Deluxe Reverb or Princeton Chorus

[Jazz_175]

Hello!
I've already got a Henriksen Jazz Amp to get a warm jazz tone with my jazz guitars.
Now I'd like to buy another amp to be used with jazz guitars but also with my Telecaster and Ibanez solid body.
So I found a used Deluxe Reverb (2009) for 700 euros.
Another amp that can be found used at a price between 200 and 350 is the
Princeton Chorus (black knobs and/or red knobs).
I know they are completely different amps (tube vs non-tube), but I heard they both have such a nice clean sound.
Which one to choose?
Maybe I should buy both.
What is your experience with these amps?
Thanks

[RoyaleT]

I bought a used Princeton Chorus(Black knob) with original 2 button footswitch, Fender cover and an amp stand off E-Bay last year for $165+s/h. Pristine condition. Love the amp with my Godin and Aria hollowbodies, not with my Dot semi. Great reverb, chorus is a bit too much, so used sparingly. I have payed through a DR which was a fine sounding amp, but too much $$ at the time.

[jorgemg1984]

I have something similar to a Princeton Chorus, a M80. In my case I bought it for 140€, put an EV in there, better op amps and better reverb. Its a very good jazz amp in the end... Not brilliant but very good. But my main goal was to have a cabinet for the EV in order to use it with my jazzmaster ultralight head and 140€ was cheaper than any cabinet I have seen and had the amp as a bonus Its probably not as good as the Henriksen but it will be near and it is much cheaper!

But I guess the Deluxe is a better option... It needs some tweaking to sound really good imo - new speaker, middle button and bright cap mod... I would change the tone stack too probably and maybe a new transformer to get more than 22w. If I found one around 500€ I would probably buy it and to the mods. But a lof of people like the Deluxe stock...

Try both and decide for yourself, they are very different amps!

[Jazz_175]

Originally Posted by RoyaleT

I bought a used Princeton Chorus(Black knob) with original 2 button footswitch, Fender cover and an amp stand off E-Bay last year for $165+s/h. Pristine condition. Love the amp with my Godin and Aria hollowbodies, not with my Dot semi. .....

Thanks for the reply.
I am surprised you didn't like the Princeton Chorus with semiacoustic (I guess you've got a Gibson 335 or similar)

[mtierney]

If you already have a really nice solid state, I would go tube. Do you have any other amps? If you're getting multiple amps, most people would consider a good, clean, Fender tube amp to be one of the necessary amps to get. Depending on what size amp you want, I would also recommend the Princeton Reverb, which is small but has some of the best tone of any amp in my opinion.

I know a lot of people that swear by that amp with or without mods. It also takes pedals really well, if you're into that. Great sounding reverb too.

[RoyaleT]

My Dot is a reworked Epiphone. I rebuilt the whole thing with upgraded Grovers, graphite nut, new bridge and stop tailpiece. All new electronics and Seymore Duncan humbuckers. It sounds OK, but I need to use an EQ pedal to have it sound good for jazz to my ear with the Princeton Chorus. he match works much better for Blues or some classic rock straight up.

[Jazz_175]

Regarding the lack of the middle knob in the Deluxe Reverb (and also in the 65 Princeton Reverb) do you think you can supply using an external equalizer or that just does not make sense?

[Drifter]

I would recommend to buy a tube amp if you already have the ss Henriksen. I own a Princeton Chorus, it's a great amp for the Fender Stratocaster sound but is not suited very well for semis or hollow bodies. A tube amp would bring a new dimension to your sound.

[kawa]

' Bass and Treble ' , enough. no problems. (the middle fixed 5～6 on the circuits)

Settups Jazztone

Bass ; 3～4

Treble ; 1～2

[starjag]

Originally Posted by Jazz_175

Regarding the lack of the middle knob in the Deluxe Reverb (and also in the 65 Princeton Reverb) do you think you can supply using an external equalizer or that just does not make sense?

