Yunzhi guitars

spiral · #1 09-07-2011, 11:06 AM

I've been PM-ing with BigMikeNJ about his custom Yunzhi guitar and he is very positive about it. Dave the luthier on YouTube was also really impressed with the craftsmanship (apart from the electronics which were a disaster).

I'm curious if other people have taken the chance on one, could share experiences, thoughts, photos, and/or clips.

BigMikeinNJ · #2 09-07-2011, 02:44 PM

Last summer I saw a really sharp hand made arch top on eBay, looked JUST like an Eastman 810ce 5th Anniversary model, it had no name on the headstock. I bought it and posted on the Ibanez Collector's World Forum about it. Another member there piped up and said, Hey Mike I think that isn't a Eastman, but a Yunzhi. He too had bought one on eBay from someone and really loved it, still has it. I then started looking at Yunzhi's site and for a long time was reluctant to pull the trigger, but then contacted them and Ms. Lora wrote back to me, very literate and soft spoken person, Ms. Lora. I was able to arrange using PayPal with them which made me feel more protected. 10 weeks later I had my guitar, a real beauty.

http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/foru...c,24876.0.html

I had another fellow contact me some time back, his name is George Glover, he'd seen my thread on ICW and wrote, and I gave him the same positive reviews on my experiences with Yunzhi. He went ahead and custom ordered a 7 string. Here is a thread on the Ibanez Collectors World Forum where George talks about his experience and on Page 3 of the thread he has pictures posted of the 7 string Yunzhi is making for him. He too is working via Ms. Lora and is very happy.

http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/foru...c,26116.0.html

I am sure you are very excited, maybe a little jittery, that you went with someone in CHINA that you don't know. A few of the feelings I had when I did my deal with them. Relax man, you're in very capable hands. Get a good book or a short term girl friend to keep you busy the next 10 weeks or so.
.

JohnW400 · #3 09-07-2011, 02:49 PM

I wonder if that's the company that builds A Mano guitars.

BigMikeinNJ · #4 09-07-2011, 02:57 PM

John

It very likely is. I was speaking with Pete here about that very company. They essentially are using someone like Yunzhi who is building batches of guitars for him... I saw the site, sort of liked the D'Aquisto Solo inspired sound holes.

From my experience, you tell Yunzhi what you want, send them photos or detailed sketches and they will do their best, at a VERY reasonable price point. Honest hard working people.

MGI · #5 09-07-2011, 03:35 PM

I know this factory very well, the owner is one of the Eastman founders, but years ago he decided to open his own business, and took some of the workers and wood with him. They do carve tops/backs by hands, they do have 20+ years old wood, but honestly - there's no real archtop building knowledge. Guitars are beautifully finished, but carving is absolutely wrong. One of my friends, a dealer, ordered 10 guitars from them 2 years ago, and still didn't sell any. I'm in good contact with one of their team, and here's the pictures of their last creations, that she sent me.

MGI · #6 09-07-2011, 03:49 PM

A few pictures of Yunzhi workshop and their last design.

BigMikeinNJ · #7 09-07-2011, 04:09 PM

MGI

I find your comments about not knowing about carving most interesting in light of the TWO Yunzhi's I've had. I'll have to tell that to my YZ23 BigMike Special, which I find especially sweet playing and sounding. Based on what you said about Yunzhi breaking off from Eastman and going it's own way: Eastman spent the last 50 years making violins, cellos and violas before venturing into more "popular" instruments like arch top guitars and other hollowbodys.

I will say this, I sold an Eastman T146smd (with SD Seth Lovers) and the first Yunzhi (the 810ce 5th Anniversary clone) to a dealer and he loves them. BUT he still has them in his store. Know why ?? People are afraid to buy something that is Chinese made. And in the case of many of the Yunzhi models that made it to America, it doesn't say GIBSON on the headstock and people are worried if they buy it now and later want something different will have trouble selling "an unknown brand" guitar...

A real shame. Though being almost 65 I have seen this problem in the past, back in the mid-60s when I saw my first Ibanez guitar at an international trade show in Chicago at McCormick Place (the original one). I liked it so much I found a dealer on the FAR south side importing them. Look where Ibanez took itself in the last 50 years...

