How are the Polytone Mini Brain heads?

[hallpass]

How are the Polytone Mini Brain heads for guitar? I'm specifically tlaking about the older, 75 watt version. Someone is selling one locally and I'm curious. Seems they are designed for 4 ohm speaker load, but would 8 ohms also work? They look like this:

[jorgemg1984]

At 8 ohms you should have some power reduction. Old Polytones are much better than the old ones but I would definitely try it because apparently its hard to find two that sound alike.. is it far from you? how much is he asking? If you look for the sound of something like Polytone or Henriksen combos a Raezers Edge or Redstoen cabinet should put you there with the Mini Brain.

[jzucker]

reliability and support are issues for all things polytone...

[jorgemg1984]

Yes but sometimes I see polytones for 100 or 150 on US adds. For that price if I found one that sounded like the old polytone I tried, I would buy it.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by jzucker

reliability and support are issues for all things polytone...

I'm under the impression that there's actually NO support whatsoever.

As far as reliability, there seems to be two kinds of polytones--those that break down quickly, and those who's reverb breaks but the rest of the amp works essentially forever.

I think there's better choices out there for a small, lightweight jazz head, but if you can score it cheap, what the heck? At worst a backup...as long as it works.

[jorgemg1984]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I think there's better choices out there for a small, lightweight jazz head, but if you can score it cheap, what the heck? At worst a backup...as long as it works.

Exactly, at the right price it can be a good purchase.

[krusty]

I've used my Mini-Brain for several years now, sometimes running a hot signal into it from a recording preamp. It has performed flawlessly. However, there does not seem to be a wide range of settings that sounds good. I had to tweak for quite some time until I found a good sound. Deviation from the narrow band of adjustments around that particular setting produced unacceptable (to me) tone. One could argue because of that, that it has a very wide range of adjustability, so that finding a good sound with any guitar should be possible.

For the right price, it's definitely worth a try.

[hallpass]

Appreciate the feedback. Turns out it sold quick on craigslist and is gone now anyhow. It was cheap enough I was gonna try to get it and use it as a backup.

I use a EHX 22 Caliber now as a backup...and hope to swap for the 44 Magnum sooner than later.

[Allenl]

Originally Posted by krusty

I've used my Mini-Brain for several years now, sometimes running a hot signal into it from a recording preamp. It has performed flawlessly. However, there does not seem to be a wide range of settings that sounds good. I had to tweak for quite some time until I found a good sound. Deviation from the narrow band of adjustments around that particular setting produced unacceptable (to me) tone. One could argue because of that, that it has a very wide range of adjustability, so that finding a good sound with any guitar should be possible.

For the right price, it's definitely worth a try.

Jimmy Bruno used one for years and had a wonderful tone. I still have one (mini brain head) that I bought off of EBAY about 6-7 years ago. The problem with mine was, after about 1.5 hours, It started to get this cycling loud hum. I came to the conclusion there must be a failing component that was sensitive to heat. I routed out a two inch diameter hole in the back and installed a small cooling fan under the head cabinet. since then I've cooked the amp for over 4 hours non stop and no more cycling humming issues.

My mini-brain sounds really good through a Raezer twin 8 cabinet, especially with my 335.

[jorgemg1984]

Anyone who thinks Bruno has a wonderful tone (really?) will like a Polytone.

[Allenl]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Anyone who thinks Bruno has a wonderful tone (really?) will like a Polytone.

I don't think anyone can argue that Bruno has clean articulate chops. Case in point is, you don't need to spend mega bucks to get your tone. The Polytones can be dialed in for a darker tone or something with more treble presence. Joe Pass also played Polytones.

[jorgemg1984]

"Clean articulate chops" is very different from "wonderful tone". But again - anyone who thinks Pass has a wonderful tone (really?) will like a Polytone.

PS 1 - I respect both players (although they are not exactly my type of guitar players) but they are not famous their tone.

PS 2 - They used Polytones for practical reasons not for the tone. In today's world you have much better alternatives unless you score a real cheap second hand Polytone.

