What makes a successful music store/shop?

[jazzbow]

Hi guys.
I know this has nothing to do with gizmos etc, but I chose this section of the forum for this thread as it always gets the most hits, so here goes.
I already do guitar lessons and repairs from home and I have the opportunity to start up a music shop in the village where I live and I need some feedback.

In order of preference, list the following 5 aspects of what you would like to see in your local music shop/store and one other thing you feel is important to you.

1. Friendly and knowledgeable staff.
2. Good variety of products and merchandise(instruments, accessoris etc).
3. Educational material(music books, DVD's etc).
4. Customer service(stock ordering, repairs and set ups, etc).
5. Music lessons.

My extra point would be hosting music sessions in store.

Yeah, any feedback would great and many thanks in advance.

[JazzyJim]

My preference (from most to least) would be....

2
1
4
3
5

I think everyone would like to deal with nice, knowledgable people, but if I am being honest, I have and will continue to deal with people I think are incredibly rude if they happen to stock something I want/need and nobody else has it. I don't really have to spend too much time interacting with them for it to be a real issue with me, although I know it's a very sore point with some people.

Obviously space doesn't come cheap, but I have to say I do prefer a room to go into and privately try out stuff - particularly amps. I really don't like trying things on a shop floor and I never think it's a particularly suitable environment to do so anyway, but that's just my two pence.

Good luck with the shop!

[gingerjazz]

This is just one point,i have been lied to by music stores when i have traded in gear they have reckoned that they could only put my guitar up for a low priceas they dont fetch as much as they used to,a week later its on the shelf for double that amount.Now i dont mind the store making aprofit thats what there their for but dont insult me by lying thats a sure way for me never to come back,lets face it there are plenty of other places i can buy from.Musicians tend to be addicted to buying new gear so this kind of buisness thrives on repeat customers who like to feel they are being looked after.I am no genius and yet a simple fact like this seems to elude a large proportion of music stores.Remember your dealing with artists who are known to be overly sensative so handle them with care.Oh and cheap prices help too.lol.

[gingerjazz]

Obviously space doesn't come cheap, but I have to say I do prefer a room to go into and privately try out stuff - particularly amps.

Great idea jazzy ie never seen this yet

[gingerjazz]

Oh Yeah,if im looking at a guitar and i say id like some time to think about it ,please dont say a guy was in earlier and was gonna come back this afternoon to buy it.Bye the way where is your village,and are you considering doing any kind of mail order i may be able to buy some gear from you.

[jazzbow]

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

Oh Yeah,if im looking at a guitar and i say id like some time to think about it ,please dont say a guy was in earlier and was gonna come back this afternoon to buy it.Bye the way where is your village,and are you considering doing any kind of mail order i may be able to buy some gear from you.

I'm not like that! These types piss me off too!
Mail order will be strings, I'm not planning to do these chain store internet thingies as they are cold and impersonal and too samey. I guess this shop will be 'mom and pop' style with connections to the local community music groups, festivals and clubs.
Village was a bit of a misnomer, County town more like, SW Scotland.
Oh, and where is your list GJ

[JohnW400]

Same as Jazzy Jim. 21435.

The issue I see is that there are two types of stores. "Big box" type and then the smaller niche guy.
a lot more big music retailers that were not part of a chain. You didn't always see the same stock at the different stores like you do nowadays. You go to CG, Sam Ash or what have you and everybody stocks the same stuff. No variety.

There was a store by me that is now a Guitar Center. It used to be a family owned business called Victors House of Music. The guitar department was excellent. The guy running it knew his stuff and kept all kinds of guitars there. Archtops, Gibsons, Fenders etc. And not just the standard stuff either. He always took risks and ordered special stuff that you wouldn't see all over the place. Plus he got in a good supply of trade ins so there was always something new to see/play. Now that store is a Guitar Center with the same stock as all the other Guitar Centers.

Decades ago the Big store in these parts was Muscara Music. Had everything. Even had a seperate building across the street where they gave lessons and sold sheet music. They closed up about 20-25 years ago.

Those type of stores are few and far between now. Although we still have the little guy that sells second hand stuff, music and also does repairs and has lessons. Those stores are also around but I'm sure the internet sites are cutting in on their business as well.

