Synth Setup that doesn't sound lame?

[CactusTone]

So I'm thinking of getting a synth to run my RMC pickups into (from a Godin Grand Concert, nylon). I know the pickup is good, and tracks quickly and accurately, but what I'm concerned with is the other end of the equation: the synth unit itself. Roland has their new GR-55 out, which claims to solve latency issues found in the older units, but in all the demos I've listened to the tones are downright awful. Plus I don't want guitar modeling. I just want killer synth sounds like a Korg Triton can make.

Since the Roland appears to be marketed towards the ambience-meets-prog metal demographic, does anyone know of a synth that contains patches with killer piano, organ, string, vocal chorus, and orchestral tones? I've monkeyed around on high end keyboards that sound amazing, but can't find the same lush and accurate tones in a guitar synth. I've heard keyboards that do better acoustic nylon string sounds than real nylon string guitars plugged in (which, coming from an acoustic comparison always sound awful no matter what setup you're using).

For example, I'd rather run my nylon string through a good "nylon string" synth patch than use the piezo that's built into the guitar!

Does anyone know of an alternative to the Roland? And please don't say the Axon, it's just as bad from the samples I've heard. I'm looking for something that can go toe to toe tonally with a high end keyboard synth.

I've heard that once you get the GR-55 you can then plug into any module you want for tones, but is it really necessary to spend $600 on a unit just to bypass it's sounds and get the signal to a different sound module? There has to be a less wasteful way to achieve this.

Cheers!

[hans halmackenreuter]

well I'm thinking of getting a synth about a half year and I was first thinking of getting an interface like the roland gi 20 (not gr 20). But i think if you are going to get a good synth, you should try a lot of equipment.

so what i'm going to check out next is the "axon ax 100". in case you haven't heard of this device, i suggest you to inform yourself about this synth. AXON AX 100 :: AXON ::

[spiral]

Originally Posted by CactusTone

I just want killer synth sounds like a Korg Triton can make. [...] I'd rather run my nylon string through a good "nylon string" synth patch than use the piezo that's built into the guitar!

I did what you were talking about, ie. use the Roland GI20 pitch converter and then use the midi into other synths. In my case i used analog synths, but the idea is the same.

It is confusing because you say you want to use the power of synthesis like on the Triton, but then you say you want to emulate instruments like a nylon string guitar. Synths are typically aimed at one (subtractive synthesis) or the other (ROMplers), until you get into workstations.

Any of those ROMplers are going to sound plastic. If you are looking for realistic sounds, a computer / laptop is your best bet with realistic multi-samples, running into Logic, Cubase et al.

Kurzweil has some decent PCM "real" instruments, but they still sound like fake instruments to me. The upper-end Roland workstations / V-Synth are a little better, but those things are huge, and at that point, you might as well just use a laptop.

Originally Posted by CactusTone

is it really necessary to spend $600 on a unit just to bypass it's sounds and get the signal to a different sound module? There has to be a less wasteful way to achieve this.

Considering the GI20 and Axon AX50 are/were $500, and $1000 respectively: not really.

[CactusTone]

Spiral,

Thanks! So is a Triton a "workstation?" I guess there's still some terminology that eludes me. The nylon string patches I've heard some keyboards produce sound 1000 times better than a real nylon string through a piezo. Even though it's still a compromise tonally, the keyboard's tone wins in my book.

Does the GI20 have latency issues? I've looked into the Axon 50 and 100 MKII, and it appears that they, too, are incapable of producing Triton-like sounds. Again, pretty lame selection of tones.

Can you tell me more about a "workstation?" If my main goal is to use this live, would a laptop be the only solution? Are there any rack mountable units that you can think of that would fit the bill?

Thanks for your help!!

[jzucker]

the gi20 is similar to the axon. Probably worse performance though. It does have latency problems.

[CactusTone]

jzucker,

So would you recommend the Axon 50 for least latency, and then midi the signal to a more powerful sound generator?

[jzucker]

i'm skeptical about the axon. They went out of business a while back and started up again using the same basic (old) technology. The best performance is going to be avoiding midi because it's in the conversion to midi that the latency is introduced. The old roland guitar that metheny uses has way better performance than any of the midi guitars. I would look into that or the VG8 technology. But it partially depends on what you're trying to do with it.

Paul Bollenback used a GR33 and got great performance out of it. But , he's an extremely precise picker.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by CactusTone

Thanks! So is a Triton a "workstation?" I guess there's still some terminology that eludes me. [...] Does the GI20 have latency issues? I've looked into the Axon 50 and 100 MKII [...] Can you tell me more about a "workstation?" If my main goal is to use this live, would a laptop be the only solution? Are there any rack mountable units that you can think of that would fit the bill?

A workstation just means it can do lots of stuff, typically: synthesis, sample playback, and sequencing of multiple parts. Seems like overkill for what you need (and big $$). I'm not an expert on PCM / ROMpler keyboards so i can't really recommend any specific ones. Check out the Korg Radias and Roland Fantom ... they both have rack versions. Also check out the Roland Sonic Cell. It is basically a sound module which has all the instruments you are looking for and it sounds pretty good. That might be good for you if you need it live. Check out the demos.

I don't remember there being latency issues but tracking is a big deal. Axon is supposed to be slightly better than the Roland for tracking notes, but i've only tried the Roland which is fine if you play cleanly.

[edit] Scratch that SonicCell reco. I don't think they are made anymore and have been replaced by SD-50--which is cheaper. A bunch of demos and review in this thread.

[CactusTone]

Spiral,

Thanks! I'll be checking those samples out!