Guitar processors from Sans Amp to VG-99?

**tonyknight** · 07-30-2011, 06:09 AM

Hi all,

I'm getting back to rethinking my gear setup to minimalise in general. Before getting an archtop, I'd use probably my Tele and ES-335, but lose my Fender HRD - just too big, too heavy, hard to use at low volumes, breaks up at medium volumes usually before I want it too (nice for blues but that's about it).

I've been thinking about a nice clean amp along the lines of the ZT-Club or perhaps even the Atomic Reactor series. Henricksen, nice, but a bit pricey for the moment. So, I'd need to put something between the guitar and amp to provide the versatility which I'd require.

Do you have any ideas regarding a good processor which would allow nice jazz tones, nice blues tones, ambient music, and anything else which would be bonus? The Axe-Fx looks amazing, but for the price of a great guitar and the amp combined... I've considered the Sans Amp PSA, the Boss GT-Pro (if one can still be found), the GT-10, and even the VG-99. This latter unit is interesting of course: I love the idea that I could compose and play seriously ambient synthy stuff, but I dislike the idea of putting a Hex pup on any of my guitars.

I'd appreciate any advice and thoughts which you might be able to offer. Eventually, I'd add a mellow sounding archtop...

Peace,
Tony

**jorgemg1984** · 07-30-2011, 07:30 AM

If you don't need modeling, the Nova System is a good solution. If you need, the Axe FX and Atomic Reactor are considered to be the best of all - maybe you can find a good 2nd hand deal now that they released Version II.

I don't think a ZT Club would be an improvement from a HRD, only on the weight part. The HRD are hard to use at low volumes as any tube amp is, you probably need an attenuator do get a good low volume sound. You can easily get less breakup with a better speaker and changing tubes. Less weight only with a Neo speaker. Maybe a 2nd hand Henriksen would also be a good option although they are not good amps for overdriven tones usually - maybe to do some Kurt Rosenwinkel Rat sound but not to get a blues Dumble overdrive sound.

It will be hard for you to get such a versatile rig and now wanting to spend a lot of money. The second hand Axe FX would probably be the best route.

**Tom Karol** · 07-30-2011, 08:18 AM

I have a ZT Club which I use for rock with a 'Tele' and a Carl Martin Quattro (which replaced a VOX Tonelab ST). I also have a Henriksen which I use for jazz with a '335' without the Quattro. For pop I use an A/E hybrid with the Henriksen plus tweeter and (sometimes) the Quattro. OK, that's where I'm coming from.

1) The Axe-Fx is purported to be the absolute best processor available (no personal experience), but I believe they cost over $1k! I don't have any experience with the TC Nova system either, but from what I've heard, it might be the best alternative at less than half the price of the Axe-Fx. There's also the Eleven Rack somewhere in between in price - nope, never tried that either.

2) I disagree about the HRD vs. the Club. A bandmate has an HRD, and I wouldn't trade the Club for it under any circumstances. The Club is very amenable to being front-ended by a processor - digital or analog.

3) Actually, the Henriksen likes processors too. By itself though, it's a one-trick pony ... but boy, does it nail that trick!

So off the top of my head, I'd say you should try a TC Nova/ZT Club combination ... and anything else you can find!

By the way, I once played a VG-99 (I think) in a store. Playing the guitar and having the sound of a flute come out of the amplifier is quite an interesting experience!

**tonyknight** · 07-31-2011, 07:07 AM

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I'll have no real choice but to find a store where I can hear a few of the possibilities - it's just not that easy here in the French coutryside (my local store has a Roland GR-55, the guitar synth, for example, but they have no guitar set up to try it out).

The Axd-Fx really does sound impressive, but the new model is well over 2000 euros - that's got to be close to $3000!

If I weren't so worried about the Hex pup I'd probably go with the VG-99 (yes it interesting to play a guitar and hear something totally different :-)) I guess I'm worried about two things here, one, the sound of the guitar in it's real mode, ie with proper set up and pups, after it's been adjusted for the Hex pup, and secondly, I guess I just have an old-timer's problem with anything which is 'modelling' :-)

On the amps, I'll probably add in the Cube 80XL as an alternative to listen to, but I'm guessing then that I really don't gain much over my 60W tube fender... sigh - at least there's always stuff to check out :-)

**Flyin' Brian** · 07-31-2011, 07:18 AM

I'm an old timer and I just got rid of amps, pedals and all and bought a Roland GR-55. I use the jazz guitar voices on it and the nylon and steel string acoustic sounds. If I want anything over and above, it has 100s of synth voices and effects.

**tonyknight** · 07-31-2011, 07:32 AM

Thanks Flyin' Brian. The reason I was originally interested by the VG-99 was its more analogue synth sounds versus 'realistic' instruments. I'd love to hear how you're finding the GR though. Also, through what amp, what guitar etc.

