Polytone vs. tube

[exarctly]

I have been sort of through a few tube amps. Some I didn't like. But I still buy in to the idea that there is one out there for me, and that tube amps are probably the best.

That said. The amp that has impressed me the most, is this Polytone old minibrute (not sure how old) that is in a studio that I work in. Maybe it is also the sound of the room too, as it is nicely soundproofed. It may have a 15 inch speaker that was forced in there. Not sure how it may have been modded over the years.

I guess I was wondering if other people would favor a polytone vs a tube amp. I know they are well known for jazz. Or who out there thinks that as nice as Polytones can sound, even for jazz tube amps are simply better.

But before you answer. I am looking for something that will do everything well. Or at least acceptable. Jazz I play the most, but also jazz fusion, rock, blues, country. Whatever. I love great clean tones and I love a nice over drive. Of course that can be gotten with a pedal, so I will not fault the Polytone for that.

The answer I am expecting or leaning toward, is that I should get the Polytone for jazz if I like it, but then a tube amp for a more crisp sound on the rock type stuff.

I have tried finding this in earlier threads, but I want a more direct comparison or general comparison directly between a good Polytone and a good tube amp of any variety. So it is not Polytone vs. something specific like Fender Dr Z Vox...the question is does Polytone hold up and how well against your favorite tube amp.

And for some it might depend on if you are talking about a practice vs a gigging amp as tube amps sometimes need more volume. I am not looking for that feedback because I am specifically looking for what is best over all and can handle gigging in various formats as well.

Which again is why I think I may be told I may need both. One for small gigs and practicing, the other for larger gigs. Can the Polytone thrive in non jazz gigs?

Thanks

[jorgemg1984]

Just want to say that old Polytones sound much better than new ones. Speaker swaps are also frequent so you might try to check exactly what has been done to that amp.

You can always put pedals in front of a Polytone but I think most rockers wouldn't like the sound... Its really hard to find something that excels at rock and jazz, maybe a well tuned Fender with a good pedalboard or some boutique amps. I think solid state are always considered a little sterile for rock or even for jazz by some people. And you might also check other good options that are made these days like Henriksen, Evans, Acoustic Image... but I would say 90% of the owners of these amps just use them for jazz or really clean stuff, some might not even sound that great with a solidbody.

[Jake Hanlon]

I used to play an old polytone a lot years ago, it wasn't mine it belonged to the school I was at and I thought it was great. Up until then I was a tube amp man that used tubes for everything and loved them. The sound of that polytone turned me on to quality ss amps and the last 3 amps I've bought since have been solid state amps.

I wouldn't buy a new polytone if I'm honest, the Henriksen amp I have just makes my day and I love it to pieces. If I were in the market for another amp, I'd buy another henriksen in a heartbeat. The problem with Polytones are that they sort of have a poor reputation for customer service and for somewhat unreliable product in terms of the fuses or whatever else breaks down a lot. Since I've never owned one I am only talking about reputation and not really my own experience, some people I know have never had a problem with their Polytone, others got rid of theirs after too many trips to the repair shop, it's sort of a "buyer beware" thing I suppose.

Tube amps are great still. I play through one every day almost and it's not even a great one, it's passable. I suppose I would like to upgrade it but really it's not worth my money if I'm just going to be gigging and recording with the Henriksen at the end of the day.

[Meggy]

I've had a Polytone Minibrute 2 (12" speaker) since the mid '90's - I think I may have got it in '94 or '95. Anyway, it has been totally reliable, which I'm grateful for since I do understand they can be a bit of a pig to get fixed, and like everyone, I hear the stories about the company being a bit unhelpful. But IMO an excellent jazz amp, and used with a pedal setup, pretty good for fusion stuff too, not that I have played much in this style in recent years.

Is it the best jazz amp out there? Subjective, but IMO no - I can well believe that there are tube amps that I would like the sound of better. In fact I recently got an old Yamaha solid state amp (G50-112) and actually I like that better as a jazz amp overall. But the Polytone is still a very nice jazz amp I think, and has certain qualities I do like a lot, so I've no plans to sell it on. I don't find it very versatile for other styles like rock/country etc. personally - I would want something else for that stuff!

Just my thoughts in case they are of any help!

[krusty]

I love my Polytone, and for jazz, it's my preference. However, I have also in a pinch used my Mesa/Boogie Triaxis preamp and 2:90 amplifier, with a TC G-Major 2 in between. The 2:90 is 90watts into each of 2 channels. It just has so darned much clean headroom that with careful setting of the preamp, actually gives me a fantastic jazz tone. Not exactly the type of rig one might consider when playing jazz, but it certainly has proven versatile.

[mr. beaumont]

I like the weight size vs. Volume ratio of solid state amps, and I enjoy a good solid state amp's tone. I own both a polytone and a henriksen, I use the henriksen more as I have even more control over the eq, but I'm not selling my polytone anytime soon, if ever.

Tube amps are fine, but for really transparent cleans that work even at low volumes, solid state is king to me. I do own, play, and enhoy tube amps, but if I could have only one amp it would be my henriksen.