I have a 73 Deluxe Reverb . Vey nice jazz tone with the treble around 4.5 and the bass around 7. The mids are there... you need to find the right balance for the tone you are looking for.

[jorgemg1984]

Any tech can put a middle button i there if you need (I would). Easy task.

[Jazz_175]

Originally Posted by Drifter

I would recommend to buy a tube amp if you already have the ss Henriksen. I own a Princeton Chorus, it's a great amp for the Fender Stratocaster sound but is not suited very well for semis or hollow bodies. A tube amp would bring a new dimension to your sound.

I understand the recommendation to buy a tube amp.
I still cannot believe that the Princeton Chorus is not suited for semis or hollow bodies.

[Drifter]

A semi or hollow body will not sound as lively or woody as through a (good) tube amp. Others might disagree.

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by Drifter

A semi or hollow body will not sound as lively or woody as through a (good) tube amp. Others might disagree.

Many variables and a high degree of subjectivity.

[Jazz_175]

Just to keep you updated.
In the end I bought the Deluxe Reverb, which I think is a really great amp.
The clean, reverb and vibrato are fantastic.
Playing a 335 or a telecaster through it is such a nice experience, and also a 175.
I would definitely recommend

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by Jazz_175

Just to keep you updated.
In the end I bought the Deluxe Reverb, which I think is a really great amp.
The clean, reverb and vibrato are fantastic.
Playing a 335 or a telecaster through it is such a nice experience, and also a 175.
I would definitely recommend

No surprises there. I play a variety of arch tops thru a 1970 Princeton Reverb, all stock and original except for a speaker upgrade . . . and also a 1970 Fender Pro Reverb, with a *Fuchs Audio* black face upgrade . . (thanks Andy). I have arch tops with floating pups, with a single mounted pup in the neck position and with 2 mounted pups. KILLER tone from both amps with all guitars. But, as was mentioned here, you need to search for and work for the tone you want within each amp.
On the flip side of that, I have an Evans E150 that I bought new about 18 years ago. I also get a great jazz vibe and tone out of that amp as well.

It's a balancing act with many components . . . amp, guitar, strings, pups, picks and of course technique.

The constant "quest for tone" that I see many people torturing themselves to achieve always entertains me. My 2 all time favorite jazz guitariats are Joe Pass and Wes Montgomery. I've heard each of those players, on certain recordings, with guitar tone that was horrible. But, they made so much music that . . who cared??? Who EVER sounded worse than Grant Green??? I heard his lines first and his tone last. I attended a duo setting performace by my former jazz guitar instructor Vinnie Corrao and Tal Farlow, at an obscure little music shop in Rutherford, NJ. (Rutherford Music Exchange . . RIP Eddie Capuano). After a few songs, Vinnie and Tal took a few questions. The best question of the evening was from someone who asked Tal what kind of excersizes he did to get his hands so big . . lololololololo. But, there was also a question as to why Tal spec'ed out his signature Gibson guitar with laminate top and back (that's code for plywood for cjm). "Is it because of the tone?" was at the heart of the question. Tal's response in his soft southern drawl was classic Tal, and speaks volumes on this matter . . . "I don't give a hoot about the tone. I make my own tone. I don't want to deal with the feed back. That's why I spec'ed a laminate top and back".

Man . . . I loved Tal's musicality! He's my third favorite jazz guitarist of all time . . . . but, I digress . . . . .

[jorgemg1984]

In some cases the sounds stops me from hearing the music unfortunatelly (Joe Pass and Grant Green arew two good examples)

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

In some cases the sounds stops me from hearing the music unfortunatelly (Joe Pass and Grant Green arew two good examples)

Fortunately for me, I can not at all relate to what you are saying here . . . I can't even imagine it! Here . . . try thinking about this scenario; you're in your living room . . . . . . you have a few friends over . . . . your all time favorite jazz guitar player (living or deceased) stops by to say hello . . . . you all talk him into playing a few songs . . . . however, the only guitar you have in the house is an old Kay archtop with strings that should have been changed a year ago. Your jazz guitar idol smiles, tunes up the guitar and proceeds to play some of your favorite jazz classics in chord melody style. Are you telling me you will not "hear the music"?? What if every amp and every guitar in the world sounded like shit? Would you be less interested in jazz guitar music?

