12" speaker recommendations

[skiboyny]

Hello to all,

New to the forum been lurking for a while and would like to ask a question. I have a Princeton clone that I'm looking at a replacement speaker for. I play Archtop guitars exclusively. Have a Palen, Eastman and a couple of Peerless.

The amp currently has a Weber 12A150 Alnico that is fairly inefficient and breaks up much to early. At low volume it sounds ok but nothing I'm thrilled with. So I'm looking for something very efficient with a very late break up point. Thought I'd toss it by some of you guys. Considering the Eminence Cannabis Rex, Tone tubby 40/40, Weber 12F150. Looking for ideas. Nice to be aboard thanking you in advance.

Bob

[spiral]

If you like clean, i've been happy with the Jensen Neo. It has a clear midrange like the the other Jensens but a little more hifi. It is rated for 100 watts and while i don't have anything near that big to test it, it is supposed to be very efficient. Some people love or hate them (check out the Gear Page) but i think it sounds like the Jensen i replaced, but just a little more fidelity (in a good way). The other speakers you mentioned are voiced in very specific ways so even if you are getting more efficiency, you will be changing the voice so make sure you try to find comparison examples.

[mattymel]

hmmm. from my experience putting a 50 watt speaker in a PR should only be done if you want to crank the amp. it will sound great if you want to put the volume at about 5 or 6, but before that its going to be very dark. PR is already arguably the darkest Fender circuit there is already.

the 12F150 will hold together in the bass a little more than the alnico, but it will be darker still at lower volumes. a PR is ALWAYS going to break up past about 5 no matter what speaker you put in it. thats happening in the power tubes, not the speakers. nothing you can do about that besides maybe having somebody make it work with 6L6s. its only 15 watts afterall.

for me that is perfect, but i like a touch of breakup even when i am playing jazz. my favorite speaker so far was the 12A150, but i use it for rocking out as well. but i also tried the F150 and the A125. the A125 was brighter at lower volumes, arguably better for playing jazz gigs, but above 3 or 4 and there wasnt as much definition in the bass.

it just sounds to me like you might be looking for a different amp, than a different speaker. maybe a deluxe reverb is more your thing?

[skiboyny]

Originally Posted by mattymel

hmmm. from my experience putting a 50 watt speaker in a PR should only be done if you want to crank the amp. it will sound great if you want to put the volume at about 5 or 6, but before that its going to be very dark. PR is already arguably the darkest Fender circuit there is already.

the 12F150 will hold together in the bass a little more than the alnico, but it will be darker still at lower volumes. a PR is ALWAYS going to break up past about 5 no matter what speaker you put in it. thats happening in the power tubes, not the speakers. nothing you can do about that besides maybe having somebody make it work with 6L6s. its only 15 watts afterall.

for me that is perfect, but i like a touch of breakup even when i am playing jazz. my favorite speaker so far was the 12A150, but i use it for rocking out as well. but i also tried the F150 and the A125. the A125 was brighter at lower volumes, arguably better for playing jazz gigs, but above 3 or 4 and there wasnt as much definition in the bass.

it just sounds to me like you might be looking for a different amp, than a different speaker. maybe a deluxe reverb is more your thing?

Thanks for the reply. My amp is rated at 18 watts but the bass starts farting out at about 2.5. Id be happy with clean up to 5 and with the right speaker I think that would be possible. Weber doesn't show any efficiency ratings on there speakers but I was told that the 12A150 is not very with a quick break up. (maybe you can confirm or counter) I might not have come across quite right. The amp sounds really good as it sits, but I think (or maybe it's more of a hope) that there is a speaker that would get me to five and sound even better. Princeton is perfect in size and sound. The dark circuits is what grabs me. I'll convert to 6l6 if need be. Speaker is the first step.

[skiboyny]

Originally Posted by spiral

If you like clean, i've been happy with the Jensen Neo. It has a clear midrange like the the other Jensens but a little more hifi. It is rated for 100 watts and while i don't have anything near that big to test it, it is supposed to be very efficient. Some people love or hate them (check out the Gear Page) but i think it sounds like the Jensen i replaced, but just a little more fidelity (in a good way). The other speakers you mentioned are voiced in very specific ways so even if you are getting more efficiency, you will be changing the voice so make sure you try to find comparison examples.