I do not think, however, that these solid state "jazz" amps are kings of versatility...I imagine that what ever you put in front of them to alter the tone could work, but I find I really only like overdriven tones if they're "real," the product of a tube amp...I haven't found a pedal that gets that tone right, but then again, my ears are probably over critical as I am not really a fan of overdriven tones anyway.

When it comes to guitars and amps, I'm not too into "versatility." I like different tools for different jobs...but maybe that's how I rationalize buying more guitars and amps

[zizala]

I was recently given a circa '77 Polytone Mini-brute III with a 15" speaker.

The speaker was kicked in and after a brief search for a 4 ohm replacement, I installed an 8 ohm Eminence Legend that was left over from another project.

The thing sounds great to me......my first solid state amp played among a variety of older Fender and Gibson tube amps and it holds up quite well, but with its own character. Lots of punch that I enjoy quite a lot when playing single note lines.

I'm not a "mittens on the strings" kind of player......I like some edge and chime sometimes. I'd always assumed a Polytone would not make me happy. But using the bright switch and some EQ adjustment gets this in the right neighborhood....maybe the Legend 15 is somehow a good match too. This handles a full sound spectrum with my old McCarty L-7's, ES-300 and numerous old single coil Guilds quite nicely.

I won't give up my Tweed Pro, Fender Princeton and any or those old funky Gibson BR's and GA's, but the Polytone is getting lots of play time lately.

So I bought another for $100 on Craigslist just to fuss around with!

ziz

[Meggy]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I like the weight size vs. Volume ratio of solid state amps ...

... for really transparent cleans that work even at low volumes, solid state is king to me. ...

I would agree with these statements, certainly with regard to the Polytone. I don't have a lot of experience with tube amps, but I do know that some of them are not light! I use the Polytone in a small pub, and also for occasional gigs that need a fair bit more volume, and just take it for granted that I will be able to get my tone in either situation.

[Anandbhat]

I have a Polytone minibrute II from the 70's and I must say that it's a 'one trick pony' from my perspective.It's good for jazz,especially if you like a compressed (muted) sound.The overdrive is not very good.I like my 65 DRRI and Superchamp XD better especially for overdrive etc.

[kawa]

The current model is a most useful by sonic circuit and enough very nice sound.

(post again) Polytone Mini Brute Ⅱ

1. YouTube - ‪Polytone‬‏

2. YouTube - ‪darn that dream 3GJT‬‏

3. YouTube - ‪Fast Bb Blues , Gibson es 175 with Polytone mini brute plus 2‬‏

4. YouTube - ‪The Guitar Lounge -- EastmanT145 and Polytone Minibrute 2‬‏

5. YouTube - ‪GROOVE BLUES SOLO, TESTING POLYTONE MINIBRUTE PLUS 2 WITH IBANEZ 335 SCOFIELD MODEL VINTAGE‬‏

6. YouTube - ‪"Falling Grace" - practicing with new gear.‬‏ Mini-brute Ⅳ

7. YouTube - ‪Rick Stone Trio "Nobody Else But Me"‬‏

8. YouTube - ‪Rick Stone Trio "Giant Steps"‬‏

__________________

[jorgemg1984]

The pre sonic circuit are cheaper and sound better from my experience

[skiboyny]

I have a old Polytone 102 it's the wattage of the 104 but with 1 12" and 2 8" packed in somehow. It's a real nice sounding amp for jazz but my Princeton clone 20watt side by side beats it hands down. The Polytone is flat by comparison. The Princeton has a much more complex sound and is more expressive by far. Probably not suitable for large gigs though. I wouldn't say the Polytone is anything you would want to use for much else then a jazz sound.

[Anandbhat]

Thanks for the links,Kawa.Some great guitars and playing too.The sonic circuit certainly makes the amp more brighter although sometimes there's a hiss unless I'm hearing things.
Again,I think the polytones are nice for traditional jazz but they have their limits for other types of music IMHO.

[AlohaJoe]

My '80s Poly is my usual first choice for clean jazz, but I'm taking into consideration a weight/power/tone balance. Unlike many other folks, I've never had an issue w the reverb on it, which I like. Otherwise, I'd always grab my '65 Princeton Reverb and mike it if necessary. If I had a DeLuxe Reverb I wouldn't need the mike (but I'd still keep the PR). I love a little tube 'edge' even on some jazz.

If I could only have one amp, I'd find an old DeLuxe. I love Poly but she don't play the blues.

[Hammertone]

Polytones used to be good cheap amps. I started using them in 1978 and still use them. They were always a compromise in terms of stuffing ton of clean power into a small, light, box. A brilliant concept perfect for accordionists, guitarists and bassists. A Polytone head liberated from its box and run through a well-designed speaker cab is a wonderful thing. I have used a BabyBrute (and still do!), a Minibrute IV, a 102, an elusive 104, and an even more elusive Polytone Fusion 100 watt all-tube 1x12" combo for awhile.

