Fishman Loud Box Performer

[jzucker]

Just wanted to give a quick head's up. Picked up one of thse to use for acoustic guitar. Sounds amazing but even more interesting for this group is that it sounds fabulous with my 175. It reminds me of Pat Metheny's clean tone.

Really pleasantly surprised because I had read that it wasn't very good for electric guitar. It does *NOT* have the typical SS amp problem of needing 15 feet of speaker dispersion space in order for it to sound good. It sounds great right next to the amp.

Highly recommended.

[jorgemg1984]

Hi jack! Had the opposite experience with it and my Guild X-500, didn't like the sound. But for acoustic and vocals its a great amp!

[jzucker]

that's odd. I think it's the best jazz guitar amp I've ever played through. And the tone controls work great.

[NSJ]

Originally Posted by jzucker

that's odd. I think it's the best jazz guitar amp I've ever played through. And the tone controls work great.

Hmm, how would you compare it to the Phil Jones Cub? That's another "acoustic guitar" amp, but I noticed it got a GREAT, full and lively sound on my old Gibby Howard Roberts (sold that guitar, still have the amp).

[jzucker]

haven't tried the phil jones. Incidentally, treble control is at 10k but seems to be have a wider q than the typical jazz guitar amp so you can hear the difference as you turn it through this amp but it's still not ideally placed for an electric guitar.

[jorgemg1984]

Where do you prefer the treble control placed Jack? I checked on my JMUL and its also on 10k and it doesn't have a huge range (+/- 6db) but I feel I can dial treble out of the way more than in most other amps.

[jzucker]

what's a jmul? I have the treble at 11 O'Clock with my 175 but I like it at 1 O'Clock on the acoustic. It sounds gorgeous with my taylor 514 as you would expect.

[jorgemg1984]

JMUL = Jazzmaster Ultralight. I was talking about your complaint that jazz amps always put the treble control at 10k, at what frequency do you like the treble control to be?

That amp is really something for acoustic guitars, although I usually get good results with my Fender M80 and Henriksen Tweety.

[jzucker]

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

JMUL = Jazzmaster Ultralight. I was talking about your complaint that jazz amps always put the treble control at 10k, at what frequency do you like the treble control to be?

That amp is really something for acoustic guitars, although I usually get good results with my Fender M80 and Henriksen Tweety.

Treble control should be around 4.5k to 5k. 10k is great for acoustic instruments but not electric. If you're trying to the the fender bright setting you need something in the 4k-5k range.

[Bill C]

Jack

Will you be posting a clip of the 175/Fishman combination?

thanks

Bill

[jzucker]

probably at some point but I currently have it in my living room and not in my studio.

[NSJ]

Just curious, is there a good site/webpage that explains auditory frequencies, guitar and amp settings, and the like? I'd like to get a lowdown on how different types of guitars work with different amps in terms of being able to pick up frequency responses.

When I saw Bobby Broom, he had the higher frequencies in his Henriksen head set to wide open, like it didn't really matter what they were, his carved Hofner wasn't gonna pick em up, anyway? Actually he said that he was told that the higher frequencies correlate more or less with the strings 1 and 2. Then I read your arch top isn't gonna be able to really pickup the higher frequencies of the Henriksen, anyway--not like a solid body guitar.

[JohnW400]

Originally Posted by jzucker

Just wanted to give a quick head's up. Picked up one of thse to use for acoustic guitar. Sounds amazing but even more interesting for this group is that it sounds fabulous with my 175. It reminds me of Pat Metheny's clean tone.

Really pleasantly surprised because I had read that it wasn't very good for electric guitar. It does *NOT* have the typical SS amp problem of needing 15 feet of speaker dispersion space in order for it to sound good. It sounds great right next to the amp.

Highly recommended.

OK,

You've owned Evans, Hennricksen, Polytone, AI with a Reazors Edge and who knows what else

How do you rate the Fishman against the 4 I mention but considering the main guitars going through it will be solid top, oval hole, pick guard mounted p/ups?

Now if that isn't a lot to ask, huh?

Thanks

[Vihar]

Originally Posted by NSJ

Just curious, is there a good site/webpage that explains auditory frequencies, guitar and amp settings, and the like? I'd like to get a lowdown on how different types of guitars work with different amps in terms of being able to pick up frequency responses.

When I saw Bobby Broom, he had the higher frequencies in his Henriksen head set to wide open, like it didn't really matter what they were, his carved Hofner wasn't gonna pick em up, anyway? Actually he said that he was told that the higher frequencies correlate more or less with the strings 1 and 2. Then I read your arch top isn't gonna be able to really pickup the higher frequencies of the Henriksen, anyway--not like a solid body guitar.

Those are several different - kinda big - topics, but for starters, here's my suggestion:

- Download this free program called Tone Stack calculator: TSC

It can draw you the frequency response of different tone stacks found in all kinds of amps.

- Check out this great article written by Terry Downs about the frequency response of a Tele bridge pickup (and there's a humbucker graph as well), in relation to the cable length and volume/tone pot value: PSPICE Modeling of Guitar Circuits with Effects of the Instrument Cable

- A very thorough article about how pickup width and its position on a guitar effects its response: Response Effects of Guitar Pickup Position and Width

- Get this book: Amazon.com: Mixing Audio: Concepts, Practices and Tools (9780240520681): Roey Izhaki: Books

One of the best about mixing audio.

It comes with a DVD with sound samples, so you will actually hear what is what frequency and effects wise.

[jzucker]

The problem with most of those methodologies is that they don't consider the frequency range of the guitar or the guitar speaker which effectively limits you to the 5k(ish) range.

Originally Posted by Vihar

Those are several big topics, but for starters, here's my suggestion:

- Download this free program called Tone Stack calculator: TSC

It can draw you the frequency response of different tone stacks found in all kinds of amps.

- Check out this great article written by Terry Downs about the frequency response of a Tele bridge pickup (and there's a humbucker graph as well), in relation to the cable length and volume/tone pot value: PSPICE Modeling of Guitar Circuits with Effects of the Instrument Cable

- A very thorough article about how pickup width and its position on a guitar effects its response: Response Effects of Guitar Pickup Position and Width

- Get this book: Amazon.com: Mixing Audio: Concepts, Practices and Tools (9780240520681): Roey Izhaki: Books

One of the best about mixing audio.

It comes with a DVD with sound samples, so you will actually hear what is what frequency and effects wise.

[NSJ]

THanks Vihar, will check out the links this afternoon when I have more time.

[Vihar]

You're welcome NSJ.

[Vihar]

Originally Posted by jzucker

The problem with most of those methodologies is that they don't consider the frequency range of the guitar or the guitar speaker which effectively limits you to the 5k(ish) range.

Yeah, that's why I put the one about pickup response too. You make a good point with mentioning the speakers too; unless the amp's got a tweeter or someone plugs into the PA (like Tuck Andress), the real highs won't be covered.

Some speaker manufacturers have the freq. response up on their site, Celestion is one of them. For example:



Still, if you check out the sound of your miced amp with a spectrum analyzer, it will show a very round curve, like this AC30 miced with an SM57 off axis:



It goes up to around 13kHz. So whatever is in the signal chain and in the air, it all matters to an extent.

[jzucker]

can't see the ac30 curve due to firewall issues. Is it within 3-6db of the flat part of the freq response of the speaker? If not, the other frequencies may not be heard...

[Vihar]

Well the highest point is at about 300Hz, the 5k point is about 20dB below that, and the 10k point is about 15dB below the 5k point.