[cjm]

Tone. Tone. Tone this. Tone that. To hell with tone.

Some of the recognized great jazz guitarists obsessed over tone. Johnny Smith, for one.

Some didn't. Barney Kessel for one. And if you look at some of the gear a lot of these guys used, it becomes apparent that most of them weren't very obsessive about their gear and their tone.

They were obsessed mostly with playing jazz guitar.

But whether they obsessed (or if alive, still obsess) over tone or not, the recognized great jazz guitarists were recognized as great because of the musical content of what they played. Not for the tone their gear was capable of producing. Not for sound altering electronic gimmicks.

I doubt there are any "A-List" guitar players posting here under a pseudonym. Most of us are working in the minor leagues and some of us are pretty much hacks, and that last bit applies to me in spades. And that's okay, as long as we're doing what it takes to be the best we can be. There can only be one Wes Montgomery and only one Tal Farlow and one...

As a hack guitar player myself, I used to obsess over tone and spent some pretty good back pocket money on carved spruce and the "must have" amps of the day.

The irony of me "needing" a better guitar and amp than the famous "A-List" player I was trying to emulate played, always somehow managed to escape me.

As long as it works reliably, the Mini Brain will do just fine.

[jorgemg1984]

Well, this forum is about gear and tone right? If you investigate you will know these guys used Polytones for practical issues not for their sound. And the point is these days there are much better alternatives to Polytone amps.

Tone is a very important thing imo. I can get the point that gear might not get you a better sound (which I think it can actually) but saying tone is irrelevant and that all you have to do is play great lines - I am sorry its not true. Not true for any instrument.

Maybe its a coincindence but most guitar players that didn't care about tone - Pass, Kessell, Bruno - I also don't like their playing.

A lot of A-league players obsess about tone. Maybe they don't come here but they do investigate a lot. I am not saying all players do that but a lot do (go to gearslutz forum and check Rosenwinkel asking for advice). Most use a specific guitar and a specific amp and specific pedals - its not random. And there are tons of B-league and C-league players with a wonderful tone that can give you good advice (and some A-league players with terrible tone).

[cjm]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Well, this forum is about gear and tone right?

Quite true, but discounting the importance of much of what is marketed to jazz players as essential is one aspect of that discussion.

Maybe its a coincindence but most guitar players that didn't care about tone - Pass, Kessell, Bruno - I also don't like their playing.

And that is a matter of taste and perspective...these are three players I like very much.

I am not saying all players do that but a lot do (go to gearslutz forum and check Rosenwinkel asking for advice

And the advice I would give Rosenwinkel is to ditch all the other effects, and then to turn down the reverb to about half of what he typically uses when he's playing clean.

Yes it's all taste and perspective, but at some point you have to ask where does creativity and skill end to become more a demonstration of the electronic gear one can purchase?

I mean, I'm not much of a guitar player, but I used to play a mean phonograph.

[jorgemg1984]

"Quite true, but discounting the importance of much of what is marketed to jazz players as essential is one aspect of that discussion"

Polytone is the king of marketing for jazz players. Open one of the new ones and prepare yourself to get scared...

"And that is a matter of taste and perspective...these are three players I like very much"

No doubt, its my personal opinion not a fact. I really think they all have terrible guitar tones and their solos don't quite inspire me (except Joe Pass solo guitar which is good - maybe great if you never heard Martin Taylor)

"And the advice I would give Rosenwinkel is to ditch all the other effects, and then to turn down the reverb to about half of what he typically uses when he's playing clean"

Again a matter of opinion, to me he is the best example of what gear can do to help you with your sound.

Yes it's all taste and perspective, but at some point you have to ask where does creativity and skill end to become more a demonstration of the electronic gear one can purchase?

"I mean, I'm not much of a guitar player, but I used to play a mean phonograph"

Ha Ha

[Allenl]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

"Clean articulate chops" is very different from "wonderful tone". But again - anyone who thinks Pass has a wonderful tone (really?) will like a Polytone.

