Problem with compressor

[Bencuri]

I am using clean guitar sound when I play guitar, I only use a delay pedal and an equalizer to create the desired sound. I am satisfied with this gear, however I thought some compression would be okay to even out the volume level differences. So I purchased a compressor pedal, a Marshall ED-1. I have some problem with it. I like the sound of the amp with the delay and the EQ added, so the compressor should do nothing but to even the volume differences out. The problem is that it also adds an emphasis to the beginning of the notes, it is a pop like sound. This is a desireable effect when you play funky, but not for me. The pop itself would not be a problem, but it destroyes the overall good tone when the delay repeats that sound. Without that the echo is smooth, but with the compressor on it is like hearing pops all the time. I wonder how to overcome this problem? I tried to put the compressor after the delay pedal, that helped a bit, then I also tried turning off the volume knob on the guitar a little less than the maximum. This way I was near to an acceptable sound, but this resulted in the channel becoming noisy. I think that pop is the result of that the pedal intensifies not only the string sound, but also that effect that comes from the pick hitting the string at the beginning of the note. I wonder what could be done to eliminate that pop?

[Klatu]

In my experience, most of the compressors designed specifically for guitars are prone to your types of issues. They tend to cater to an effects crowd that demands significant alteration of sound which results in a pronounced "squish". The classic Ross and Dynacomps are both prime examples of the compressor as effect.

Most compressors that don't alter the sound in the way you describe are large rack units designed for studio use; however, there is one that looks promising: the Joemeek FloorQ. I don't have personal experience with it, but it seems to be a studio style optical compressor in pedal form.

Good luck.

[Flyin' Brian]

Get yourself a Barber Tone Press or a Carl Martin Comp/Limiter. They both have a parallel circuit with a blend control so you can dial out the "squish" that happens on attack with most compressors but still retain the evenness of attack and sustain. The Barber is easier to dial in and the Martin is more tweakable.

[mambosun]

Did you try differents setting with your comp pedal?
The "spongy sound" you described might be related to the amount of "attack".

[Pierrot]

Originally Posted by mambosun

Did you try differents setting with your comp pedal?
The "spongy sound" you described might be related to the amount of "attack".

Exactly. On the other side, maybe Marshall pedals aren't the best choice for transparent compression.

[Subfeeder]

The pop you describe is related to the attack speed of the compressor. Basically the attack control determines the amount of time delay before the compressor kicks in and starts compressing the signal. The longer the delay, the more pop you will hear on the first part of the note. It's often desirable to have this attack for instruments such as bass and drums so that the initial attack sound is heard but the body of the note/tone is compressed. I see the Marshall ED-1 does have an attack control but it may be that it just doesn't have the range that is desirable to you and your setup. You may have to experiment with other compressors. The Boss CS3 is pretty standard and has an attack control that , in my experience, can knock off the initial attack of a guitar note.
Head over to Compressor Reviews for more info on compression and a load of reviews. The ultimate compression site. Most people find they need to try a number of compressors before they get one that suits them. I have bought and sold (and re-bought) quite a few and ended up with an EBS multicomp for bass and Boss CS3 (modded) for guitar.

[mambosun]

Originally Posted by Subfeeder

The pop you describe is related to the attack speed of the compressor. Basically the attack control determines the amount of time delay before the compressor kicks in and starts compressing the signal. The longer the delay, the more pop you will hear on the first part of the note. It's often desirable to have this attack for instruments such as bass and drums so that the initial attack sound is heard but the body of the note/tone is compressed. I see the Marshall ED-1 does have an attack control but it may be that it just doesn't have the range that is desirable to you and your setup. You may have to experiment with other compressors. The Boss CS3 is pretty standard and has an attack control that , in my experience, can knock off the initial attack of a guitar note.
Head over to Compressor Reviews for more info on compression and a load of reviews. The ultimate compression site. Most people find they need to try a number of compressors before they get one that suits them. I have bought and sold (and re-bought) quite a few and ended up with an EBS multicomp for bass and Boss CS3 (modded) for guitar.

Thanks for this very good link ! I have been using a Boss CS2 for a number of years, mostly to obtain more sustained distortion (Fripp like infinite sustain) and sold it recently.
For clean tone, it worked best with single coil PU, adding some warmth and body, than with humbucker.

[Bencuri]

Thank you for your replies!

I have tried several modifications on the settings of the Marshall ED-1, but unfortunately it doesn't give the desired sound. It is interesting however that just before I purchased the Marshall, I also purchased a cheap Chineese made Compressor pedal from eBay (it is branded: CM-60), thinking that will also do. It arrived later than my Marshall ED-1, and interestingly that gives a better sound for me than the Marshall. It gives a pleasant even sound. It has only Level, Comp and Sustain knobs, so it doesn't even have an Attack knob, yet no matter how high you set the compression level, that rattling in the sound never appears. That pedal doesn't give as powerful compression as the ED-1, however it generates a much more mellow sound. It is really suprising from such a cheap pedal. I regret now to have purchased the ED-1.

Let me have another question of compressors. Is it normal if the compressor distorts the sound at high pitches when strumming strongly and the guitar volume knob is set to max? Both the ED-1 and the CM-60 do this. The ED-1 tends to do it when the Volume knob is set low on it, the CM-60 does it when the Comp is set low or the Sustain knob high. If I want to avoid the distortion I need to turn off the volume knob on the guitar a bit. Do you think it is normal, or maybe it happens because these are low end pedals? I also have a Zoom G1 multieffect processor here at home with preset compressor effects built in, interestingly that does not distorts any pitch, even if I set the master volume of the processor high and in addition an EQ is also included in the channel that boosts the volume (and of course the guitar volume knob is at max), too. At the same amount of volume boost both of the pedals distorts quite much, interestingly the G1 with the preset distortion doesn't. Any ideas why this happens? Maybe the G1 has some gate function that prevents such distortions?

