Was the Gibson L-7 ever made with a pickup?

[farlow]

There are a number of photographs of Doug Raney playing what looks like an L-7 with a neck mounted humbucker (not a floating pickup).

Was this probably a custom order or a post-production modification?

Did Gibson ever make the L-7 available with a mounted pickup?

With the pickup installed, would this basically be a Wes Montgomery L-5 with less ornamentation?

[cjm]

I think the only way the L7 was available from Gibson as an "electric" was by ordering it with the McCarty pickguard suspended pickup assembly. This was also available as an aftermarket item.

Lots of L7 guitars were converted "in the wild." Probably the most common method back in the day was with the DeArmond Guitar Mic and Rhythm Chief pickups.

But you'll run into a little bit of everything on them if you look long enough.

[rpguitar]

The short answer is that no, Gibson never produced a stock L-7 with a mounted pickup. They did equip some L-7s at the factory with a McCarty floating pickguard/pickup combo, however. Grant Green is seen playing one on the cover of "Idle Moments," although given the picture frame inlays, that was an L-7 from the 1930s, so the McCarty apparatus was retrofitted to it. But there were L-7E and L-7CE models produced (yes, those were the designations).

Any humbucker you see mounted, though, is either a custom order or a player modification.

[oldane]

There are a number of photographs of Doug Raney playing what looks like an L7 with a neck mounted humbucker (not a floating pickup). Was this probably a custom order or a post-production modification? Did Gibson ever make the L7 available with a mounted pickup? With the pickup installed, would this basically be a Wes Montgomery L5 with less ornamentation?

I was an ES 350. A couple of decades ago, I lived in Copenhagen like Doug Raney did (and still does to the best of my knowledge), and aften heard him in the clubs there. In fact, I have seen Doug Raney with two 350s at different stages in his carreer. They were both modified, and I think Doug Raney tinkered a bit with his instruments from time to time. The first one had a P90 on it in the neck position and a hole where a bridge picup had been. The second which he got when the first one apparently wore out (it looked that way in the end) first had a CC pickup in the neck position, later replaced by a P90. In between the two he used an old Gretsch with cats eyes holes. Reportedly Doug also inherited his fathers instruments when he died.

The ES 350 was a laminated guitar with one or two PUs, first P90s, later HBs. It had the same size and cosmetic trim as the L7. It came in a full body version with 25½" scale and in a thinline version with a shorter Byrdland scale, though the thinline was also produded with 25½" scale in small quantities from time to time.

The ES 350 was eventually replaced by the Tal Farlow model, which was essentially the same guitar with different cosmetics. However, Gibson made a short revival in the 1970s with a long scale ES 350 thinline.

[Nils]

Incidentally, and apparently, Doug's battered old Gibson which you see on the cover of his debut album for Steeple Chase (a great album!) - the one with a P90 in the neck position and a gaping hole where the bridge pickup used to be- is also the one you hear on his father's Live in Tokyo album from 1976. At least that's what I heard (I can't remember where - maybe from Jimmy's other son and Doug's kid brother Jon Raney's website. It has more info on Jimmy's gear...) As far as I recall, Jimmy borrowed that guitar from Doug, when going to Japan... (Now that's was I call jazz guitar trivia!)

And you're right, Oldane, when his father died, Doug inherited some of his guitars. I remember seeing him in Copenhagen in the mid-90s playing Jimmy's Höfner guitar.

I occasionally see Doug on the street here in Copenhagen, but I can't remember when I last saw him perform...

[jazzuki]

L7's never had any p/u but as others have said D'Armonds were used to electrify it-was a follow on to the sucessful L10's and L12's-- built in 1935 @$125-it was priced between the L4 @$100 and the L10 @$150.The L4 was a round hole model and the L7 became Gibson's lowest priced Grand Auditorium model with f-holes. L7c(cut-away) was introduced in 1954 and from 1961-1972 its last year of production about 700 were made and were all sunbursts.