PS 1 - I respect both players (although they are not exactly my type of guitar players) but they are not famous their tone.

PS 2 - They used Polytones for practical reasons not for the tone. In today's world you have much better alternatives unless you score a real cheap second hand Polytone.

First off, clean articulate chops is a prequisite to a great sound. If you're talking about dark versus brighter, that's what tone controls are for. The main point I'm making is, a great sound is mainly in the hands of the player and not the gear. Sure, great gear allows greater degrees of manipulation, but will not make up for sloppy playing. The best players never worry about gear. They can make any guitar & amp sound good, with subtle adjustments to their technique.

Simple things such as pick thickness, material the pick is made of and a sharper versus a rounder point will all make noticeable changes to the final tone.

I just don't want young players to have to think they must have exotic expensive guitars and amps to get great tone. This is all subjective. If every player worked on improving their technique, good tone will naturally fall in place.

[jorgemg1984]

No its not just bright vs dark (and tone controls are not the only variable there, amps are very important also). IMO Joe Pass or Jimmy Bruno don't have a good tone, just that. Pass is very sloppy. Bruno has a great technique what I usually don't like in his sound is that you hear the pick a lot and the lack of reverb. But Bruno has a much better tone than Pass. Here are two good examples:

Jimmy Bruno Plays "Joy Spring" - YouTube

Joe Pass Trio Club Date San Diego 1990 - YouTube

"The main point I'm making is, a great sound is mainly in the hands of the player and not the gear." This is partially true. I have seen Rosenwinkel play with just a Twin Reverb - great sound but not "his" sound. Have also seen Bernstein play with a regular fender - great sound but not "his" sound. A lot of the sound is in the hands but I wouldn't say everything. Gear does matter.

"The best players never worry about gear" Also not true. If you are talking about guys that just use an archtop and a good clean amp might be true IF they already found an archtop and an amp that suits their playing (Bernstein fell in love with is Zeidler and also stated the Vibrolux he uses suits him good because he doesn't have to roll the tone tone knob all the way down). But a lot of great players change gear during the years, just do a little googling and you will see they do get new guitars, new pedals, new amps - some guys even new picks or new cables. Sometimes it might be an endorsement but others is just because they found new stuff they liked. Just on this forum you have Jack Zucker posting and on AAJ you have Vic Juris.

"Simple things such as pick thickness, material the pick is made of and a sharper versus a rounder point will all make noticeable changes to the final tone." Very true, pick is often forgotten by players and the cheap and fastest way of changing your tone. But the list of things that change your tone is endless - pickups, cables, amps, electronics inside guitars and amps, speakers, picks, ...

"I just don't want young players to have to think they must have exotic expensive guitars and amps to get great tone. This is all subjective. If every player worked on improving their technique, good tone will naturally fall in place." No doubt, gear wont make you sound good, makes you sound better. If you don't sound good in the first place go home and practice. But if you already can sound good gear can make you take the next step. I don't agree technique and tone are the same thing - Bruno is a good example of great technique and OK tone and guys like Bernstein or Hall are a good example of the opposite.

[Gramps]

Jorgemg1984,

In this thread http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...iece-band.html

you state that you don't like the sound of a particular amp and I provided a link to someone playing through it and sounding amazing. You're reaction was that that guitar player can make anything sound good (he can) which seems to go against your current statements about the importance of gear.

Just saying....

[jorgemg1984]

Yes true, you caught me. But I said that in a different context and he sounds better using his deluxe reverb than using that Cube (He is a good example actually, just switched from a great Gibson to a Baker and he says he prefers Deluxes to other fenders so gear is not irrelevant to him)

EDIT: The fact that a guy can make any amp sound good doesn't mean gear is irrelevant and doesn't mean he will choose any random amp / guitar. Gilad would probably go to a GC and make 90% of the amps sound good but he clearly has his preference (if you do a google search he even lists Fender amps by order or preference so he is deep into gear)

