Crapping on D'Angelico's?

teleman3726 · #1 04-07-2011, 07:26 PM

Wonder why so many members here crap on the D'A's? They seem quite good for the price. Very few if any criticize them for their playability - just their materials (which is confined to the top. Not the neck, not the hardware.)
Many Gibby's (ES-style) are constructed in the same manner, I thought. Hmmm.

jzucker · #2 04-07-2011, 07:33 PM

hope you're not referring to my comments. Nothing wrong with them. They're not really dangelicos though. They're vestax guitars with a licensed headstock.

teleman3726 · #3 04-07-2011, 07:43 PM

Not really. I read your comment, but it got me thinking, that's all. I've seen a number of comments about D'A's but nobody really talks about how they play.
Anyway, to your comment, as I understand it, the D'A family is still involved in the business - but they have several companies.
And I agree, they are not the original ones made my John.
But the same can be said about Fender, as an example.
Just saying...

jzucker · #4 04-07-2011, 08:12 PM

the family might be involved but as far as I know, only from a legal aspect. Do you really think D'Angelico would have sanctioned the $999 guitars they are currently making and blowing out on ebay?

teleman3726 · #5 04-07-2011, 08:40 PM

Ask Jeff Hale about the family's involvement in the guitars. That's where I got my info. He's in contact with the company almost daily.
I have no idea if JD would've "sanctioned" the guitars they are currently making. Probably not. But the $999 specials were from a few years back.
Again, I don't think Leo Fender would approve of some Mexicans and Chinese making his guitars either.
The real issue here - and this is the one I raised - is playability and the materials versus others, such as the ES 175. Nobody talks about that.

jzucker · #6 04-07-2011, 08:43 PM

what do they make that's close to a 175? Nothing that I'm aware of. In fact, are they still even in business? I thought they closed their doors recently?

what's up with the deal they had cooked up with Comins that got canceled? Any details on that?

teleman3726 · #7 04-07-2011, 08:49 PM

Ask Jeff Hale about the family's involvement. That's where I got my info. He deals with the company almost on a daily basis.
I suspect JD would not "sanction" the $999 guitars (that was a few years back, incidentally), but I suspect Leo Fender wouldn't be too thrilled about Mexicans and Chinese making guitars under his name either.
But the point I originally made was about playability and materials used in construction - the latter not much different from a 175, as an example.
Nobody really talks about that.

teleman3726 · #8 04-07-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

what do they make that's close to a 175? Nothing that I'm aware of. In fact, are they still even in business? I thought they closed their doors recently?

what's up with the deal they had cooked up with Comins that got canceled? Any details on that?

Yeah, that was a weird one. There were some rumors that they closed up. But from what I heard it was started by some retailer in NYC. I understand it's a practice some use to push their inventory. But Hale called the company and they denied it.
The deal with Comins would have been interesting but apparently it fell through for reasons I'm not aware of. Could've been anything.

teleman3726 · #9 04-07-2011, 08:52 PM

And both the D'A's and the 175's have laminate tops. That's all I was getting at.

jzucker · #10 04-07-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleman3726

Yeah, that was a weird one. There were some rumors that they closed up. But from what I heard it was started by some retailer in NYC. I understand it's a practice some use to push their inventory. But Hale called the company and they denied it.
The deal with Comins would have been interesting but apparently it fell through for reasons I'm not aware of. Could've been anything.

a former dealer is blowing out the comins guitars on ebay. are they all made in korea now?

teleman3726 · #11 04-07-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

a former dealer is blowing out the comins guitars on ebay. are they all made in korea now?

Not sure what you mean by "former dealer blowing out comins..."
From what I heard about the arrangement between Comins and D'A, was that he was going to supervise/oversee, etc. a carved D'A. This is what some were saying at NAAM, actually. Prices were being quoted in the $4K-5K range. But it fell through....

jzucker · #12 04-07-2011, 09:04 PM

no, you're mistaken. The the comins collaboration involved several guitars including a chambered 335 style and a sadowsky semi-hollow style guitar, designed by bill but manufactured in korea.

here's a link to an auction from the former dealer that's blowing them out. This may be his last guitar...

D'ANGELICO EXCEL-SS SEMI HOLLOW BODY GUITAR | eBay

teleman3726 · #13 04-07-2011, 09:12 PM

OK, I did not know about the history there. Jeff only told me about the collaboration that was being bandied about.
The new D'A's are made in Korea, apparently by Sammick.

paynow · #14 04-07-2011, 09:31 PM

This is the best post title in the history of the JGF. I clicked on it immediately, which shows where my mind is.

jzucker · #15 04-07-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleman3726

OK, I did not know about the history there. Jeff only told me about the collaboration that was being bandied about.
The new D'A's are made in Korea, apparently by Sammick.

wow, that's not good IMO. At least vestax is known for really high quality instruments on the level of the high end ibanez guitars.