[jazzuki]

L-7 Electrics;according to Tom Wheeler postwar models came in 4 versions- all with integrated pickguard-mounted p/u's patented by Ted McCarty-the one p/u noncutaway L-7 E -the one p/u cutaway L-7 CE- and the 2 p/u cutaway L-7CED all were discontinued after poor sales in 1954=so a few were produced but were unsuccessful.

[muffsic]

Hi to all

I have a nice es 175 played thru a roland 80 cube. I thought this was a good set up until I played a re issue L7 that was just light years ahead in tone - but they have no pickup.

Has anyone retrofitted a pickup into a L7, and if so what did they use and how far from the base of the neck did they place it - plus any other hints and comments on how it worked amplified against the great acoustic range it has.

Cheers

[hot ford coupe]

I would invest in a floating pickup rather than a set in one. You'll have others that will disagree with me but here's why I think a floater would be better. First, when you put in a set in pickup, you may run into the top braces which may not let you add the pickup you want. Second, with a floater, the only part of the guitar that you may need to alter is the pickguard and not the top. Once you cut the top, you can't reverse it.

[muffsic]

Thanks - will double check the top braces - never thought of this!

Have you had any experience with floating pickups/brands etc...

Cheers

[wintermoon]

of course the L-7 is a guitar made of solid woods w/a carved spruce top as opposed to the plywood 175.

I suspect the reason you like the L-7 better is because it's an acoustic guitar and you like that sound.
Cutting a hole in the top would basically make it into an electric guitar and you already have one of those.

Do as the others have suggested and try the floating p.u. first [an old dearmond makes for a good carved top p.u.]

[henkkicken]

I use a floating DeArmond 1100 ... Great combination with my 1947 L7 - I like the looks and love the tone!

[oldane]

Like others have said, I would NEVER cut a hole for a humbucker (or any holes for that matter) in an archtop built as an acoustic instrument.

First, you may have to cut the braces to make room for the pickup, and then the top may collapse when it's strung up again (or at some point in the next year or so). I have once seen that happen to a beautiful blonde L5. The owner wanted his luthier to do it but the luther - sensibly - refused to do it - after which the owner did it himself. Precisely as the luthier had foreseen, the top began to sag a lot which after some months made it impossible to raise the action sufficiently, and the top also developed two nasty cracks. I saw the guitar when the owner brought it back to the luthier for repair. He showed it to everybody coming in the shop in order to teach them what NOT to do.

Here you may say: What about the L5 CES or Super400 CES? They have carved spruce top? Yes, but the tops on the CES models are carved thicker. In addition the bracing is heavier and laid out so it is placed outside of where the pickups are situated. Thus a CES is less of an acoustic guitar than what meets the eye.

Second, the big difference in the acoustic sound between the L7 and the ES175 will NOT be reflected in the sound from a magnetic pickup through an amp. There WILL likely be a minor difference in sound, but likely not more than can be more or less dialled away with slight twists on the tone controls on your amp. A change in strings, pick, picking position and general playing technique can mean a much bigger difference in sound. Recently, one of our Dutch forum members uploaded recordings of a number of archtops - laminated as well as carved spruce, floating and built in pickups - and the difference was remarkably small. I wasn't able to tell blindfolded which guitars were carved spruce/laminated and which had floating or built in pickups.

The sensible thing to do is to get a second pickguard and mount a floating pickup on that together with volume/tone controls and output jack. That way you don't change anything on your L7 and can put it back in its original all acoustic condition in a few minutes if you want to. Pickguards fitting an L7 and looking like the originals are quite easy to find. AllParts has them for not much, but they are also quite thin. There are others out there which are thicker - and more expensive.

You said you wanted a humbucker. Kent Armstrong makes a floating full size humbucker for archtops which has a very good reputation. Make sure you get the one made by Kent Armstrong himself and not one of those of Asian origin bearing his name. If you want something more customised, you may want to contact Pete Biltoft of Vintage Vibe Guitars who can make almost everything on request at reasonable prices. I would not compromize with pickup quality to save a few bucks. A good pickup can follow you for decades and be moved from one guitar to the next.

