acoustic fretless bass

[RAQ]

Has anyone been tempted to try out an acoustic bass guitar. I've been trying out a few bass lines/runs lately for purely educational purposes, just using the bottom four strings, but I've been thinking a real bass would be more authentic. I like the sound of acoustic basses (closer to an upright bass than an electric) and fretless might improve my understanding of intonation. Crafter do one that seems to be mid-priced which is generating GAS. Anyone got experience of these, or suggestions.

R.

[mangotango]

Quite a few times recently, I've been to a band practice and found no bassplayer there, and had to fill in. So I have been working on bass and whereas I'm not sure that I have time to get my act together on double bass, I am tempted by an EUB or a fretless bass guitar.

However, the Dean Pace is a fretless electric bass 9 with a double-bass styled neck) designed to be played upright, with double-bass technique. It gets a bad rap on the Bass forums, but I tried one and it might just work to give me a faux-upright sound (-ish) without my having to re-learn what I did 35 years ago. Maybe have a look at something like that?

Falling slowly / Once - Korala ukulele & Dean Pace upright bass cover - YouTube

BUT please note, the fingerboard radius is too flat for playing arco (bowed). On the other hand, the 35" scale means that it will take bass guitar strings. Swinga and roundabouts.

[cjm]

I gig/gigged with the bass more often than I gig with the guitar. (More jobs for bass players, and I just like playing jazz.)

From my perspective, there are good and valid reasons for sometimes avoiding the double bass (upright).

But if the double bass is being avoided because of concerns that it is too different from the guitar for a guitarist to play and to derive benefit from that playing...I say that these concerns should be set aside. It's not as different as you might think...there is a lot of transfer of learning between the two...practice on one does work as practice on the other.

But if you need portable...if you need cheap...if you need small because you live in a tiny apartment...the double bass may not be for you.

For those occasions where the double bass isn't practical, I've turned to the fretless slab. But I feel it needs a synthetic fingerboard (or synthetic -- epoxy -- coating) so that it can be played with round wound strings...it still doesn't sound like an upright, but some of the "Mwah" and growl of an upright will come through, and I can't get that with flatwounds on a rose wood fingerboard.

To me, it's the combination of round wound strings and the amp that allows a semi acceptable substitute for the double bass sound to be produced by a bass guitar. And I haven't found any combination of acoustic bass guitar, strings and amp that really provides that acceptable substitute.

Obviously, other styles of music call for different things, and the acoustic bass guitar has its place. But in the context of jazz, and particularly in those jazz setting where the double bass is more or less expected, the acoustic bass guitar just doesn't cut it for me.

I suggest -- if you can afford it, if you can transport it, if you can house it -- simply sucking it up and buying something like an old Kay.

If you cannot afford it, cannot get it across town, have no space to keep it at home...forget the double bass for now and buy a fretless solid body bass guitar with either a synthetic fingerboard, or one that has perhaps been defretted and epoxied to allow round wound strings.

Or get a tuba.

[hot ford coupe]

I've had experience with two acoustic guitar like basses. (They're not really bass guitars because those are set up differently. They're termed electric basses). One was the Martin bass series which is not bad but doesn't have the volume to really do what's necessary. I also have a custom made bass which was made from a 1951 Epi Deluxe body with a fretless neck grafted on like the head and neck of the Frankenstein monster. It also doesn't have the volume of an upright but when played with the electric on, it sounds fantastic. The key is to keep the volume on the pickup a little lower and pluck the strings a bit harder. Then you get the right amount of decay as well as more of an upright sound. I've got to get a picture of the thing because it looks like nothing else.

[jazzbow]

Hey Raq,
I bought myself a Harley Benton fretless bass (Thomann.de). It has a piezo and a simple pre amp, it shipped with roundwounds which I changed to black tapewounds and with a chunk of dense foam under the strings by the bridge it does a passable imitation of a double bass. It doesn't have fret markers and the side dots on the binding are from the fretted version so they're not that accurate to 'read' from. The neck is a D shape and exceptionally loong at a full 34" scale. The neck is a mahogany derivative and the top is laminated with what seems to be spruce/mahogany/spruce, the sides and back are laminated also. S
Now if you are interested I'm selling it complete with a huge hardcase, not gigged, just used for home recording.
Im based in SW Scotland here in the UK so PM me if you're interested and I'll send pix and videos of playability.
Oh, and the price is a straight up, no quibble £150 all in!

