I have ever seen as well. There is another 1966 for sale . . . a sunburst Not quite as nice as the blond and the price is stupid high. $17,500!!! But, hey . . . it does include a hand written note from JS, for people who might get off on that sort of thing. I'm not one of those people.

I do have a Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Award that I might be looking to sell. It's finish is Opulent Brown, Bob Benedetto's signature color . . . near mint condition. If you're interested, PM me and we'll take it off line so that I don't hijack this thread any further than I already have.

TruthHertz · #19 11-15-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick2

. . . . but hit the submit button too late and it showed to have sold at $5,300.

ARGHH!! Yeah I was trying to make you feel not so bad... It breaks my heart to hear about ebay near misses. Did you get to communicate with the seller?
I have 2 Gibson Smiths, and love them both but alas they are casualties of my switch to 7 string. Now they feel like they're missing a string.
I've tried Benedetto Guild Smiths. Uninspiring. He's holding back for his own work obviously. Good luck. As the economy goes down the loo you'll come across more of these at good prices.
Snipe skillfully and bid high and fast!
David

skiboyny · #20 11-15-2011, 05:54 PM

Probably should sell them both. Got a couple of potential
buyers right here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

ARGHH!! Yeah I was trying to make you feel not so bad... It breaks my heart to hear about ebay near misses. Did you get to communicate with the seller?
I have 2 Gibson Smiths, and love them both but alas they are casualties of my switch to 7 string. Now they feel like they're missing a string.
I've tried Benedetto Guild Smiths. Uninspiring. He's holding back for his own work obviously. Good luck. As the economy goes down the loo you'll come across more of these at good prices.
Snipe skillfully and bid high and fast!
David

Larry M · #21 11-15-2011, 07:47 PM

I love my archtops the most---sound, feel, vibe, etc. Still, I appreciate the solids for their unique attributes. I had a Reverend Club King that had a great neck and some really nice clean tones. My son's strat is similar. Plus, I get tempted by the "versitility/variety" thing , even though I play jazz most of the time (archtop or nylon). But when push comes to shove (like it does), I've gotta stick with the archtops.

Retroman1969 · #22 11-15-2011, 09:24 PM

Cmajor9, exactly my feelings!
TK, Thinline Teles probably come the closest in my opinion, so I still have something of a soft spot for those. I could see myself having another one someday, although constantly correcting neck dive was a bit irritating.
LM, I know what you mean. Had to let stuff go to keep other stuff... The archtops stayed.

Patrick2 · #23 11-15-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

ARGHH!! Yeah I was trying to make you feel not so bad... It breaks my heart to hear about ebay near misses. Did you get to communicate with the seller?
I have 2 Gibson Smiths, and love them both but alas they are casualties of my switch to 7 string. Now they feel like they're missing a string.
I've tried Benedetto Guild Smiths. Uninspiring. He's holding back for his own work obviously. Good luck. As the economy goes down the loo you'll come across more of these at good prices.
Snipe skillfully and bid high and fast!
David

I did try to communicate directly with the seller. Emailed him twice. That too was fishy. He wrote in the post . . . "if you have any questions, you can contact me by email or" That's it. It just stopped at "or". So my only option was to send him messages through the ebay venue. He never responded.

I'm really shocked that you were unimpressed with the Guild Benedetto JS Awards you played. Mine is actually superb . . . visually and tonally. The only reason I'm selling it is that I'm liquidating a few to chase after a Citation that I've been lusting after for quite some time. When I saw that 1966 JS, I damned near shit myself. I was willing to get that and abandon the Citation for a little longer. But, it was not to be.

JakeAcci · #24 11-15-2011, 11:29 PM

I'm still on the fence. Got my first archtop about a year ago - sometimes I feel like it makes me play corny, as I have more modern tastes, other times I just stare at it and drool, then proceed to play it for hours and be late to wherever it was I was supposed to go.

My main guitar used to be my strat, strung with 11s. Sometimes I listen to old recordings of myself with it and think "shit, why can't I play like that now?" Maybe I'll do some set ups for my solid bodies...

cjm · #25 11-16-2011, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

...sometimes I feel like it makes me play corny...