[DRS]

Noob question
Are all L-7s solid carved top with solid wood back and sides? They seem reasonably priced for such nice vintage guitars.

[wintermoon]

they're all carved tops, but occasionally you'll see a 40's example w/a plywood back

[Chazmo]

I had a 2006 reissue L7-C and had a handwound Kent Armstrong floating Slimbucker fitted to the pickguard right at the end of the neck. There wasn't much room between the strings and the top so I had to use the slim one that I believe is called something like "2D" on the Archtop.com web site. That pickup run through an acoustic amp (I used a Roland AC 60 or an AI Corus) maintained the acoustic sound of the L7 nicely. Not so acoustic sounding through my Roland Cube 60 or Ampeg Reverberocket but way more so than the L5 Wes I also had at the time. I also fitted a K&K archtop pickup with two transducer contacts under the top with the intention of running the magnetic and transducer pickups in stereo. The upshot is that I hated the K&K sound and the Armstrong kept the acoustic properties so well that I never used the K&K transducers.

I did have a problem with static coming through from the pickguard, but that is common for any floater as I understand it. I read a piece from Chris recently where he said he covered the bottom of the guard with copper foil to shield it. Others have said to rub a dryer sheet on the bottom--that sounds pretty wanky. At any rate, I had a guy make an ebony guard in the same shape as the original Gibson and the Armstrong was fitted to that. Controls for volume and tone were mounted to the pickguard. No problem with transmitting static from the wooden guard.

I wouldn't even think about cutting a hole in the L7. You would decrease the acoustic sound of the guitar and the reissues are x-braced so you would probably cut right through a brace or two.

[DRS]

So a L7 is an L5 with no pickups and less bling?

[hot ford coupe]

So a L7 is an L5 with no pickups and less bling?

That's almost exactly the same way the best dealers describe the L7. It's made the same way except without the extra binding and crap. Some of the more modern builders believe that the guitar sounds better without the extra bling since said bling stifles some of the vibrations.

[gcb]

Lollar makes a McCarty fingerrest-pickup that fits nicely on an L-7C Reissue

Jabberwocky yesterday while watching one of the "Legends of Jazz Guitar" old videos where Grant Green appears playing a non cutaway Epiphone with the McCarty fingerrest-pickup I was thinking it would be nice to have one of those. Thanks for the info.

[oldane]

Jabberwocky yesterday while watching one of the "Legends of Jazz Guitar" old videos where Grant Green appears playing a non cutaway Epiphone with the McCarty fingerrest-pickup I was thinking it would be nice to have one of those. Thanks for the info.

Back in the 1950s, L7 guitars could actually be ordered from Gibson with the McCarthy fingerrest (which was available in one or two pickup versions). So equipping a modern L7 with it is ''period correct''.

[Chrome]

Here is a pic of my 1949 L7 with a McCarty pickup.

[2bornot2bop]

gorgeous L7's! so there is such a thing as a poor man's L5!?

[kamlapati]

So a L7 is an L5 with no pickups and less bling?

Only partly: an L-7 is an L-5 with less bling. But the PU part is not true. Many L-5's are totally acoustic. Around here you should always use the whole name, for instance

L-5 - usually a prewar full acoustic
L-5CES - postwar with two mounted PUs
L-5C - postwar acoustic with cutaway, frequently but not always, with some kind of floating PU
L-5 Wes - a modern remake of Wes' custom guitar, with a single mounted PU

The bracing varies a bit between models too so to me the difference between an L-5C and a CES is really a big deal.

[Flat]

Chrome, you've inspired me! I might try adding a Lollar McCarty to my '44. Not cheap, but a lot less than trading up to my dream L5!

Thanks for the idea.

[hot ford coupe]

I had a 35 L7 that I recently sold because I wasn't playing it. The neck was too wide for me, there was no room for a DeArmond pickup near the fingerboard extention and it had gotten some dust on it. It actually looked better than the L5 because it had the picture frame inlays and a fancier headstock inlay than the L5's flower pot. It was very light, loud and boomy and looked great but that neck gave me trouble. Just kidding about the dust.