An amp simulator?

[spiral]

Originally Posted by harm.on.x

Well...., first of all, please keep your "LOL" comments to yourself!

Wow. When did this become personal? I was laughing at the fact that you were using a PA which would explain the big experience difference. I was very confused that you couldn't hear a difference but then you said you were playing through a speaker which makes more sense. I wasn't laughing at you.

Originally Posted by harm.on.x

Especially when you don't know what you are talking about. Last time I checked this forum was about helping fellow guitarists and not bash each other or try to impose ill informed opinions.

Aren't you bashing me by saying my opinion is ill-informed? Also, didn't you also offer an opinion based on hear-say from other forums? "The consensus was that BOTH units are a bit on the gainy side with clean tones being a toss up between the two." I don't think it is a tossup, and the HD doesn't sound grainy based on the clips i posted. We are the same amount of informed having owned the G3.

Originally Posted by harm.on.x

A modeler is simulating a miced amp in a room. NOT just an amp in a room. This is the idea behind modeling. The application is and should be more than just playing through your headphones at home though.

Exactly. Modeling should simulate a mic on a cab which is why the OP needs something that simulates that for recording, not for running it through a PA. If an amp plays in a room and there is no mic around, does it make a sound?

Originally Posted by harm.on.x

You are talking about Axe FX and HD with the conviction of an experienced user but you have admitted that you don't own or use any of the two units.

I mentioned some modeling products i've heard that sound realistic to me—so i am speaking as a listener that has sought out examples of them. Then i went on to say specifically the G3 modeling didn't sound good to me when i owned it and the interface was cumbersome which is why i sold it. If it works for you, great. From the start i said "hey i think this sounds great" about the HD (and posted clips) and that the G3 didn't sound good when i used it.

Originally Posted by harm.on.x

The headphone home noodling thing comes as an extra bonus.

I think in this case it is the exact point of the thread. The OP wanted a product that could record a guitar sound direct to a DAW presumably without mic'ing a speaker. I don't think the G3 would be good for that (based on my use), and the Pod HD would be (based on examples i have heard).

[harm.on.x]

Originally Posted by spiral

If an amp plays in a room and there is no mic around, does it make a sound? ....

You are very smart, aren't you?

Originally Posted by spiral

The OP wanted a product that could record a guitar sound direct to a DAW presumably without mic'ing a speaker.

I never said I miked any speaker. I used a PA speaker for playing LIVE.
I've done some tests recording direct and it worked fine for me. I'm sure that the HD would have also worked fine.
Now can you please give it a rest because the more stuff you post the more I realize that you have no idea what you are talking about. Enough!

[spiral]

Originally Posted by harm.on.x

I've done some tests recording direct and it worked fine for me. I'm sure that the HD would have also worked fine.

Can you post the clips? It would be useful to hear.

[Gramps]

Nearhigh,

Did you find a simulator?

[lpdeluxe]

I have a Floor Pod Plus that I often use when playing guitar. It has a decent "tweed" sound but most of the others are frankly cartoony. I don't know if that's because the mainstream guitars are cartoony (I don't listen to contemporary radio) or whether the target audience wants that sort of sound. In any case, there are a lot of presets on the thing, and I believe that Line 6 sound quality is higher than some of the others. I recorded a guy a few years ago using a Tele through one direct into the board. It was perfectly noiseless when no signal was present.

I use mine for a couple of FX that I like (wah and tremolo) without having two or three boxes on the floor.

As noted, there's no "Jazz" setting, however.

[fep]

I would ask that folks tell us the whole signal chain when they are evaluating an amp modeler.

Imo, running an amp modeler/simulator thru a guitar amp is like putting a mic on a guitar amp speaker and running it thru another guitar amp. That makes no sense.

An amp modeler should be run thru something with a full frequency response like a pa, a powered pa speaker, or a keyboard amp or direct to a board or computer for recording. If you're not running your amp modeler that way your evaluation of the product... well it's pretty meaningless imo.

In my sample of the gnx3000 on this thread I was running straight into a sound card on my computer for recording. When using it for playing live I run it thru two powered pa speakers (stereo, yummy).

[Jim Soloway]

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

I have a Floor Pod Plus that I often use when playing guitar. It has a decent "tweed" sound but most of the others are frankly cartoony. I don't know if that's because the mainstream guitars are cartoony (I don't listen to contemporary radio) or whether the target audience wants that sort of sound. In any case, there are a lot of presets on the thing, and I believe that Line 6 sound quality is higher than some of the others. I recorded a guy a few years ago using a Tele through one direct into the board. It was perfectly noiseless when no signal was present.

