Compare Eastman guitars

[savage8190]

OK so I think I have settled on picking up an Eastman guitar, but now Im left wondering which one.... Im hoping you Eastman owners out there can chime in on what you have, what its like, and how it compares to other Eastmans if you have played any.

What I am looking for is a thinline with good upper fret access and at least one set in humbucker. I was looking for a double cut, but I think as long as its a thinline with a single cut I can deal. This is strictly going to be for Jazz, so versatility is not required. If It helps any my favorite jazzer is Joe Pass...he just has the best tone in my mind, but I just cant play a big bodied guitar, and budget is an issue.

The models I am specifically looking at are the T145, T146, T184, T185, T186 and the El Rey ER1, ER2 or ER3. I think Id be good with the size and playability of any of these, and the price is right, but Id like to know how the sound compares.

Oh and please dont suggest other guitars...this is just about the Eastmans.

[jzucker]

I have owned most of these. The 146 and the 186 have the best jazz tone of the ones you list. Basically, the more air inside, the bigger sound you're going to have. If you like joe pass though, Joe used a plywood guitar. The closest eastman would probably be the 16" 803 with it's parallel bracing.

The spruce top guitars with maple back and sides are going to have a bright adn focused attaack. The maple top guitars with the mahogany back and sides will have a little more bottom end and woodyness. You know, it's really hard to describe these things in words. Check my youtube site. I have several demos of the El Rey and I'll be doing a demo of the 165 and possibly a 186 soon.

[Steve Z]

Jack has some good info in his post. I use to own a T146 and still own an 810ce. The best playing and sounding Eastman (for my ear) has been the Pisano model, which I believe is also very similar to the newer 803ce.

Here are a couple great sound clips/videos that I just found last night that show both the T146 and Pisano model.

Eastman T146...

YouTube Video

The Eastman Pisano is used to demonstrate the build in pickups...

YouTube Video

Cheers,
Steve

[goshawk]

I demo'd an ER-1 and T145 at the same time. Honestly, I don't remember a great deal of difference in tone or playability. I had a slight preference for the T145 because of the more traditional styling, but bought an El Rey because I got a great deal.

In addition to jzucker's videos, Jeff Hale also has short videos on a number of Eastman models you may want to check out, although I think the only thinlines he features are the El Reys.

[savage8190]

Thanks guys! I think Ive watched pretty much every video out there for Eastman guitars and thats why Im so confused....they all sound so great!

I think Im most interested in the 140 series or the El Rey series....really the only reason Im still considering the 180 series is that I like the double cut and there seems to be a lot more of them around (better deals).

Man I wish I could try these things out. It might just come down to whatever I get the best deal on....it really seems like I cant go wrong. Even when it somes to the differences in woods, I like the deeper tones of Mahogony, but I also like the snappy-ness of maple, so that doesn't help....

[jzucker]

what kind of music do you play?

[fep]

FWIW, I did a short sample of an Eastman 803 CE here:

Eastman test.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

[savage8190]

Originally Posted by jzucker

what kind of music do you play?

To be honest I dont REALLY know yet....

I have been playing for awhile, but Ive always been a blues/rock guy; Ive only recently started getting into Jazz. The plan is to go back to school for a Jazz/teaching degree, but I want to make a smart investment in a good guitar now while Im still working and can afford it .

I have an excellent instructor, and he thinks Im not too far off skill wise, but I dont know much actual jazz yet.

I already own a Les Paul and an Epiphone Sheraton, but I want something that I dont use for anything else that I can throw some nice thick flatwounds on (man I love the sound of them, but they are just no good for any other style).

Ive tried out A LOT of Jazz boxes in the last 6 months or so, and I just cant get along with the big bodies, but I do love the sound of the full hollow.

[savage8190]

OK after some thinking about the guitars I have preferred the sound of I am pretty sure I want to go with a maple/spruce model. Can anyone compare the t146 and the El Rey ER2 specifically? Jack, you're videos of the ER2 sound great...what are your thoughts on these two?

[jzucker]

The 146 has a little more hollow character to it. The ER2 is a more modern sounding instrument and has really good upper fret access.

In general the 146 has a fatter tone. If you were getting a single guitar to cover rock or jazz I would say get the ER2.