[fep]

I haven't used the compressors you have, but a compressor shouldn't create distortion. It is possible that it will boost the signal enough so that it overdrives the amp in which case the amp will create the distortion.

As an aside, tube amplifiers when they are overdriven slightly and on up create compression. One element of that overdrive sound that many like is from tube compression. So, when trying to simulate tube overdrive with solid state gear a compressor is something you'll want to experiment with.

Imo, I like a quicker acoustic jazz guitar type of decay (i.e. less compression) for jazz. With the altered and extended chords common to jazz it sounds cleaner this way, a lot of compression/sustain can muddy up the sound.

[Subfeeder]

Originally Posted by Bencuri

Is it normal if the compressor distorts the sound at high pitches when strumming strongly and the guitar volume knob is set to max?

Sounds like too much level going into the compressor, but I'm not sure of what you are describing. Most compressors have some noise/distortion when the compression level is set high (the sustain knob). Hit a chord and during the decay you will get some distortion as the compressor brings up the level. The presence/absence of this distortion is usually dependent on the quality/price of the compressor. Good quality compressors have less of this distortion/noise and this is a quality to look for in a good compressor.
But I'm not sure if this is what you are describing.

To reiterate what others have said - compression is not often used by jazz guitarists because it reduces dynamics. Bear that in mind, but don't let it stop you. I use a compressor sometimes because it makes my picking sound more even, but it's a bit of a cheat. I should practice more so that I can play even. The drawback of using the compressor is that I can't get dynamics (loud notes and soft notes) and it's more difficult to use the volume knob on the guitar to go from a cleaner sound to an overdriven sound (if I'm using overdrive)

[Vihar]

The ED-1 is "famous" for distorting higher level signals. I have one too, it worked fine with my regular Tele single coil, but it distorted the PAF style Super 58s and my EMG HA as well.

About the attack thing, if the attack time is long enough, the "pop" won't even be audible anymore, it will rather sound like you naturally flow into a sustaining sound. The Visual Sound Comp 66 does that for example. It depends on the unit. The Marshall ED-1 can go from a "click" (shortest attack) to a big "thud" (longest attack time), and anything between, but it will always be audible. My Maxon CP-9 Pro+ has got a sweet and round "pop".

As for the dynamics thing: I look at the compressor as a camera: it captures 3D things and renders them in 2D, or flattens things out in other words. But as you can still see the contrast perfectly in a picture taken by a good camera, you can still hear a sense of playing dynamics when you play through a good compressor, but without the softer passages disappearing, just like a good pop recording. It really brings out hidden sounds that were always there hiding (even if it's just string noise and pick attack for some people).

[whosgarethparry]

to be honest, the marshall compressor is a pretty bad one. it's never gonna work great. in my own experience you you have to spend a bit to get one that doesnt ruin the tone.
the keeley compressor is great, works without wreckin the tone, and very subtle. the wampler ego compressor is also really nice. and has a blend control, like the barber.

for me, you really notice the difference with cheap pedals when it comes to compressors

[mambosun]

Originally Posted by Bencuri

Let me have another question of compressors. Is it normal if the compressor distorts the sound at high pitches when strumming strongly and the guitar volume knob is set to max?

I can only reply from my past experience with the Boss CS2: if you crank up the Level and Vol settings at the maximum, the answer is yes,.
I have the same result while using compressor effect in cubase or audition, beyond a certain level, the signal goes clipping.

[Bencuri]

I took my compressors to my friend who has a top quality amp, and the Marshall distorted some pitches on that too, so I guess it is not my gear that is faulty. Moreover interestingly the amp of my friend already put a similar rattle into the sound without any compressor, that is odd, because I went there to experiment how to eliminate that rattle from the sound that the compressor adds. It was a strange experience, and I am a bit embarassed now, because I have a home made amp here, and that doesn't add that rattle, but my friends stage amp does. So the whole experiment was useless there. Anyway I decided to stay with my CM-60 compressor, it really gives a pleasant tone. Unfortunately it also distorts like the ED-1, but not that seriously, only when I set much sustain. But at least the basic design on the panel is okay, later I can take it to a technician to copy the panel without the distortion or add something to eliminate it. The Boss Cs-3 would also be an option, but only in case I can try it, because by now I don't trust these pedals. I didn't know there can be so big differences between the compressors, so it necessary for me to try these before I buy one now.

Anyway you can be right that for some music the compressor is not needed, but I need it, because I play different music than jazz, but I also need the jazzy sound. For example to play african rumba jazz, it can help a lot, but definately for a Joe Pass or George Bensone kind of stuff there is not much use.

[Vihar]

Oh yes, there are many different compressor circuits used in pedals. You can even try to build yourself one from a kit, if you feel comfortable with the soldering iron. Just this one company offers four different compressor kits:

classiccomp

5knobcompressor

opticomp

armstrongtwin

[krusty]

I have seen old reel to reel tape units used as a compressor. The idea is to utilize the compression from tape saturation. It does not alter the sound like a traditional compressor. I am using a Rupert Neve Portico 5042 tape emulator, that I happen to have for recording. Hitting the unit fairly hard results in a very nice live sound too, but is a rather impractical unit to use, as it requires a preamp in front as well, and that can get expensive.