Here's a link
HARLEY BENTON HBB 30 NT FL - Thomann UK Cyberstore

Hope this helps

[Stevebol]

Originally Posted by RAQ

Has anyone been tempted to try out an acoustic bass guitar. I've been trying out a few bass lines/runs lately for purely educational purposes, just using the bottom four strings, but I've been thinking a real bass would be more authentic. I like the sound of acoustic basses (closer to an upright bass than an electric) and fretless might improve my understanding of intonation. Crafter do one that seems to be mid-priced which is generating GAS. Anyone got experience of these, or suggestions.

R.

People say most of these basses are a bit weak when played unplugged with dreadnoughts but to my ears thay are a good match, volume wise, with archtops. There are many options as far as strings/sound. It's a mystery to me why people don't use 4-string acoustic basses for gypsy/Django stuff. With the right strings I think they would sound nice. For modern jazz I don't know if they would sound right.
Paul Mcartney did get a bit of a jazzy tone with those nylons he used to use in the old days.

[cosmic gumbo]

If you want something little with a lot of bottom, try these, I hear bluegarass upright players love them. The bassist in our big band brought one to rehearsal once and it was unbelievable how great it sounded. I know, you said an acoustic.

DeArmond Ashbory Fretless Bass

YouTube Video

[bborzell]

I have a resonator acoustic bass. It's not fretless, but that's what the Ric is for.

[mangotango]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

If you want something little with a lot of bottom, try these, I hear bluegarass upright players love them. The bassist in our big band brought one to rehearsal once and it was unbelievable how great it sounded. I know, you said an acoustic.

DeArmond Ashbory Fretless Bass

Or if you want something that can be played acoustically, try this:-

Jammin' with my Kala UBass ? 04 Jazz Blues - YouTube

[Eddie Lang]

Originally Posted by mangotango

Or if you want something that can be played acoustically, try this:-

Jammin' with my Kala UBass ? 04 Jazz Blues - YouTube

I have played a fretless UBass a few times. It's very cool and sounds great, but there is almost no way you can play it acoustically, even to practice by yourself. It is very, very quiet. I highly recommend it though. It has the same feel-good effect as the ukulele.

It sounds great through a Phil Jones Briefcase or a Bass Cub BG-100 (I played with both ).

[Atticus]

If you want to get a good acoustic bass sound out of a bass guitar, you just have to palm mute. The technique is a bit different from doing it on guitar, but it sounds great. I learned it from Marcus Miller at a masterclass, and our bassist has been using it to great effect so he doesn't have to bring his upright to every gig. The trick is to get the initial attack of the note out, a nice firm "thump", and kill the sustain. Flatwound strings help a lot in this regard.

I'm not a fan of acoustic bass guitars because they don't have enough volume to play unplugged in many settings, and I don't think the tone makes much difference once you plug it in.

As for fretless, well, I'll paraphrase another teacher at the above-mentioned masterclass. Fretless bass guitar is one of the most unforgiving instruments ever to be devised, because everyone can hear your poor intonation and mistakes, much more so than even an electric upright, so you have to be willing to dedicate plenty of practice time to getting it right, even with a lined fretless. If you want to take that time to learn, more power to you, but a P-bass or a J-bass and a decent amp will get the job done.

[RAQ]

Thanks for all your comments. I'm not ignoring your contributions, just dithering. I am, though, determined to reach a decision - I just don't know what it is yet.

[ronjazz]

For guitarists to double on fretless bass, having the fretlines is very helpful. I picked up and Ibanez 5-string acoustic bass guitar a few years ago, and had my tech yank the frets and fill in the slots with strips (maple, I think), and threw a set of nylon-wound strings on it. it works very well, sounds a bit like Ron Carter's bass. I have the high C tuning, getting into the Marvin Gaye range. I say go for it, it's really fun!

[boo]

This guy sound astonishly good and has a very guitar like technique...

YouTube Video

sorry, the embedded youtube does not work. Here is the link