**fep** · 07-31-2011, 10:25 AM

I use a Digitech GNX3000 straight thru small powered PA speakers.

Here's a sample of one of the many sounds you can get from that box (you can get these for $150 or less used on ebay):

Eastman test.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

I also use a roland GR 33 synth

**Kuz** · 07-31-2011, 01:55 PM

I have an Axe-Fx standard and it is the best guitar/musical purchase I have made 15 years. ALL the home recording I do, are straight through the AF to the recorder.

I still love my tube amps for live situation, but the Axe-Fx is SO impressive.

I have not played the AF live, but I am sure it would be great.

You don't need the Axe-FX II (in my opinion), the original has so much I have just scratched the surface. BEST thing is, a lot of people are flipping their Axe-Standars/ultra at such a low price, it is a no brainier in my opinion!!!!

Here are a couple clips.. (I am sure you could make it sound better than me!!!)

SoundClick artist: jjkuz - page with MP3 music downloads

SoundClick artist: jjkuz - page with MP3 music downloads

**tonyknight** · 07-31-2011, 02:45 PM

Hi Frank - great to see you here! You can see that I'm still struggling with some basic but supremely important issues! As you sort of know, just a bit of extra background - for the last 3-6 yrs I've had some sort of weird neurological problem which has manifested in extremely severe headaches 24hrs per day, loss of nerve sensitivity on about 25% of the surface of arms and legs, and finger tips, and more recently an extremely rapid onset of extreme arthritis in my fingers! I'm not complaining though, and just pretending that all's well and I'm ok!!! :-) We did find a couple of brain tumours (yikes) but for the moment they are benign and apparently are not the cause. One day we might actually find out what the problem is :-)

Anyway, to contend with this and make the most of my situation, I had two goals. The first is just that holy grail of tone - jazz for sure, and blues, well, for sure too. The second is to start composing and recording again, but music which would be far more ambient, new-agey, spacey and jazzy at the same time - Gilmore meets Burrell on opium! Hence my interest in the VG-99. I found loads of older synths available on ebay and finally decided that I'd consider any which looked good - except for my fear of having to add a GK-3 hex pup to my guitar, probably the ES-335. Very unsure about this, but am still very intrigued by the ambient possibilities if my guitar still remains as playable as it is now by the time the action has been adjusted for the pup! Most of what I do is indeed in front of my computer, but as I make myself stronger, I'd like to get back out in front of people. I love my Hot Rod Deville for blues but haven't yet found the right jazz tone. So I though about adding a Peerless or equivalent. After that, any good processor (VG, Axd-Fx, etc) would obviously not need the tubes or the weight of my amp. So that's sort of where I'm coming from when thinking of different amps. Mystudio setup plays through Klipsch speakers driven by an Alsesis studio power amp, so that's about as clean and neutral as anyone could hope for.

Kuz, the sound bites which I've already heard make me believe that the Axe-fx is amazing - even it's synthy sounds although I understand that they are not really possible polyphonically. The best price I've found are around the 1500-1600 euro mark, so still a bit high - the few VG-99s that I've found on ebay are running around 600-650 and obviously do sort of the same things differently, each with their pros and cons. Nice to have both like a bunch of guys on the Vguitar forum :-)

I'll be listening to both of your audio tracks tomorrow - head's a bit iffy right now :-)

Perhaps it might be worth starting a different thread on using modelling and synths in a jazz context, because the whole world has changed with software sims which are incredible and hardware boxes which are perhaps equally as good...

Cheers and thanks for the help,
Tony

**tonyknight** · 08-02-2011, 03:52 AM

Hey Frank - sorry if this comes through twice but I just lost my computer and connection due to a surprise thunder storm. That tone is just wonderful, very much the sound I'm looking for - plus your technique as well

Which Eastman model was this? Also, did you get the chance to compare the Eastman with the Peerless guitars? I know there's a raging debate amongst those who love one or the other - and rarely both!

**tonyknight** · 08-02-2011, 04:03 AM

Hi Kuz, same for your two tracks, they're both imho excellent. Love the tone, the mood, the phrasing, and the production. What guitar were you using with the Axe-Fx and what did you use for backing tracks?

By the way, I may have 40 yrs of playing guitar (that hurts when I think of it like that), but that can be broken down as teaching myself the basics (long before books, videos, or even teachers where I lived) for three years. Playing club variety for three years. Barely touching the guitars for 20 yrs when my career and income needs were too 'important' (that takes on a very different perspective as life throws a few things at you), and then 8 yrs of learning blues technique and relearning everything I used to know about theory. Then, as illness kicked in, began to lose the technique and finally a year or so ago, I decided that I needed to learn to play jazz, which I'd always put off until a day when I had more time, and realised just how much I didn't know! Thanks to great people on this forum like Frank (Fep) and others who know who they are for that - it's been a real privilege. Now that my fingers work for squat, I'm starting again (feel like Django) and it will be jazz which which will allow me to best express my style with my digital limitations (in all senses of the word). So all in all, while I have the capacity to play like you, it'll be a little while before I post anything as polished as that :-) Thanks very much for the music!