[Allenl]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

No its not just bright vs dark (and tone controls are not the only variable there, amps are very important also). IMO Joe Pass or Jimmy Bruno don't have a good tone, just that. Pass is very sloppy. Bruno has a great technique what I usually don't like in his sound is that you hear the pick a lot and the lack of reverb. But Bruno has a much better tone than Pass. Here are two good examples:

Jimmy Bruno Plays "Joy Spring" - YouTube

Joe Pass Trio Club Date San Diego 1990 - YouTube

"The main point I'm making is, a great sound is mainly in the hands of the player and not the gear." This is partially true. I have seen Rosenwinkel play with just a Twin Reverb - great sound but not "his" sound. Have also seen Bernstein play with a regular fender - great sound but not "his" sound. A lot of the sound is in the hands but I wouldn't say everything. Gear does matter.

"The best players never worry about gear" Also not true. If you are talking about guys that just use an archtop and a good clean amp might be true IF they already found an archtop and an amp that suits their playing (Bernstein fell in love with is Zeidler and also stated the Vibrolux he uses suits him good because he doesn't have to roll the tone tone knob all the way down). But a lot of great players change gear during the years, just do a little googling and you will see they do get new guitars, new pedals, new amps - some guys even new picks or new cables. Sometimes it might be an endorsement but others is just because they found new stuff they liked. Just on this forum you have Jack Zucker posting and on AAJ you have Vic Juris.

"Simple things such as pick thickness, material the pick is made of and a sharper versus a rounder point will all make noticeable changes to the final tone." Very true, pick is often forgotten by players and the cheap and fastest way of changing your tone. But the list of things that change your tone is endless - pickups, cables, amps, electronics inside guitars and amps, speakers, picks, ...

"I just don't want young players to have to think they must have exotic expensive guitars and amps to get great tone. This is all subjective. If every player worked on improving their technique, good tone will naturally fall in place." No doubt, gear wont make you sound good, makes you sound better. If you don't sound good in the first place go home and practice. But if you already can sound good gear can make you take the next step. I don't agree technique and tone are the same thing - Bruno is a good example of great technique and OK tone and guys like Bernstein or Hall are a good example of the opposite.

I have seen Jimmy Bruno and Joe Pass live on many occasions over the years and I will have to disagree with you on your comment "Pass has sloppy chops." The video you referenced is old and obviously degraded. He has many recordings that will substantiate his capabilities.

You are obviously not a fan of Bruno and Pass's brighter tones, but that doesn't make their tones bad. Bruno has gone through different amps (Polytone, AER, Acoustic Image and Henriksen if I'm not mistaken) and his fundamental tone remains pretty much the same, because that's his preference.

Everyone has their own perception of what the ideal jazz tone should be and guess what.....everyone is right!

[jorgemg1984]

The video is 1990, he died in 1994... I know most people will disagree with me but I am fairly aware of his work and I think he has "sloppy chops". Just a personal opinion. Love his work with Ella and his solo guitar and that's it.

Bruno went trough all those amps that are actually sort of similar and his tone is indeed the same - he doesn't care about gear so its natural his sound doesn't change that much. Its a valid option.

I have nothing against bright tones, Gilad Hekselman has a bright tone to me in his first two records and I really like it. Wes also has a bright tone on some records and I also love it. Bernstein sound is also a little on the bright side and its phenomenal to me.

Yes, you are right - a lot of people want to achieve that dry Pass / Bruno sound and everyone is free to have his own conception of sound. To me a good archtop trough amp sound (no effects but reverb from the amp) means Wes, Hall, Bernstein, Anthony Wilson...

About the original thread a good working and at a good price Polytone is just fine for a Pass / Bruno sound.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

About the original thread a good working and at a good price Polytone is just fine for a Pass / Bruno sound.

Would it work okay for sort of a cross between Herb Ellis and Yngwie Malmsteen?

[jorgemg1984]

Try it

[cjm]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Try it

Don't really need to. That's pretty much the sound I get already with what I've already got, although some claim they also hear a bit of Tiny Tim's ukulele in my chord work.

[jorgemg1984]

Wow any clips of that?