Thanks for the reply. I have heard some good things about Neo. Do you by chance have any sound clips or might you be able to point me to some clean ones?

[kawa]

YouTube - Kanaal van soopajeanmi

YouTube - Kanaal van soopajeanmi

[spiral]

Originally Posted by skiboyny

Thanks for the reply. I have heard some good things about Neo. Do you by chance have any sound clips or might you be able to point me to some clean ones?

I do actually. When i was trying to compare the speakers i had with my Princeton and Deluxe Reverb. The differences are pretty subtle.

1. Princeton Reverb Reissue - C10R
2. Princeton Reverb Reissue - P12N
3. Deluxe Reverb (blackfaced) - P12N
4. Deluxe Reverb (blackfaced) - Neo12

Keep in mind the Princeton is voiced warmer / darker than the DR. MattyMel's suggestion of a Deluxe Reverb is probably a good one since the PRRI does break up early.

Princeton Reverb, Deluxe Reverb Speaker test: P12N, C10R, Neo12 by spiesTeleviv on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

[DArmstrong]

Maybe an Eminence Red, White and Blues? Very efficient, very smooth and clean. Just a tiny bit light on the bass, but with archtops maybe you don't want too much boom? Highs are there but not strident. Not expensive.

[mattymel]

what kind of clone do you have? im curious because i was wrong, my Lil King is 12 watts. but mine doesnt start to break up (no matter what speaker i have in it) until about 4. which is a little more headroom than a real deal BF, a good deal more than a SF, but shouldnt be more than a 18 watt amp.

its important to understand the different types of distortion. you got your power tubes being overdriven...and then you got your speaker break up. unless you are using a speaker that is rated AT or (more likely) below the wattage of the amplifier, the speaker more than likely isnt breaking up that much until much after a 18 watt amps power tubes are already fairly distorted. if you need to hear an example of what im talking about, put your 12A150 (or if you dont want to blow it...2 of them) into a twin and see what it sounds like. clean clean clean...that is until you crank the twin up to about 4...then we're probably talking speaker breakup because this is a 100 watt amp...4 6l6s.

im thinking the answer to your question may lie in the guts more than the speaker. i would talk to a amp tech before i spent a bunch more money trying 4 different 12" speakers. unless you are into that type of thing. its fun i guess.

the PR is to me the best of all BF era amps. perfect for my idea of jazz tone with awesome reverb and the warmest tremelo. but it can be tricky if SS style clean is your bag. i like to hear just a little grit in the mix. part of the big appeal of classic Fender style amps is basically the sound of a inefficient tranny. thats why a 22 watt DR is nowhere near as loud as a 18 watt marshall. anyway...i like it all! best of luck in the search. best way to learn about all the facets involved in guitar amps is by trying to get one to do something its not necessarily meant to do! haha

[kawa]

from ' Good Sounds ' #964

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,081


Rivera Amps Jazz
YouTube - ‪Rivera Amps Jazz Suprema - Archtop Guitar Amplifier Demo Video‬‏

* 50 watts of EL34 power * Highest input level fore maximum headroom * Celestion T75 for a round clean tone * Split grill Venus™ style * Pull "fat" focus for warmer tones * Pull "notch" on middle to go between blackface and Bassman® tones. * Pull "bright" on treble. * The most headroom possible on a 50 watt tube amp. * More musical and full then a solid state amp.

celestion t75 - Google ŒŸ�õ

Tone; Celestion | Guitar Loudspeakers

Celestion | Guitar Loudspeakers

Vintage Amps Bulletin Board • View topic - Celestion G12T-75 (T3760) any good?

http://professional.celestion.com/gu...fs/G12T-75.pdf

YouTube - rivera amps jazz

[kawa]

Jensen Tone Chart

[jzucker]

webers are awful IMO.

I do not like the neo speakers, generally.

I like the Eminence Tonker .

I have them in a couple amps. I just purchased the neo version of the tonker. I'll report back in a few days what my thoughts are on it.