So to summarise, I guess what I really need to do, is
1) add am archtop
2) learn to get the best possible tone out of my tube amp or get a new amp
3) add a guitar processor
4) add a guitar synthesis module
5) learn how to avoid my partner when she sees the damage to the current account :-)

Thanks guys,
tony

**fep** · 08-03-2011, 08:47 AM

Hi Tony,

I'm sorry to hear of your additional medical complications piling up. For me it was a frustrating process when the various Docs where trying to figure out what was wrong with me... it took about 9 months. Things go slow when you're an outpatient being bounced from specialist to specialist. So when I was finally diagnosed, even though it wasn't good, it was still a relief to know what it actually was. I hope they can figure out what is causing all your symptoms.

Guess what, I was released from the hospital on Saturday and I'm finally home!

I like what your doing, composing is so rewarding and creative. It's good for your spirit.

I'm pretty hooked up for composing and recording myself. I recently started working with Reaper (I also have Sonar 8 producer). Reaper is great and only $40 for multiple computers (for home use, $250 for those who use it commercially). Check it out, they have a 30 day free trial.

If your up for it, I think it would be fun to collaborate on some compositions and/or recordings.

Re: synth guitar... My synth is a Roland GR-33 that I bought used for $250, my synth guitars are a Godin Mulitac ACS SA Nylon ($400 used) and a Godin LGX-Sa ($800 used). These guitars track really well, I didn't have to change my picking technique at all to get them to work.

That LGX-sa comes with a seymour duncan jazz neck pu, a seymour duncan custom custom at the bridge, and piezos on the bridge. You can definately go from a jazz to blues to acoustic sounds plus synth on this guitar. And you won't have to mess with putting a hex pu on your 335.

Godin Guitars

Sending positive vibes for your health to improve.

**Flyin' Brian** · 08-09-2011, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by tonyknight

Thanks Flyin' Brian. The reason I was originally interested by the VG-99 was its more analogue synth sounds versus 'realistic' instruments. I'd love to hear how you're finding the GR though. Also, through what amp, what guitar etc.

I bought a Yamaha MSR 400 to play it through. it has more power than I'll ever need and it's pretty portable. The GR is great and I currently am using a Heritage Prospect with it. I also bought a Line 6 HD500 unit, so I sort of have a good representation of several guitars and amps. Purists say that modeling doesn't quite cop the vibe of the real thing, but I think it's just cork sniffing.

**jorgemg1984** · 08-10-2011, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian

Purists say that modeling doesn't quite cop the vibe of the real thing, but I think it's just cork sniffing.

Well I never tried a Line 6 modeler that sounded good to me, just decent. Nothing against modelation but never heard one that I liked (although I never heard the Axe FX which seems to be phenomenal for what I read)

**tonyknight** · 08-10-2011, 06:01 AM

Welcome back to home life, Frank! That's brilliant news. At least I've been home except for a month or two in hospital wards. One day we'll figure out the problems but I'm sure that they pale into insignificance compared to what you've been through. It's that sort of understanding which gets me through each day, knowing that I have problems, but others have huge problems. And I won't even talk about the 5 or 6 billion people who don't even make our radar :-(

Thanks guys for all this info. As soon as I complete my long overdue dissertation I'll be moving to the action part of the plan! There's much to consider and of course there're far too many options, so I guess I'll start simply, and then add each additional component as and when I can. I'm trying to get up the courage to sell off some of my excellent stuff which I rarely if ever use any more. To make space and to ease the budgetary challenge :-) We get too attached to things I think!

Then I'd love to talk about the results, the composition, and collaboration! and perhaps reopen that lovely debate about modelling :-) I still remember thinking that CDs simply didn't compare with vinyl, or that trannies didn't compare with tubes...

Cheers,
Tony

**wygant78** · 08-10-2011, 06:10 AM

If you need, the Axe FX and Atomic Reactor are considered to be the best of all - maybe you can find a good 2nd hand deal now that they released Version II.

**tonyknight** · 08-10-2011, 06:26 AM

yes, the earlier Axe-fx seem to see on ebay in europe for around 1500 - 1600 euros. not exactly cheap but not bad when compared with the new price of 2200 euros I think.

**Elias Graves** · 08-10-2011, 11:00 AM

I have a friend who plays a Tech 21 Blonde pedal either into a keyboard amp or direct to PA. That thing will sound like just about any Fender amp you can name at any volume and do so quite convincingly. I'm seriously considering one myself. His whole rig is on a pedalboard.

EG