Don't get me wrong . . . I love great jazz guitar tone. I prefer great jazz guitar tone . I try to achieve great guitar tone. I will not worry myself sick about getting great jazz guitar tone, until after I have achieved the ability to create great jazz guitar music. And, even then, it will remain a distant second to the music.

[cjm]

Logically, if tone is more important than content, we are led to a situation in which a guitar without a guitar player -- merely placed on a stand -- becomes the performer.

Maybe some one could sit beside the guitar and occasionally rake his or her fingers across the strings while the audience goes oooh and ahhh...

[Anandbhat]

I kinda like Grant Green's tone. At least it's not as 'squished' as a lot of tracks from that era!

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by Anandbhat

I kinda like Grant Green's tone. At least it's not as 'squished' as a lot of tracks from that era!

I was too harsh on Grant Green. I should have said sometimes his tone was the worst. . . especially when he played the semi-hollows. But, Grant probably did more with phrasing a melody than most other jazz guitarists.

By contrast, I thought Johnny Smith's tone was consistently great. But, I wasn't at all thrilled with his playing. Should I excuse his playing just because he had good tone?

[jmstritt]

Are we really going to have another conversation about Grant Green's stanky tone?

You hear the lines first, but the tone definitely enhances it.

I love that Tal Farlow story though!!! ;-)

To the OP: Glad you got an amp you dig! If you really want to get crazy run the DR with the Henriksen in stereo. I think you will find that sonically they do a great job of filling each other's voids. You can get the sparkle of the Fender's top end with the nice bass response of the Henriksen. A guitar player in my town does that same thing with a Polytone and a Princeton Reverb, beautiful full tone!

[cjm]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

By contrast, I thought Johnny Smith's tone was consistently great. But, I wasn't at all thrilled with his playing. Should I excuse his playing just because he had good tone?

Precisely. While I would give some one else's right arm to be able to play like Johnny Smith, I have always found his playing to be white bread slathered with mayonnaise when compared to his more jazz oriented contemporaries.

Tone just doesn't cut it.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

... By contrast, I thought Johnny Smith's tone was consistently great. But, I wasn't at all thrilled with his playing. Should I excuse his playing just because he had good tone?

Not thrilled??? You should excuse his playing because it was superb!

Grant Green and Johnny Smith aside, some of the Mesa amps also have superb cleans and work well with archtops (as do some of the Fenders). I bought a Transatlantic 30 for my solid body and was surprised at how good my archtop sounds through it. It's very flexible tone-wise and very lightweight - the head weighs only 20 pounds.


... Just something to think about for future reference maybe. Meanwhile, congrats to the OP on a happy purchase.

[Jazz_175]

Originally Posted by jmstritt

To the OP: Glad you got an amp you dig! If you really want to get crazy run the DR with the Henriksen in stereo. I think you will find that sonically they do a great job of filling each other's voids. You can get the sparkle of the Fender's top end with the nice bass response of the Henriksen. A guitar player in my town does that same thing with a Polytone and a Princeton Reverb, beautiful full tone!

I have been thinking about that, and was going to ask more details.
Should I use Boss LS-2 or a similar device.

[jorgemg1984]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

Fortunately for me, I can not at all relate to what you are saying here . . . I can't even imagine it! Here . . . try thinking about this scenario; you're in your living room . . . . . . you have a few friends over . . . . your all time favorite jazz guitar player (living or deceased) stops by to say hello . . . . you all talk him into playing a few songs . . . . however, the only guitar you have in the house is an old Kay archtop with strings that should have been changed a year ago. Your jazz guitar idol smiles, tunes up the guitar and proceeds to play some of your favorite jazz classics in chord melody style. Are you telling me you will not "hear the music"?? What if every amp and every guitar in the world sounded like shit? Would you be less interested in jazz guitar music?