I use mine for a couple of FX that I like (wah and tremolo) without having two or three boxes on the floor.

As noted, there's no "Jazz" setting, however.

I have a Pod HD desk top unit and I've also owned the HD 300 and HD 500. Nothing cartoonish about those at all. They've come a long way since the earlier units and I find the jazz tones to be absolutely stellar.

And Fep, I absolutely agree. No modeling system can ever sound better than the output system that it's running through.

[Gramps]

I just got a Zoom G3 on Friday and have been messing with it quite a bit in the last couple days. The only thing I haven't done yet is record into the PC so I don't have any samples of sounds but am working on it.

I had a $200 budget and needed a couple of nice sounds and USB support for recording tracks to practice with. The G3 has about 10 sounds I can work with, a tuner,USB support, metronome and 40 second looper. If you can find patches you like it's a good deal.

I'm playing a Eastman Ar 805 CE and monitoring through a modest set of phones but it sounds good to my ear. If it sounds as good into the PC I'll be a happy boy.

[harm.on.x]

Originally Posted by Gramps

I'm playing a Eastman Ar 805 CE and monitoring through a modest set of phones but it sounds good to my ear. If it sounds as good into the PC I'll be a happy boy.

I'm glad it worked for you. Nothing nicer than being happy with a newly acquired piece of equipment.
It will sound even better recorded straight to your PC via USB.

Edit: Just bear in mind what I, Fep, and Jim have already mentioned about the monitoring system. I can't emphasize this enough.
If you ever had the chance to experiment with plugging an amp head into different cabs I'm sure you've noticed drastic changes in the amp's sound. Something similar applies to modelers too. In the amp-cab scenario the speaker colors the sound and adds it's own characteristics. In the modeller-monitor scenario the speaker influences the overall fidelity and faithful reproduction of the whole modeled signal chain (FX, amp, cab, and mic sims). I've plugged the same stuff to different PA systems and it does make a difference. Have fun!

[Gramps]

Ok, I recorded some sound sample from the G3.

This one I used the looper to create a blues minor bed track then used an octive patch to fake a bass part (bs part but you get the idea), and another patch for the solo. Next time through the solo I selected another patch and the final time through I just played around with other patches. There are mistakes in my playing but I hope this shows some of the tones well enough.

http://www.box.net/shared/3c7ygq8yql5q0eodaooz


I just listened to this on my work PC and it is much brighter than my home system.

[Gramps]

Here is a quick version of Stella by Starlight

http://www.box.net/shared/0jfua7u7e7kx0sfv8044

[elinfoot]

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

I've posted several videos on YouTube using a variety of Pod HD's (300, 500 and bean).

This was done with a desktop unit (the HD Bean) which is within the original poster's budget

Hi Jim,
I have a HD300 and I'm finding it difficult finding nice jazz clean sounds.I don't suppose that you could post the settings you used in the video?

Cheers
Eric

[TieDyedDevil]

You may also want to consider one of the current-generation Digitech modelers. I sometimes use an RP-355 (US$200 at most online retailers) when I don't want to carry my Eleven Rack and MIDI controller.

Your best approach, though, is to use your own ears. Audition units in your price range and buy the one that sounds best to you.

[Gramps]

Fep has a clip of him playing through a Digitech earlier in this thread. Sounds good.

I'm looking forward to going home to see what my files sound like there and in my car. They sound pretty nasty from my work PC. If they sounded like that at home or through my phones or car I never would have posted them. Real disapointing but if they sound ok in my car and home and through my phones I can asume the work PC is the problem.

[Nearhigh]

Originally Posted by Gramps

Nearhigh,

Did you find a simulator?

Not yet. I'm waiting for a used Pod HD to pop up, I already narrowly missed one. It's been very interesting to follow the replies and the samples!

[Gramps]

How much are used ones going for?

[Jim Soloway]

Originally Posted by elinfoot

Hi Jim,
I have a HD300 and I'm finding it difficult finding nice jazz clean sounds.I don't suppose that you could post the settings you used in the video?

Cheers
Eric

Sure. It's a pretty simple patch and I used something very similar on the 300. It's the Blackface Lux Nrm model with the Deluxe speaker and an SM57 On Axis. The amp settings are Drive 30; Bass 37; Mid 31; Treb 50; Pres 0; Channel Vol 74; ER 12%; Master 100%; Sag 50%; Hum 0; Bias 50; Bias X 50.