However, I do have to say that I love the sound of the 185 and 186. It combines the bigger body with better upper fret access than the 146. Gets a very methenyish tone to it.

[basile865]

Savage8190 man, I'm in the exact same boat as you - coming from the rock/blues background - going to the jazz side, and looking at eastmans. I'll be hopefully checking out the T146 soon - actually at the same place of the videos steve z posted.

Jzucker - I really like your style man you sound great.

[savage8190]

Thanks Jack, that again helps. I do want a fatter tone, but I also really appreciate fret access. The 146 seems like the access is not great, the ER2 much better, and the 186 better yet. I guess the 186 is more comparable to the 146 than the ER2 then? If thats the case I might pull a full 180 here and go for the 186 afterall.

Basile: Good luck in your hunt man. I actually almost ordered one from Soundpure, but they will only take wire transfers from us Canadians...no damn credit.

[jzucker]

Yeah, i think you will like the 185 / 186. Do you like Metheny's tone? It reminds me a lot of that...

[M-ster]

Jack, you've played/owned so many of these instruments - what are your opinions on neck width, depth, and scale length? Do you have preferences, etc? How do these guitars compare on those factors?

Thanks!

[jzucker]

Originally Posted by M-ster

Jack, you've played/owned so many of these instruments - what are your opinions on neck width, depth, and scale length? Do you have preferences, etc? How do these guitars compare on those factors?

Thanks!

I don't really have any preferences. I have 24.75, 25 and 25.5 hollowbodies. They each have their unique strengths. My GB10 and PM120 are so easy to play because of the 24.75 scale length. I can use heavier strings on them and they still are very easy to play.

However, the 25.5" scale instruments (my heritage HBs) have a quality to them where the notes just jump out. They seem to cut better too. The added scale length gives them more zing

The 25" scale eastmans have a little bit more zing than the ibanez guitars due to the slightly longer scale length but for all intents and purposes respond like the 24.75" guitars.

My eastmans are 1.75" nut widths and the other guitars are 1 11/16. I don't find much difference going back and forth between them. A while back I had a PRS which had a 1 5/8 nut width. I could feel a difference then when playing fingerstyle but the diff between 11/16 and .75 is negligible to me.

I favor medium C style necks and the heritage/eastman/ibanez guitars all have med c necks. I had a nash tele with a boat neck and I got used to it as well and I do feel that the fatter necks give more sustain and punch but i have small hands and like to use my left hand thumb but chords on occasion...

In short, I don't think there are any concrete advantages to one or the other of the factors of scale length, nut width and depth unless you get to extremes. For example 1 5/8 vs 1 13/16 or ibanez heavy metal neck depth vs boatneck.

I think with practice, we can get used to most of these differences.

The most important part for me is getting the pickguard height consistent. On all my guitars, the pickguard is .25" below the strings. This allows me to switch between them without having to adjust my picking.

[M-ster]

Exactly what I was after - thanks!

Regarding the El Reys: The site generally says 25" scale length, but the details pages say 25 2/5". So, they're almost 25.5"? Is that the case? They have the 1 3/4" neck width, too. So, while I'm attracted to the design and the smaller lower bout, the neck-width and scale might deter me - especially if the neck depth also feels "clubby".

The El Reys don't have pickguards, either, do they? Did that throw you, with respect to your pickguard statement?

Thanks for your input!

[jzucker]

i measured my el rey and it's 25 exactly. The neck does not feel clubby in any way. Have you seen a picture of mine? Mine has the pickguard. The pickguard is optional on those. I got mine with pickguard but couldn't use the original due to my obsessiveness so I had one made.

P.S.

I'm considering selling it to buy another eastman (Pagelli). Let me know if you're interested.

[M-ster]

I think I'd be interested in the ER1, with just the single pickup; but yours *is* beautiful. Cool of you to post the photos, thanks! And, you're easing my fears about the neck and scale.

I caught your video playing it, but I didn't recall that it had the pickguard. I've watched the Jeff Hale explanations on his site, too. And every time I revisit this thread I go back and look at the photo on the Eastman site!

Lust and temptation!

Did you replace your pickups? El Reys come with Kent Armstrongs, right?