Think about it. Would D'Angelico really want his guitars made by Sammick? Come on now...Regarding fenders, that's a dumb comparison. Fender was known for making ultra cheap guitars using the latest and cheapest manufacturing techniques. D'Angelico was quite the opposite...

teleman3726 · #16 04-07-2011, 10:00 PM

OK, you've worn me out.
Originally, I asked why members crapped on D'A's for reasons other than playability. To me, that's what's important about a guitar.
Not where it was made, or pointless questions about "what would John have thought?" LOL.
Enjoy your sheet music.

hot ford coupe · #17 04-07-2011, 10:23 PM

I've got two of the Vestax D'A's. If I didn't like them, I wouldn't have two. The only problem with the guitars I found was that they weren't well set up at the factory. Once I dressed the frets and the neck adjustment, the playability went way up. They even have a decent acoustic sound despite the non carved top and back. Plus, they have that really cool art deco New York City vibe.

teleman3726 · #18 04-07-2011, 10:45 PM

A thoughtful answer. Thanks.
The set up is important, no doubt - on all guitars.

spiral · #19 04-07-2011, 11:30 PM

I've commented before that i thought D'Angelicos are just ok for the current prices. I've played the 335-size one and it was non-descript, it felt like a Sheraton. I recently played the thicker one (EXL?) and thought it had a nice feel but the heavy headstock made it really imbalanced. I didn't find that to be true on the Peerless guitars (which obviously rip off D'A).

Overall they didn't seem any better to me than a mid-range Ibanez, Gretsch, Eastman, or Peerless. That isn't to say they are bad guitars. They are really well made and play nicely, but for $1,200 i'd rather have one of the above brands.

They are a well-made Asian guitar, so for me it is just a value issue, not a quality issue.

Jabberwocky · #20 04-08-2011, 03:42 AM

Spiral, Vestax ones or Korean=made ones? I feel that there is quite a world of difference between the Vestax copies and the later Korean ones.

jzucker · #21 04-08-2011, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleman3726

OK, you've worn me out.
Originally, I asked why members crapped on D'A's for reasons other than playability. To me, that's what's important about a guitar.
Not where it was made, or pointless questions about "what would John have thought?" LOL.
Enjoy your sheet music.

I have no problem with the origin of guitars. Two of my favorite guitars (my eastman el rey and eastman 165) are made in China and I've heard nothing but glowing reviews of the (discontinued) comins/dangelico guitars that are korean. It's just sad that they were discontinued and the whole company and product line seems to be a mess with the decision to sell direct and undercut the dealers and then the botched comins deal and now them selling through dealers again and switching manufacturers several times (vestax, heritage, samick)

jzucker · #22 04-08-2011, 06:18 AM

also, playability is a silly measurement. With a setup, any $200 guitar can be made to play like a dream. It's tone that is the important thing.

spiral · #23 04-08-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Spiral, Vestax ones or Korean=made ones? I feel that there is quite a world of difference between the Vestax copies and the later Korean ones.

Pretty sure both were MIK.

spiral · #24 04-08-2011, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

In fact, are they still even in business? I thought they closed their doors recently?

what's up with the deal they had cooked up with Comins that got canceled? Any details on that?

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...-produced.html

mangotango · #25 04-08-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Pretty sure both were MIK.

Vestax guitars were made in Japan.

Vintage Guitar Pro - Vintage Guitars - D'Angelico Guitars

At least mine was, and I'm pretty sure that the others were too. And mine's wonderful.

Don't nobody trying crappin' on it

or I'll bust yo' face.

Or something.

spiral · #26 04-08-2011, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mangotango

Vestax guitars were made in Japan.

yes they were. I played 3 current-production made in Korea ones that D'Angelico and J Hale sell. See the link above which has a quote from J Hale on the origin and history of the Asian models.

thenoviceguitarist · #27 04-08-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

also, playability is a silly measurement. With a setup, any $200 guitar can be made to play like a dream. It's tone that is the important thing.

+1

And I think this gets at the heart of the issue. I think touting the D'As primarily for their playability is mute. As mentioned its a variable that can be adjusted through a proper setup. Whereas the quality of an instrument and the sound it will make, influenced by the materials used and the overall construction process, is rather fixed.

Klatu · #28 04-08-2011, 03:25 PM

I remember listening to the Russell Malone cd with Benny Greene for the first time and just falling in love with Malone's tone. I then went into the CD info to try and find the guitar he used, and it turned out to be a D'Angelico. His tone was woody much the way Wes' tone was in his finest moments.

jzucker · #29 04-08-2011, 03:38 PM

isn't he using a sadowsky semi now?

teleman3726 · #30 04-08-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Spiral, Vestax ones or Korean=made ones? I feel that there is quite a world of difference between the Vestax copies and the later Korean ones.

You know, I played both recently - a MIJ and a MIK. Maybe it's me, I didn't find the former to be any great hell. The MIK was quite good by comparison. Who knows? :P