For effects, I'm running the Bias Trem (Tempo synch off; Speed 3.7; Depth 25%; Shape and Vol SNS far left; Mix around 23%) and Spring Reverb (Decay 50%; Pre Delay 100ms; Tone 50%; Mix 27%)

On the mixer, I have the channels panned hard left and right with two balanced mono cables, one running to my FRFR cab and the other to my recording interface/pre-amp.

And for those who aren't not using modelers, this may sound complicated but it's actually about as simple as a modeler can get. I think that's one of the problems that jazz players have with modelers: they over think the whole thing and put together patches that are way more complex than they need. Each added layer of complexity makes the sound more and more synthetic. So keep it simple and clean. In my experience, that works incredibly well.

[Jim Soloway]

Originally Posted by Gramps

How much are used ones going for?

A technophobic friend of mine just sold his for $325.

Doing this right is not really an inexpensive solution. Add the cost of a modeler to the price of a really good FRFR cabinet and the minimum buy-in is around $900-$1200.

[harm.on.x]

Originally Posted by Gramps

Ok, I recorded some sound sample from the G3.

Gramps, what did you use there? Care to share some of your settings?

Originally Posted by Gramps

I'm looking forward to going home to see what my files sound like there and in my car. They sound pretty nasty from my work PC.

I like what you're playing. There is a lot of background and picking attack noise though and this is probably what bothers you the most. If I understand the title of your sound files correctly you used the "normalize" function of your recording software. I personally always avoid it. It makes things sounding harsh, adds a lot of noise, exaggerates picking attack, etc.
If you get a healthy volume level from your modeler to your computer you don't need any "normalizing". Maaaybe a bit of post compression and that's pretty much it. Give it shot. It might work better and make you happier with your recordings.

I went to rehearsal with a new band today. There was another guitarist and a fairly heavy handed drummer. The other guitarist was playing through an AC30 and lots of pedals. I played my tele through a fuzz pedal and the G3. Balanced out going to a 19" power amp and a really nice passive PA cab. It sounded great! The other guitarist couldn't believe it. He thought he would totally bury me with his AC30 and I actually ended up cutting better through the mix. He said he's bringing his pod to the next rehearsal.
After that, I took the same rig (sans power amp and PA speaker) where I teach. Plugged to the PA there. Poorer quality PA resulted in less satisfying sound. Still fairly good though. Nothing major to complain about.
What I find the most amazing about this technology is this:
Today I spent the entire day going all around the city, using public transport, doing two different jobs and only carrying a guitar and a small case with the G3, the fuzz pedal, cables, music sheets, etc. On the way back home I picked up my 1 1/2 year old son from the baby sitter's house. Pushing the pram and carrying a bag with his stuff and my entire rig.
I finally reached the point where I felt like a violin or a horn player. The people I always envied! The people who turn up to gigs carrying almost nothing. The best bit is that while I was carrying minimal amounts of gear, I never felt I sacrificed my tone.

[Gramps]

Harm.on.x,

Im happy to share the patch info. Basically, I just found something in the ball park and tweeked it. Mostly, I pulled way back on the effects since I wanted the instruments to stand out for this demo. (Except Stella)

Since I've only had the G3 for three days I'm sure I'll keep messing with the patches and find some others I like.

You can download all my patches here
GrampsPatchesVer1.g3a - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage
comping='30 Clean'
bass= 'Octo Stomp' (I just pulled down the guitar and left the effect)
solo 1 = 'FD Clean'
Solo 2= 'FD Twang'
Solo 3 = 'Strings' and 'Pure Arp'

and Stella was just 'Pure Arp'

Thanks for the tip on normalization. I'll try it and if you have any patches to share I'd like to check them out too. Post something if you get a chance.

[harm.on.x]

Originally Posted by Gramps

Harm.on.x,
Thanks for the tip on normalization. I'll try it and if you have any patches to share I'd like to check them out too. Post something if you get a chance.

You're welcome. Thank you too for posting your patches. I checked them. I think you could get an even rounder and less noisy signal if you lower the presence control some. The G3 has a bright tonal signature across the board.
I use just one amp model. One patch for live and one for recording. I'll pm you my settings because I don't want to hijack the thread with that stuff.
Try to stay away from "normalization". It creates a lot of problems and IMO it solves none. Just monitor your input level on our channel strip led indicator and try to get a high enough volume level there. If you need to boost, do it from the preamp (the G3 in this case). The global and patch volume levels controls can come handy. There is also a USB recording level control.
PM is on the way...