[jzucker]

they are using duncans now. Seths or 59s. Not sure which ones mine has without removing them.

[JohnW400]

Jack , you appear to have a lot of experience with Eastman. How do you rate them qc wise. Have you found problem or issues, maybe things you would change?

[NSJ]

I'm doing another round of "guitar consolidation", shedding guitars and trying to get down to a small selection of a few essential guitars (one plywood archtop, one carved, one semi, and one solid body)--almost there, only 2 more left to shed, but the trouble is, I feel like I still need to add another guitar--a 7 string archtop--gonna try to sell/trade an excess plywood 6 string for one 7 string (the old Ibanez 7 string is no longer made--thinking about a 7 string Eastman. Either an El Rey 1 or something like this-an 810CE 7 string--

Eastman 810ce 7 string archtop guitar | eBay)

any thoughts on Eastman 7 strings???

also, I read that Easman applies their finishes like they do for violins, and this is a more meticulous, labor intensive process than regular guitar nitro finishes. True or false?

[Klatu]

Don't sell it. It's a great guitar that seems to work for you.

How would you rate the Duncans on your current El Rey as compared to the Kent Armstrong pickups on your older model. Mine has the Armstrongs, and I haven't thought of switching them out, but I would if there was a significant improvement to be had.

[jzucker]

they're both great pickups. I like the armstrongs a lot. They are a little more transparent without the bottom end that you get out of the duncans but for jazz it's nice. reminds me of the schaller pickups in my heritage

[Klatu]

Originally Posted by jzucker

they're both great pickups. I like the armstrongs a lot. They are a little more transparent without the bottom end that you get out of the duncans but for jazz it's nice. reminds me of the schaller pickups in my heritage

That's good to hear. They sound like fairly "full range" pickups if that makes any sense.

[savage8190]

Just an update...I am now the proud owner of an ER2 (THANKS JACK!) and I am loving it so far. Sounds great, much more full than I thought it would, and so light an small...its just what I was looking for.

[jzucker]

I may be selling the 165 if anyone is interested:

[cmajor9]

Wow! That's the best-looking 165 I've seen. I was looking at those seriously awhile ago, but most didn't have such a nice finish (sometimes Eastman finishes can seem a bit "ambiguous" to me).

[heavyblues]

i have a t146sm. The stock pickup is nice, but I replaced it with a CC...now it is superior imo(in terms of tone and dynamics). If ONLY the CC pickup didn't have so much noise. Despite the noise, that pickup is staying in there and never getting swapped out!

I love mine. Never tried an el rey, but boy they seem awesome.

As a side note, the sort of uneven dynamics, resonance, volume, and punchy attack that i noticed in the t146sm seems to do with the pickup I think(loud warm and seemed hard for me to tame in terms of dynamics). My reasoning being that once I swapped it to the CC, the dynamics cleaned up. The volume, attack and punch backed off perhaps from switching from a humbucker to a 'light' single coil.

Thought I would add that in there, in case you find the 'bold' character of the t-series to be an issue, if at all.

I really want an el rey though, i think they are the future!

[NSJ]

The Eastman El Rey ER1 7 string is fantastic! I swapped an older Gibby for one and have NO REGRETS. it's very neck heavy, and playing with a strap is a must--I installed strap locks on mine.

For the price, it's the best 7 string on the market--lightweight, under 6 pounds, elegant and simple ornamentation, 25" Johnny Smith scale.

Also, learning to play 7 string is a revelation on the deficiencies of the 6 string--for example, playing chords up the neck, you can get proper sounding bass notes that really make the melody notes right true.

The El Reys seem to be Eastmans secret weapon--mine is small and light enough to fit into a Fender gig bag!

[Steve Z]

Originally Posted by NSJ

The Eastman El Rey ER1 7 string is fantastic! I swapped an older Gibby for one and have NO REGRETS. it's very neck heavy, and playing with a strap is a must--I installed strap locks on mine...

Here is an old thread telling that Jeff Hale has an easy, relatively inexpensive fix to get the neck to balance properly...

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...html#post69678


Neck Heavy issue is discussed around 4:30 point of this video...

YouTube Video

Cheers,
Steve