[kawa]

Eminence - The Art and Science of Sound

[skiboyny]

Originally Posted by mattymel

what kind of clone do you have? im curious because i was wrong, my Lil King is 12 watts. but mine doesnt start to break up (no matter what speaker i have in it) until about 4. which is a little more headroom than a real deal BF, a good deal more than a SF, but shouldnt be more than a 18 watt amp.

its important to understand the different types of distortion. you got your power tubes being overdriven...and then you got your speaker break up. unless you are using a speaker that is rated AT or (more likely) below the wattage of the amplifier, the speaker more than likely isnt breaking up that much until much after a 18 watt amps power tubes are already fairly distorted. if you need to hear an example of what im talking about, put your 12A150 (or if you dont want to blow it...2 of them) into a twin and see what it sounds like. clean clean clean...that is until you crank the twin up to about 4...then we're probably talking speaker breakup because this is a 100 watt amp...4 6l6s.

im thinking the answer to your question may lie in the guts more than the speaker. i would talk to a amp tech before i spent a bunch more money trying 4 different 12" speakers. unless you are into that type of thing. its fun i guess.

the PR is to me the best of all BF era amps. perfect for my idea of jazz tone with awesome reverb and the warmest tremelo. but it can be tricky if SS style clean is your bag. i like to hear just a little grit in the mix. part of the big appeal of classic Fender style amps is basically the sound of a inefficient tranny. thats why a 22 watt DR is nowhere near as loud as a 18 watt marshall. anyway...i like it all! best of luck in the search. best way to learn about all the facets involved in guitar amps is by trying to get one to do something its not necessarily meant to do! haha

Again I'm not doing the greatest job expressing myself. I'm a Princeton fan. I think the tubes do a nicer job of letting you express yourself with the natural compression and some tube distortion. The key is getting the amp at a point were you can do that at a volume level that you want. This is where the Princeton shines IMO.I have talked to the maker and the first thing he said was that that speaker wasn't selected to stay clean for very long. Most peeps using the Princeton these days are looking for some pretty heavy breakup. The more efficient the speaker the more volume at the same setting. From what I've been told the breakup from a Princeton isn't so much the power transformer or the output tubes for that matter but an inefficient phase inverter.There are some mods for that It's possible Headstrong has them in their build. I'll get to the bottom of all this and keep you guys posted. I enjoyed your clips, and I would call everything I heard in the jazz clips clean. Thanks for your input!

[skiboyny]

Originally Posted by kawa

from ' Good Sounds ' #964

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,081


Rivera Amps Jazz
YouTube - ‪Rivera Amps Jazz Suprema - Archtop Guitar Amplifier Demo Video‬‏

* 50 watts of EL34 power * Highest input level fore maximum headroom * Celestion T75 for a round clean tone * Split grill Venus™ style * Pull "fat" focus for warmer tones * Pull "notch" on middle to go between blackface and Bassman® tones. * Pull "bright" on treble. * The most headroom possible on a 50 watt tube amp. * More musical and full then a solid state amp.

celestion t75 - Google ŒŸ�õ

Tone; Celestion | Guitar Loudspeakers

Celestion | Guitar Loudspeakers

Vintage Amps Bulletin Board • View topic - Celestion G12T-75 (T3760) any good?

http://professional.celestion.com/gu...fs/G12T-75.pdf

YouTube - rivera amps jazz

Thanks for all the info. Gonna take me a bit to weed through it.

[skiboyny]

Originally Posted by kawa

YouTube - Kanaal van soopajeanmi

YouTube - Kanaal van soopajeanmi

Nice sound. Copperhead is a 10" right? Did you change it or was the amp loaded with it when you bought it?

[kawa]

Originally Posted by skiboyny

Nice sound. Copperhead is a 10" right? Did you change it or was the amp loaded with it when you bought it?

Yes nice sound 10", sorry.

Replaced by soopajeanmi.

[kawa]

Jensen C12K

YouTube - Diana Krall - All or Nothing at All

YouTube - Jazz Blues with Fender Deluxe Reverb

YouTube - Speaker shootout: Jensen C12K vs Eminence 1228k

[kris]

Originally Posted by jzucker

webers are awful IMO.

I do not like the neo speakers, generally.

I like the Eminence Tonker .

I have them in a couple amps. I just purchased the neo version of the tonker. I'll report back in a few days what my thoughts are on it.

what about neodymium Eminence Tonkerlite?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Smoky smooth, Cannabis Rex