Chinese hand carved instruments are the new paradigm. Go find a couple of Eastmans to play and decide for yourself folks (remember the Yunzhi company has essentially offered you the same instruments without the dealer network and the price markups along the way), plus the option to have them do your dream guitar to your specs.

gglover · #8 09-07-2011, 04:55 PM

Hey spiral,

I am in the process of having my guitar built by Yunzhi right now. They have been excellent to work with. After following Mike's Yunzhi build on the Ibanez forums I took the plunge. I have no worries whatsoever about this company of their guitars. You must very specific with pictures to show exactly what you want English is not their first language). Be very specific and cordial and you will have a great experience. Mike has posted my thread up above and I am posting all of the build pics and info that I get. Check it out and good luck. I would love to see a build forum if you d get a guitar from them!

Thanks,
George

spiral · #9 09-07-2011, 06:20 PM

@ GGlover & BigMikeInNJ The thread you are talking about is what i linked to in my post. That is how i realized mike posts on this board too: i recognized his Pizano guitar photo.

@ BigMikeInNJ: I'm not jittery or any of those other adjectives. I am just being a choosy consumer. I've wasted big $$ on guitars i didn't know anything about from reputable makers, so my lack of spending control isn't an issue. At the same time, my favorite guitar is the Chinese-made Loar so i don't really have any globalization hangups either. It is enough money that i don't want to throw it in the wind, but not enough that i will lose my house / pants / cats.

@ MGI: Thanks for the detail and cool photos. Can you explain what you think is wrong with the carving? As for your dealer friend, aren't they not selling because it is such a niche market and the crowd that buys them tend to be very traditional? ie. stick to brands they know? I like that no one knows the name; you get more for the money. I loved Harmony guitars until eBay/the internet happened.

MGI · #10 09-07-2011, 06:48 PM

Spiral, look on the pictures - cutaway/horn area of the top and the back, and you'll see.

spiral · #11 09-07-2011, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGI

Spiral, look on the pictures - cutaway/horn area of the top and the back, and you'll see.

Seems like a bad template issue, not necessarily the plate carving. I've seen their more traditional shapes and they look fine:

You are talking about the body shape?

MGI · #12 09-07-2011, 11:06 PM

No, I'm talking about top and back carve in the horn/cutaway area. Don't you see it???

spiral · #13 09-07-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGI

No, I'm talking about top and back carve in the horn/cutaway area. Don't you see it???

Not really.

There is no reflection so i can't see how it is carved. The body shape is pretty "fascinating" though. What are you seeing?

MGI · #14 09-07-2011, 11:14 PM

This:

Ask any luthier, is it correct carving or not.

spiral · #15 09-07-2011, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGI

Ask any luthier, is it correct carving or not.

got it. Though you were talking about the blonde. It's funny that I just had a conversation about this last month. A guy came to look at my L7 and was pointing out that Dan Koentopp (local luthier) told him about carving the plate and then doing the cutout. The Gibson L7 (reissue) is carved with the cutaway like picture above. Looks like Eastmans are that way too. Don't know if that is bad or good but it sounds like a strength issue.

What's your take on it?

MGI · #16 09-07-2011, 11:34 PM

It make upper part of the top non-working. The top (and back) can't vibrate freely with such a carve. And, of course, it lead to the loss of volume and projection. Tone still could be sweet, but the overall sound will be kinda chocked. Also, they practically don't have any recurve, and it's big no-no in archtops building.

gglover · #17 09-08-2011, 12:38 AM

MGI,

This is in no way meant to be calling you out, but what experience do you have analyzing photos of archtops? I think I saw that you're an amateur luthier? I also am an amateur luthier (studied with Tom Ribbecke in Healdsburg CA) and I do not see what you are talking about. Could it be that the light is just tricking you? Have you ever held a Yunzhi guitar in your hands? They certainly appear to have recurve from all of the pics I have seen (this is never shown well in photos unless you are trying to show it).