Sorry to go off

[kenbennett]

I have a friend who used to work at a pro store in a big city. He bought his own place in a smaller town and set up a more family friendly store. He says if he can average $100 per sale he can stay in business forever. He has very few instruments that cost over $1000.

[jazzbow]

thanks ken, what's your list?

[stevenfrank38]

The points you mentioned is really very important for any type of business. I think no more thing is needed here. Just carry on.

[jazzbow]

Originally Posted by stevenfrank38

The points you mentioned is really very important for any type of business. I think no more thing is needed here. Just carry on.

Thanks mate, any thing extra to add the list?

[Dad3353]

Originally Posted by jazzbow

...
1. Friendly and knowledgeable staff.
2. Good variety of products and merchandise(instruments, accessoris etc).
3. Educational material(music books, DVD's etc).
4. Customer service(stock ordering, repairs and set ups, etc).
5. Music lessons...

Good afternoon, Jazzbow...

Here's my preference...

1
4
3
2
5

...which I find at our nearest biggish town (Just lucky? No, they're that way because I and others come back to them...).
Advice (for what it's worth..?)?
Don't try to directly compete with the majors and Internet markets. Do rather what they can't do (at least not so well...).
Engender a healthy relationship with local music teachers and schools (if there are none, set something up...). There is a need to stimulate local 'awareness'; music tuition is invaluable.
Regular (quarterly..?) events can keep the subject in the public eye (talent contest, invited guests, café concerts...). Modestly (but professionally...) organised, they become a 'motor' for the surrounding community.
Good luck, whatever...
Hope this helps...

[mangotango]

1
2
4
5
3

and a sense of humour.....

Seriosuly, let us know how it goes, there are too many chains out there and too few "niche" opreators. One thing that helps is a willingness to engage with the local musicians - putting on clinics from visiting Pro players, sponsoring "Battle of the Bands" nights, etc. Win-win for both shop and customers. Just a thought.

And if you can get a top jazz player to visit - see if you can get that Jackson Jeffrey Jackson. I hear that he knows his stuff.

Niiice!

[gingerjazz]

14235 is my list sorry forgot about that too busy ranting.

[gingerjazz]

jazzbow keep in touch,how long will it be before your up and running i will gladly try to buy some stuff from you and hopefully be a regular buyer of strings and the like,smaller buisnesses need all the support us musicians can give

[mongrel]

Back in the late 1990's, due to some quirk in the retail demographics of my neighborhood, there sprung up a Guitar Center and a MARS within two miles of each other, both less than 4 miles from our house. They were like apples and oranges. The GC was usually filled with shredding 13 year olds plugged into dimed Marshalls. The MARS featured an unusual number of older guys that gravitated to archtops and clean amps. The MARS had several small rooms, closet was more like it, in which there was an amp or two and a guitar cable. You could pick an instrument and play it to your heart's content in the closets. The MARS always had more semi's and hollow's than the GC. Alas, the competition and the economy post 9/11/2001 resulted in the illiquidity of MARS, its Chapter 11 and subsequent liquidation. The last event at my MARS advertised only by a handwritten 3" x 5" card taped to the inside of the front window, was a solo concert by Dennis Chambers starting at 7PM the following night (a week night). There were about 100 of us there and I stood right behind Dennis during his entire 45 minute solo on his complete Pearl yellow road kit. I was in fusion heaven imagining myself to be John McLaughlin in Paris or wherever. That was a classy sendoff to a classier than most chain. RIP MARS.

[FWBO]

Originally Posted by jazzbow

Hi guys.

1. Friendly and knowledgeable staff.
2. Good variety of products and merchandise(instruments, accessoris etc).
3. Educational material(music books, DVD's etc).
4. Customer service(stock ordering, repairs and set ups, etc).
5. Music lessons.

Perhaps an angle that hasn't been covered so far.....there is a difference between what I would want and expect from a local music shop and what I would want from a specialist jazz retailer.

Local shop. 4, 1, 2, 5, 3.

2, 5 and 3 are listed "under protest" just to complete the exercise but really 4 and 1 are top priorities.

Specialist jazz shop. 2, 1, 4, 5, 3 and in reality just 2 and 1.