How so?

Is it a matter of phrasing? Tone?

I mean, the sound of an archtop can be ruined as thoroughly with effects as any slab...

Just kidding.

Well, sort of.

Maybe.

Retroman1969 · #26 11-16-2011, 06:26 AM

Cjm...

I also am curious about the detail of what becomes corny. We all have our own definition of it in our heads.
In my personal taste, I find the work of Wes Montgomery, Grant Green, Joe Pass, etc, to still be thoroughly modern and cool sounding. Conversely, I find a lot of (not all) modern jazz like Fusion and Smooth jazz to sound like riding in an elevator, watching the Weather Channel, or shopping at Penny's. In other words, kind of cold, stilted and generic, or kinda corny. Granted, a different kind of corny than Guy Lombardo, but still corny.

cjm · #27 11-16-2011, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroman1969

Cjm...

I also am curious about the detail of what becomes corny. We all have our own definition of it in our heads.
In my personal taste, I find the work of Wes Montgomery, Grant Green, Joe Pass, etc, to still be thoroughly modern and cool sounding. Conversely, I find a lot of (not all) modern jazz like Fusion and Smooth jazz to sound like riding in an elevator, watching the Weather Channel, or shopping at Penny's. In other words, kind of cold, stilted and generic, or kinda corny. Granted, a different kind of corny than Guy Lombardo, but still corny.

I think you and I are pretty much in agreement here, although I'd go further to say that much modern "jazz" that emerged since the early 1960s represents a "dumbing down" of the genre by players with an insecurity about playing jazz and a desire to be rock stars to reach an audience with a taste for the insipid.

Hell, I'll come right out and say it. Late career Miles Davis, Coltrane pretty much paved the way to Kenny G...and about half or more of the current crop of well known "jazz" guitarists, including some who have openly criticized Kenny G. (Although I do find intellectual honesty in that criticism of Kenny G even considering the source, because he was right in the specifics of his criticism.)

And I know a lot of people will take ENORMOUS offense to that opinion. However, those who do take offense, generally don't think that declaring Barney Kessel's work with Oscar Peterson and Ray Brown to be quaint, old fashioned, out of date, "so yesterday," should be offensive.

There's still tremendous creative opportunity in that "out dated" iteration of jazz, because the first couple of generations of Bebop, Post Bop, West Coast, etc., players didn't come close to exhausting the potential before it was decided that squawking a sax like big goose or squealing a trumpet on one note for 8 bars was where jazz needed to go.

jorgemg1984 · #28 11-16-2011, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjm

I think you and I are pretty much in agreement here, although I'd go further to say that much modern "jazz" that emerged since the early 1960s represents a "dumbing down" of the genre by players with an insecurity about playing jazz and a desire to be rock stars to reach an audience with a taste for the insipid.

I dont take it as an offense but I do think this is a very ignorant opinion... (I sincerely hope you don't take this as an offense also)

cjm · #29 11-16-2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

I dont take it as an offense but I do think this is a very ignorant opinion... (I sincerely hope you don't take this as an offense also)

Actually, I take no offense, nor should I. We all have opinions...these opinions are subjective...none of us will agree 100% with any one else...and the point of expressing an opinion, or of considering another's opinion, is to test ideas and sometimes modify one's own opinion as a result.

But hell, if you want ignorant, just refer back to a comment you made about Barney Kessel's tone and musical interest a week or two ago in an exchange of opinion we had in another thread.

jorgemg1984 · #30 11-16-2011, 07:46 AM

Yes I know I did that comment! But maybe I was not clear enough back then - to me its just a matter of taste. I don't like kessel or pass - sound, phrasing, even time-feel... But I wont say they were not important or that they arre irrelevant (if I did I shouldn't have). They do have an important in the jazz history - the fact that I dont like them is just a pure matter of taste.

You are not saying you don't like modern jazz players - you are saying they suck and that they are irrelevant. I think it's different... but I love arguing with you - I like the fact you have such strong and different opinions from me but you can have an argument without taking it personal (which is actually a trademark on this forum)