Here are a few photos which look identical
Benedetto 16B and Hopkins Grand Marquis

Ah Hell my photos won't load! I am new to the forum and clicked the link below to attach files- they are less than 100Kb and less than 620 by 280?

Please tell me how to load photos and I will put them up soon.

Thanks

BigMikeinNJ · #18 09-08-2011, 06:26 AM

I likewise am not calling you out MGI but having owned 3 Eastmans and 2 Yunzhi's I have not experienced the problems you described. Here's a back shot of the Yunzhi & Eastman John Pisano models... see anything ??

here's the Yunzhi 810ce 5th Anniversary clone, all I ever played it was acoustic and it's a real sweet sounding guitar - I've had my share of awesome arch tops so I think my ears know what good tone is.

By the way I also repeat my thanks for the great photos you have posted - very nice seeing people at work designing and building guitars - by hand.

gglover · #19 09-08-2011, 11:17 AM

Mike,

how did you post your pics?

MGI · #20 09-08-2011, 11:20 AM

BigMike, the picture of your Yunzhi won't show anything, because it's natural color. More visible on bursts, like it's visible on that brown guitar's top. . And look on your last picture - it's correct carve of the back.
gglover - sure you are an amateur, but I build archtops for 25+ years. And yes, I've held Yunzhi guitars in my hands, many of them. Maybe, you didn't read my post, where I stated, that I know this company very well.

MGI · #21 09-08-2011, 11:27 AM

Here's an example of correct carving:

gglover · #22 09-08-2011, 12:15 PM

Ok think I got the pics up. These pics have the exact same glare patterns on them. The first is a Benedetto Bravo (notice the glare is exactly the same in every aspect), the second a Hopkins Monarch (2 very well respected builders.)

I think this just has to do with the angle of the lighting on a curved surface. If we can't trust Benedetto's carving than what should we be comparing things too??

@ MGI- Thanks for the reply. I see you did visit Yunzhi and therefore do have first hand knowledge of their practices, and appreciate your input. But these pics tell the same story?

gglover · #23 09-08-2011, 12:58 PM

here are 2 more shots of a Benedetto Bravo with the same carved patterns.

MGI · #24 09-08-2011, 01:02 PM

The picture of Benedetto shows the reflection of the ceiling lamp.
I held many Benedettos in my hands, the carving is absolutely correct.
Hopkins Monarch better, than Yunzhi, on Yunzhi the carve is much more pronounced. It looks like a sausage on the horn.

spiral · #25 09-08-2011, 02:35 PM

Thanks for the info. I understand the idea and have seen a mix of right and wrong in guitars from luthiers whom i respect.

Other thoughts? Clips? Photos?

marshall · #26 09-08-2011, 04:18 PM

Greetings:I have two yunzhi archtops.I'm not a luithier not even a good jazz guitar player.But I love both of them.I got lucky and picked both of them up at a very good price on the bay.A little fret touch up on one,slight adjustment on the other and two guitars that are to me worth two or three times what I gave for them.With care my sons will have a fine guitar when I can no longer enjoy them. I could not ask for a better guitar . Anyway just my two cents.

TruthHertz · #27 01-09-2012, 06:16 AM

Update: I've seen quite a few, under different names, under theirs. Inconsistent, problems with neck angles (sometimes the bridge height is right, sometimes bottoming out too close to the top), sometimes sharp fret ends, sometimes ok, but the electronics are consistently wonky, like really cheap pots, buzzing, wiring fit for toys, and grounding/hot wires in reverse. All of these things are in evidence in instruments as recent as early 2012. Many of them could be remedied by costly attention by the dealer at the recipient end (if you're a luthier with good wiring chops, you can wind up with a very nice instrument. If not, it will cost you.) And they do seem very nice, but watch out. They are still in what seems like the beta testing phase and it's a crap shoot if you're looking for an instrument to seriously play. There are graduating and tuning issues that can result in some wolf notes and weak notes, but in others they are strong all the way through. Maybe they have different carvers, maybe they don't tap tune, who knows. One thing for sure, they are lacking in basic QC. If you want eye candy, they will stand most favourably next to an Eastman. If you want to play it, have a luthier at this end.
David