If guitar and amp sales is what you hope to achieve then the best specialist shop I have been in has comfortably equipped private rooms and they bring you all the kit you want to try and compare. They leave you alone for hours and because they have CCTV if you suddenly stand up and start stroking your chin then someone pops in to help.

Another "must" even if you plan to just service local needs is to have a decent webpage that lists your ethos and available skills and service. There is nothing worse than a wasted journey.

[monk]

jazzbow,

As someone who grew up in the days of locally owned "mom & pop" music stores, I much prefer them to the impersonal corporate stores of today. I wish you well if you decide to take the plunge.

Some points to consider.

The best way to ensure longevity is to offer the things that no one can, such as reasonably priced, high quality repair and setup work or anything that a large chain store can't or won't offer.

Offering lessons is advantageous to the store because it guarantees a certain amount of daily foot traffic that results in the small item impulse purchases that will keep the store in business. Good teachers can help generate regular visitors to your store and help you develop loyal customers.

You will need at least one other employee if you plan to teach and do repairs. There will times when you can't drop what you're doing when a customer comes in. That glue joint won't wait and the student is paying for the teacher's undivided attention.

With the advent of eBay, fewer music stores and pawn shops are offering quality used instruments. Lots of folks would rather have these than new.

Regards,
monk

[oldane]

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

I do prefer a room to go into and privately try out stuff - particularly amps.

Great idea jazzy ie never seen this yet

Many years ago we actually had a music shop in Copenhagen with a sound isolated room for trying out instruments. The owner told me that it was not so much for the sake of the custmers, but he couldn't stand to hear all those people playing scales ect. al day long, so he had this room he could send them into.

[jazzbow]

Thanks for the replies people, just for the record where I live is a heavy blues scene and traditional Scottish folk music scene so these guys will be my target audience. The mail order stuff will be more specialised, like reasonably priced gypsy jazz strings(ha ha ha ha).

[Doctor Jeff]

I like a shop with a wide variety of guitars and a knowledgeable and friendly staff that enjoys just talking about guitars, not necessarily giving you the hard sell. And a staff that will get out of the way and just let you play to your heart's content if you're serious.

My favorites: Dave's Guitars in La Crosse, WI, and Willie's Guitars in Minneapolis. Dave's has darn near everything and an awesome collection of vintage instruments as well. Willie's specializes in new and used mainly American-made guitars, including archtops. I am a frequent flyer at both.

[Space Pickle]

55555

Not my preference, but you're going to have a hell of a time running a music shop that doesn't offer lessons. It's probably your most important product.

[kenbennett]

Originally Posted by jazzbow

1. Friendly and knowledgeable staff.
2. Good variety of products and merchandise(instruments, accessoris etc).
3. Educational material(music books, DVD's etc).
4. Customer service(stock ordering, repairs and set ups, etc).
5. Music lessons.

My extra point would be hosting music sessions in store.

1. They don't have to be too friendly.
2. Depends on the type of store.
3. As much as people will buy.
4. Repairs and setups imply a guitar store. What if the store has a good variety of products and services? Then do you have a guitar tech, amp tech, violin tech, horn and reed tech, piano tuner, and so on? So it depends on the type of store.
5. Again, it depends... If it's a store serving mostly pros, probably not.

I have worked as a luthier in several stores that offered music lessons. It's nice when you have teachers who are alert to the condition of their student's instruments. When they notice a problem and you are there fix or adjust whatever they need, it's good for everybody--the store, the student, the teacher, the tech.

[teleman3726]

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

This is just one point,i have been lied to by music stores when i have traded in gear they have reckoned that they could only put my guitar up for a low priceas they dont fetch as much as they used to,a week later its on the shelf for double that amount.Now i dont mind the store making aprofit thats what there their for but dont insult me by lying thats a sure way for me never to come back,lets face it there are plenty of other places i can buy from.Musicians tend to be addicted to buying new gear so this kind of buisness thrives on repeat customers who like to feel they are being looked after.I am no genius and yet a simple fact like this seems to elude a large proportion of music stores.Remember your dealing with artists who are known to be overly sensative so handle them with care.Oh and cheap prices help too.lol.