Don't get me wrong . . . I love great jazz guitar tone. I prefer great jazz guitar tone . I try to achieve great guitar tone. I will not worry myself sick about getting great jazz guitar tone, until after I have achieved the ability to create great jazz guitar music. And, even then, it will remain a distant second to the music.

I know it's stupid but it also happens to me with fusion guys like Gambale or Holdsworth - sometimes the content is great but I hate the sound. I have to make an effort in the future, right now I am happy with lots of guitar players that I love both content and sound

[jorgemg1984]

Originally Posted by cjm

Logically, if tone is more important than content, we are led to a situation in which a guitar without a guitar player -- merely placed on a stand -- becomes the performer.

Maybe some one could sit beside the guitar and occasionally rake his or her fingers across the strings while the audience goes oooh and ahhh...

Tone is AS IMPORTANT as content to me - a slight yet important difference.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Tone is AS IMPORTANT as content to me - a slight yet important difference.

Okay, the logical conclusion then becomes you would be just as happy to hear me play a Benedetto through a Henricksen amp as you would be to hear the reincarnation of Joe Pass playing a Fender Esquire through a Peavey with a nasty buzz.

That being the case, I am happy to accept your offer to perform in Portugal for one week at $10,000.00 U.S. per day, plus air fare, hotel, meal, and local transportation expense, a new Benedetto that I will keep, and the use of a Henricksen amp for the week.

And I like single malt Scotch and Belgian chocolates and there better be both in my hotel room.

Plus, my wife is coming with me.

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by jmstritt

Are we really going to have another conversation about Grant Green's stanky tone?

You hear the lines first, but the tone definitely enhances it.

I love that Tal Farlow story though!!! ;-)

To the OP: Glad you got an amp you dig! If you really want to get crazy run the DR with the Henriksen in stereo. I think you will find that sonically they do a great job of filling each other's voids. You can get the sparkle of the Fender's top end with the nice bass response of the Henriksen. A guitar player in my town does that same thing with a Polytone and a Princeton Reverb, beautiful full tone!

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

I know it's stupid but it also happens to me with fusion guys like Gambale or Holdsworth - sometimes the content is great but I hate the sound. I have to make an effort in the future, right now I am happy with lots of guitar players that I love both content and sound

I don't think it's stupid at all. Stupid is a pretty harsh word. I also think, based upon your comments about fusion guys like Gambale and Holdsworth, I might have misinterpretted your sentiment. Now, I think I understand your sentiment a little better. I thought you were just commenting on some of the players who were not able to get the "to die for" standard jazz tone . . . and that you couldn't listen to great jazz players with a mediocre jazz tone.

Now I understand you better . . . and to a certain extent, I do agree with you. For example . . . I once told a true story here in this forum about opening the window on the passenger side of my SUV . . . then ejecting the Pat Martino, Wes Montgomery Tribute CD out of the player and flinging it frisbee style out the window and into the trees on the side of the road while driving at 75. (don't worry, there was no one in the passenger seat and no cars to the right of mine) Pat's playing was good . . but the mix on the recording was so muddy and bassy I hated it. Similarly, when an artist is GOING for a certain sound, and it's not to my liking, I am less likely to be tolerant of it. Example; John Scofield. Sco can play realy well. But, he loves his edginess and his slight flange in his amp setting. I hate it!! But, I can listen to it for a while. What does NOT bother me, is hearing great standard jazz or bebop jazz lines, chords . . whatever, from a good player who just hasn't achieved that level of "tone excellence" what ever that is.

I know that might sound like a sentiment in conflict with itself . . . but, It's not.

[jorgemg1984]

I would be happy to hear you in Lisbon at a fair price if you had good tone and good content - I am sure someone will book you and meet all those requirements if you are that good (man all those fancy requirements and then an Henriksen? Really?).

I am not even the one who started this discussion and I admit I shouldn't care so much about tone and care more about content - which I will try to do in the future.