What are the downsides of a Jazz Box?

[lukaas]

Im thinking of spending some money on a Jazz Box.

Im playing a 339 at the moment and its size is causing bad posture for me at practice.

Ive found an 80s epiphone Emperor 2 which really spoke to me and Im wondering if there are any downsides to the full width box.

Thanks,

Luke

[Bill C]

potential for feedback in higher volume settings?

[jorgemg1984]

Feedback and less versatility for other styles compared with a 339. But i much prefer archtops to 335 type guitars, if you liked it go for it. The feedback issue has several solutions you can find using the search function. The versality one is also easy to solve: keep the 339

[swampguide]

Full-width archtops usually have less sustain. Intonation won't be as good with archtops that don't have compensated bridges (you can buy an aftermarket compensated bridge to fix this).

I've found some bigger archtops can cause pain in my right (picking) shoulder I think because of the increased angle my arm has to be at.

However, none of these issues keeps me from playing my archtop.

[fws6]

That you'll buy more and more

[cosmic gumbo]

A jazz box is pretty much a one trick pony. A magic pony.

[JakeAcci]

The size of the big ones can be a nuisance for finding a comfortable playing position.

[cjm]

The downsides of a jazz box are known as the rims.

Thickness of these downsides, or "rims" will vary from as much as four inches to as little as 2 inches -- but most will be no less than approximately 2.5 inches and no thicker than 3.5 inches.

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by cjm

The downsides of a jazz box are known as the rims.

Thickness of these downsides, or "rims" will vary from as much as four inches to as little as 2 inches -- but most will be no less than approximately 2.5 inches and no thicker than 3.5 inches.

Stop slapping my knees.

[SamBooka]

Originally Posted by lukaas

Im thinking of spending some money on a Jazz Box.

Im playing a 339 at the moment and its size is causing bad posture for me at practice.

Ive found an 80s epiphone Emperor 2 which really spoke to me and Im wondering if there are any downsides to the full width box.

Thanks,

Luke

You wont get as many honeys...

[cjm]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

Stop slapping my knees.

I guess that means I shouldn't mention the upside, bottom side and pointy end?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by SamBooka

You wont get as many honeys...

That's okay. I already wear thick-lensed glasses.

[Jabberwocky]

You'll find yourself playing only JAZZ, and nothing else. That cannot be a good thing, can it? :P

[cjm]

But in all seriousness, and to respond to the OP's question...there is no answer to this question.

It is all subjective, all relative and entirely a matter of personal taste and preference.

A propensity toward amplifier feedback isn't a downside unless you want to play too loudly for the particular combination of guitar and amplifier you have...and plywood archtops with set in pickups are remarkably resistant to feedback anyway.

The size of an archtop isn't a downside if it fits your physique.

The cost of an archtop isn't a downside if you can afford it, or if you select from the array of mass produced, utilitarian, and VERY budget priced archtops on today's market.

The supposed lack of versatility of an archtop relative to other designs isn't a downside if you intend to play what many would refer to as "straight ahead jazz."

The claimed fragility of an archtop isn't a downside if you don't gig in biker bars, or commute to gigs over rough trails with the guitar in a travois behind a green broke horse.

A better question, and one that gets more to the heart of the matter, would be, "What are the upsides of an archtop?"

[JakeAcci]

Cjm I'd be interested to know if you have any opinions about archtop vs. solid body...you usually seem to hold back your true feelings on the issue.

::emoticon::

[cjm]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

Cjm I'd be interested to know if you have any opinions about archtop vs. solid body...you usually seem to hold back your true feelings on the issue.

::emoticon::

I refrain from posting my opinions on any topic.

But seriously, what difference is it what my opinion is?

However, since you asked, I'll answer:

I like slabs. I simply like hollowbody archtop electrics more than I like slabs for a variety of reasons.

[rpguitar]

Well, there you go. Jazz guitar choices reduced to caveman terms:

Slab good. Box better.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by rpguitar

Well, there you go. Jazz guitar choices reduced to caveman terms:

Slab good. Box better.