Standard Polytone etiquette:
- disconnect the red knob. No one in their right mind would use it.
- after the reverb tank breaks, don't fix it, just use a reverb pedal.
- after the 3-ohm speaker blows up, replace it with an 8-ohm speaker so you can turn the volume to 10 without worrying about blowing up the amp.
- after the foam cover rots away, install a nifty circular metal grill to protect the speaker.
- after the little metal tags next to all those jacks in the back fall off and you lose the owners manual, wonder what they do once in awhile but never bother finding the answer
- install a speaker bypass switch so you can run the amp into another speaker cab.
- get hired for upright bass gigs, look at the Ampeg B-15S and the Polytone 102, and inevitably take the 102.
- take the Babybrute to all gigs as a just-in-case backup amp, and actually use it once, speaker disconnected, driving the Ampeg B-15S cabinet. Holy crap that sounded good.
...and so forth.

[jorgemg1984]

Just returned from my tech, he had a Mega Brute in there and was completely shocked. The construction was terrible, lousy components, bad circuit design and a very uninspiring sound. He said not even China amps were that bad. My Henriksen was there and there is no comparison between the two, the Henriksen is much better. He also worked on my Fender M80 and Peavey Bandit 65 and said they were also much better amps in every way possible - and of course they sound much more clear and play much louder (and cost around 200€ used).

Polytones sell for unbelievable prices on Europe

The Guitar Lounge, Jazz en handgebouwde gitaren

There is one in a store here in Lisbon for 1400€. Why people pay these prices for these amps? Because you only play jazz if you have one? I understand why people buy them in the US where you can get them really cheap (and some guys like Kurt Rosenwinkel get great sounds from them but that guy could make anything sound good) but in Europe with this money you could get an excellent tube amp (or a good guitar). Oh and they are not light either (a mega brute with an 8 speaker weights 10kgs)

[Soco]

I have a megabrute, bought it new for 500 dollars about 10 years ago.
it is a nice-sounding and portable amp, but it has been in for repair twice.
The repairman strongly suggested to NOT lug around the amp on a cart.
He almost denied working on the amp since he had terrible experiences with the polytone company. They don't really stand behind their products and sometimes it takes them months to send a small part needed for the repairman. I am glad I have it back(didn't bother to fix the reverb this time), I would want to buy another one if this one breaks one more time. I'd look into Henriksen. My favorite amp is a fender princeton reverb that has been modified, this amp is a bit too big to lug around in NYC so I usually end up taking the polytone.
The polytone somewhat works ok with od pedals, but if I play fusion, blues or rock my preference would be anything with tubes.

[Hammertone]

"used to be" - operative statement.
My experience is with the 1980's Polytones, and I recommend them.
Today, 1980's Polytones are "good cheap amps", IMO - they don't fetch much on ebay and come up on a regular basis.

I see Henriksen as today's version of a 1980's Polytone, just more expensive.

[jorgemg1984]

Yes, again - Soco mentions 500US and Hammertone mentions 80s Polytone, which sound much better than new ones. I would pay 500 dollars for a 80s one, I wouldn't pay 1400€ for a new one but apparently people do. Why? Its an economic mystery how a company can sell a bad product so expensive. With 1400€ you can buy a Fender and mod it to your taste or even a botique amp - in the end a vastly superior product to Polytone. Is it all marketing?

[krusty]

I think it's more that many years ago, they were capable of 'that' jazz tone, and some famous people started to use them. Now everyone still thinks they are a necessity, along with a big hollowbody. I like my Mini-brain, but I'm seriously thinking of selling and just going with my tube setup for everything. Even my ZT Lunchbox is easier to dial in a good sound than the Polytone.

[Pierrot]

To compare an amp with just 2 controls for eq., that is bass and treble, with a sophisticated and complex amp which lets you combine channels, eqs, etc, with at least 3 bands of frequency for each channel, and more...doesn't say anything.

Despite the (aggressive?) tone of some in this thread against newer Polytones, I'm very happy with mine: currently I own a Minibrute V and a Megabrute. Both have sonic circuit and I find very easily very good and jazzy sounds with them.

Of course they are one trick ponies, don't ask them to do heavy metal neither pop-rock. But, for the jazz guitar, IMO, they are still THE reference by which others will be judged.

True, in Europe, their price is very expensive but it's relatively easy to find them used, at more reasonable price, which is what I did with mine.

Coming back to the original question (Polytone vs valves), I would say that (good) valve amps offer... warmth, organic textures, which is what you can expect from good solid state amps like Polytone, Henriksen and the like, but,...without the hassle.

[727lawrence]

I know this is an old thread, but I had to chime in. I have a MiniBrute IV with a 15 and am constantly amazed at how good it sounds. I put a Keeley compressor in front and it simply chimes like a friggin songbird. Add a Hermida Zendrive and it screams the blues. I love it.

[mattymel]

if i could find a poly for $100-200 id be all over that. but it seems like they are always going for $350-$400 used and i just cant justify that when i can go find a "non jazz" SS amp for 1/4 the price that sounds 95% as good as the poly.