I agree about being screwed over. But with some research on gbase.com and other sites, you can at least go in with a selling price in mind.
I was looking at a used archtop in NYC and the retailer offered a price "just for me" and then he proceeded to gab like a banshee while I was trying out the guitar and kept telling me how "good it looked on me."
I told him to put it aside if he could but he was under no obligation to do so. I wouldn't give him a deposit but I did tell him I would call with an answer after I did a little research.
As it turned out, this used jazzbox was priced at least $600 higher than what the same guitar would sell for retail. I told him this and to come down on the price and we'll be fine.
He then got pissed off and insisted that he paid more for the guitar than what other retailers were selling the new ones for and reminded me - the first I heard of the term - that "we" had a "gentleman's agreement" for me to buy the box.
Total dick. I was gone.

[jazzbow]

Thanks for your feedback fellas. Some great points and a few eye openers!
I'll keep you posted and put on my web address when it's up and running.

Originally Posted by mangotango

and a sense of humour.....

And if you can get a top jazz player to visit - see if you can get that Jackson Jeffrey Jackson. I hear that he knows his stuff.

Niiice!

Just for you mango........(I hope the jazz police don't hunt me down )

YouTube Video

"I don't blow, I suck!"

[bananafist]

I'd forgotten just how great that section of the fast show was.........NICE!

[tele jazz]

for a local music shop i would like - somewhere i can get bits and bobs, somewhere that has decent guitars - don't stock up on shitty budget beginner brands (always makes my heart sink when i see a shop like that) - somewhere that will order stuff in quickly and at a competitive price. a good second hand range. and somewhere i don't get hassled for trying out the gear, cup of tea would be nice too if you have the time

[M-ster]

Originally Posted by jazzbow

What makes a successful music store/shop?

The short answer is "profitability." Believe me, if you're not breaking even or better, you'll be considering suicide in short order. (Don't ask me how I know!)

In order of preference, list the following 5 aspects of what you would like to see in your local music shop/store and one other thing you feel is important to you.

Personally, as a customer, I'd want

1. A good range of quality/upscale merchandise that I can demo
2. Knowledgable proprieter with exceptional customer service
3. Reasonable-to-great pricing

But, you'll go broke immediately doing that. Instead, if you want to be profitable, you'll

1. Rent band instruments to the local jr. high and high school students (rent-to-own programs are genius)
2. Blow out boatloads of crap, cheapie instruments every Christmas
3. Repair band and other instruments
4. Offer lessons

If you're not into that last list, please reconsider your intentions.

This has been a PSA from a well-meaning forumite.

[woyvel]

Advice to any of you retailers out there: STOP thinking that your customers don't know about your products! Almost every store I walk into thinks I have no idea what I'm talking about, yet I can tell them about things they don't have on the shelf that show up a few months later. Just because I'm over 40, don't have 8 earrings and shoulder length hair, and have a few pounds on me doesn't mean I don't know my gear. Don't assume every guy through the door is a beginner just because he isn't there all the time or you haven't seen him out at clubs.

And then there's this thing called the internet. We know the difference between a list price and street price. When you say it's a great 25% discount price on something that's been sitting in your shop for 6 months and played by every teenager all day Saturday, and I find it online for 40% off list, it's NOT a good deal. And PUH-LLEASE, would someone tune the guitars now and then? It's not MY job every time i go into your store!

Oh, don't get me started! I could go on for days. From the kid that told me I couldn't try a $200 tele copy "...unless your serious about buying it cuz we aren't Guitar Center here, man." to the older, overly-religious lady that repeatedly tells me how great everything in her shop is - She carries mostly low-end stuff (Johnson guitars?) and one high-end, overpriced imported line. Then she always asks me if she saw me at some church I've never gone to.

[Tom Karol]

There's a little hole-in-the wall music store in my town run by an old hippie. He doesn't have much new stuff of interest there, but you never know what you'll find in the used gear dept. However, he can get just about any product I want at a competitive price. He also does lessons and has a really good tech on site 3 days a week. I drop in whenever I'm in the neighborhood just to gab. If he can't get it, I'll find it on the Web.

I had a friend who owned a music store back in the day. He told me he didn't really make any money selling gear - renting band instruments to school systems was actually his bread and butter.