If I ever buy another guitar, I'm leaning toward the Neanderthal New Yorker with the bison bone pickup and hand knapped flint inlays.

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by cjm

I refrain from posting my opinions on any topic.

But seriously, what difference is it what my opinion is?

However, since you asked, I'll answer:

I like slabs. I simply like hollowbody archtop electrics more than I like slabs for a variety of reasons.

The issue is that my computer monitor is facing the wall where I hang all of my guitars. The Les Paul is fairly stoic, but sometimes I see my Strat peering over my shoulder and reading your posts, and I swear it shed a tear once and the neck bowed a bit. I had to play it for a week to get it feeling better.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

The issue is that my computer monitor is facing the wall where I hang all of my guitars. The Les Paul is fairly stoic, but sometimes I see my Strat peering over my shoulder and reading your posts, and I swear it shed a tear once and the neck bowed a bit. I had to play it for a week to get it feeling better.

Your Strat responds to my posts as a music lover responds to my performance.

Of course, a Strat cannot vomit, and a Strat will never throw vegetables at a bandstand.

[JakeAcci]

Originally Posted by cjm

Of course, a Strat cannot vomit, and a Strat will never throw vegetables at a bandstand.

With some of the stuff it sees on this forum, it has come close.

[stevedenver]

my 2 cents

while many never re-sell-
some do-
and no one wants their hard earned money wasted
the first point is buying at market or less -so your guitar retains its value, even with use and good care


large production gutiars, such as ibanez-as an example only, are great insturments, but if a dealer can buy them and make a margin even at a low price, that instrumnet may well be harder to re-sell or keep its value-

there are, obviously many considerations, and some exceptions, too, to this generalizations, such as woods, changes in a model making earlier ones more desirable , etc,



re-sale for many-especially boutique and anything other than iconic or collector type instruments can be difficult-

my comment is not all emcompassing
but simply-there are far more guitar players who want a strat or les paul than and ES 350

my point is that while few instruments are investments -there are many that tend to hold value due to inflation and increasing retail prices

i suggest that you buy an instrument especially a jazz guitar with that understanding

imho, regardless of merit or relative quality, a Gibson -or other big time name maker- is far more likely to hold its value, simply due to name and familiarty to non-jazz buyers-

ie what does a rock-or a non-jazz guitarist decide to buy when he wants a jazz box....

to me that is the downside

i am neither a collector nor an investor-i am a player and dont sell any of my stuff-but i do know, more or less, the market because im always interested -

'main stream' guitars -ie big name makers and popular models seem to hold value-you know, teles, strats lesters, gretsches, ricky, older Epis etc-

es 175, L5 etc also seem to continue to command high re-sale

so look into this aspect

otoh theres no substitute for a great axe and its simply another consideration

for example-
as i have seen
an L5 by Gibson is goiung to re-sell more easily and for a lot more than a superior L5 made by jim triggs, or some other maker-(excluding for example bennedetto, or other 'legends' or collectable makers)

im not saying its black and white-im saying its a downside consideration

i have a couple of mid boutique gutiars -amazing insturments that i have bonded with -and im certain i wont recover my costs, even having bought one used, but thats OK

i only post so that you can consider this downside
its relevant if you plan on trading up, or know you will sell at some time etc

[John Link]

Buy yourself a neck-up guitar support and it will take care of all of your posture issues. Here is the website link:HAMRE MUSIC NECKUP Neck Up Guitar Support Strap Rest Accessory Strings CD

[Jim Soloway]

Compared to your 339, the downside of a true archtop is less versatility, a much larger body, more feedback problems, less sustain, more fragility/less stability.

The upside is a more traditional jazz tone.

Some people love archtops, others don't. One thing is certain though: it's a very different instrument than you are currently playing. My suggestion is to go try a bunch of them before you plunk your money on the table and be sure to try them at real work volume levels. It shouldn't be to hard to figure out for yourself if this is the direction you want to go.

[lukaas]

Thanksfor all the feedback fellas. Some intersting stuuf that I kinda knew but you nicely summed it up for me.



John Link... Thanks! This may be just what Ive been desperate for....

As far as the comedians on this thread, you all keep your day jobs now....

[lpdeluxe]

I've spent 40 years looking for the answer. The answer is, there is no answer. Music and life are too complicated. A full box jazzbo is too big: I'm used to the form factor of a 335. Solid bodies are too small (and, I'm talking about my Les Paul Deluxe and my Strat and my SG with a Bigsby -- not junk). Big box guitars feed back at low volumes and are picky about what amps they like.

So my question is, "why a big Jazz Box?" There are so many alternative that may be what you want, after all. The look is iconic, but I tailor my music to suit its own needs, not cosmetic issues. I loved the big jazz box I had, if looks were the only criterion, but I have to say, when push comes to shove, I go back to my 335 through a good Fender amp.

[lukaas]

LP deluxe Thankyou!!!

Exactly the sort of thoughts i was looking for.

[lukaas]

Im primarily hoping a box will be more comfortable for me to play, that the width and size will help me to have better posture(not slouched over )

from the short time ive had playing one this appears to be the case. I will have to spend more time to make sure of this.

As far as the rest of what comes with a jazzbo,I dont know what i dont know, if you will.

So how bad are the feedback issues?

How do the many jazz players who perform with jazzbos do so without sound dramas?

FYI I am a beginner but getting lessons from a teacher weekly, practicing two hours a day atm.

[oldane]

.... my point is that while few instruments are investments -there are many that tend to hold value due to inflation and increasing retail prices

i suggest that you buy an instrument especially a jazz guitar with that understanding

For my part, I have NEVER bought a guitar as an invenstment object an have not considered the resale value a lot. I have bought guitars I liked to play.

I believe it's with guitars as it is with art. You should buy it if you like it yourself. If you don't like it (apart from liking the famous brand name), forget it. BUT - if you have good taste, you may well buy something at a good price now, which will eventually turn out to be a good investment.

I bought a 1961 Gibson ES175 in 1973. It was considered a good guitar, but the prevailing taste was not for jazz boxes back then, so there were actually quite a few of them out there that people wanted to sell to get a Les Paul, and the prices of the used 175s reflected that. I still have that 175 and today I could sell it for at least 10 times what I payed for it in 1973. However, I didn't at all have resale value in mind when I bought it.

I bought a Benedetto Fratello from Bob Benedetto in 1996. I believe I could get for it what I payed him, but not more, as it was already expensive to begin with.

I assembled an ideosyncratic Warmoth partscaster a few years ago, which I love to play (more than the 175 to be frank). But if I should want to part with it, I figure I would have to pay someone to take it.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by lukaas

So how bad are the feedback issues?

Again, it's a matter of whether or not you try to play too loud for the particular combination of guitar and amp you have,

So, what's too loud?

Well, there are always exceptions to any general statement, but for the most part, players who work in small combos do just fine by playing plywood.

And that's one of the reasons why the Gibson ES-175 quickly became one of two guitars that are often referred to as a "de facto standard jazz guitar." You can play at a volume appropriate to working with a couple of horn players or a piano...a drummer who uses a jazz kit instead of a monstrous rock set up...and you're not likely to have feedback problems.

The other, of course, is the Gibson L5CES. With a thicker carved top than the acoustic version, and with one or two set in pickups, it is not the most feedback prone electric archtop by any means, but it is a fact that many players do struggle with its feedback.

But what's jazz? You want to play bebop in a combo, or do you envision yourself playing chord solos in an intimate supper club? That makes a difference as to what constitutes "loud," and that makes a difference as to what constitutes a "feedback issue."

How do the many jazz players who perform with jazzbos do so without sound dramas?

Plywood and set in pickup(s). That is not the ONLY possible solution/answer, but it is the most commonly applied solution...and has been for the past 60 years.

But who knows? This could be one of those damned tongue in cheek answers you don't like so much.