First archtop purchase (eastman-hagstrom) suggestions wanted

Timbell · #1 03-30-2011, 11:17 AM

Looking into purchasing my first archtop exclusively for jazz. I have two guitars that I have been looking at for the most part. One is a vintage hagstrom jimmy at my local guitar center. It seems overpriced at $1300, with a repaired crack near at the neck pickup, but cosmetically looks great for its age. Also based on what I have found on these guitars it may be dated wrong as a 1970 (but is really a late 70s from the look of it, may send the serial to hagstrom I hear they will still date their vintage guitars) and that is also forcing them to raise the price. I plan to try my best at talking them down another hundred or so, but regardless of the pricing I really enjoy the feel of the guitar. The neck is really slim and easy to maneuver, and the action is perfect. My second choice is the eastman ar605, which I can find for around 1300. I like the idea of the eastmans because I imagine they are known for being higher quality than vintage hagstroms, but I would not be able to play this guitar if I ordered it, and although I primarily just want this guitar for practice by myself I would need to buy a floating pickup for it eventually (which would not bother me). I am still in the works of getting some money put aside. trying to sell gear that I do not use as much recently. If anyone has input on these two guitars, or has experience with the ar605s, please let me know. Or if anyone has a suggestion for something better I should look into under 1500. Thank you.

jzucker · #2 03-30-2011, 05:05 PM

eastmans are hand made and hand carved. i believe the hagstrom's are cnc made and plywood.

mongrel · #3 03-30-2011, 06:03 PM

I'd do the Hag if it plays well. There were very few of the Jimmy's made but who knows how many Eastmans will be cranked out by the Chinese. If the Jimmy is one of the earliest ones, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

jzucker · #4 03-30-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongrel

I'd do the Hag if it plays well. There were very few of the Jimmy's made but who knows how many Eastmans will be cranked out by the Chinese. If the Jimmy is one of the earliest ones, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Ah, the classic xenophobic comment. Those chinese guitars are made by luthiers with more hand work than what goes into a gibson. They are not cranked out. Nice stereotypical generalization though.

I have some demos of my El Rey up at http://www.youtube.com/sheetsofsound

I'll be adding some demos of a 165 next week as well. Don't believe the ridiculous negative press you read on forums about the eastmans. They are great instruments and if you buy used, there are some incredible bargains.

Timbell · #5 03-30-2011, 06:13 PM

thanks for the input. I wasn't sure if I should let that be a deciding factor. But, after thinking about it more I think I would prefer having the eastman, once it is set up I am sure I will appreciate its vibe as much as I did playing on the hagstrom. What are the Eastman necks like?

mongrel · #6 03-30-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

Ah, the classic xenophobic comment. Those chinese guitars are made by luthiers with more hand work than what goes into a gibson. They are not cranked out. Nice stereotypical generalization though.

I have some demos of my El Rey up at YouTube - ????? ?? sheetsofsound

I'll be adding some demos of a 165 next week as well. Don't believe the ridiculous negative press you read on forums about the eastmans. They are great instruments and if you buy used, there are some incredible bargains.

I don't believe any negative press about Eastmans, Gibsons, Agiles or whatevers. "The classic xenophobic comment" was anything but. I would just submit that Eastman is a young company and has many years to produce many more guitars. The Hagstrom in question could very well be one of the early batch which are extremely rare. For the same money and for the purpose he wants to buy the guitar, it is my opinion that the Hag would be a better choice. As you write, there are some incredible bargains on Eastmans. Almost every production instrument depreciates dearly the minute it is purchased new and it will typically take some time, perhaps years, before the resale value reaches the price new. A 30-40 year old instrument, if it was any good new, should have long past that point, adjusted for inflation.

jzucker · #7 03-30-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongrel

I don't believe any negative press about Eastmans, Gibsons, Agiles or whatevers. "The classic xenophobic comment" was anything but. I would just submit that Eastman is a young company and has many years to produce many more guitars.

Not sure what that has to do with anything. Buy a used eastman for around $1k and if you decide to upgrade, you shouldn't have any trouble getting your money back out of it.

The necks on the eastmans are Medium C. About like an Ibanez Benson. Not quite as fat as a gibson 30/60 neck.

Timbell · #8 03-30-2011, 06:25 PM

The hagstrom is one of the later models I believe, could be wrong, I have not checked the serial yet. I guess there is a lot of variation between the quality in the old jimmys since there was two major batches, one before 76 and another after, finishing production by 79. It is a beautiful guitar and I would love to have it, but at the same price the eastman is very alluring. My main acoustic is a j45 from the 50s, I love the tone it gets with the mahogany sides and back. So I can imagine the eastman will be closer to my ideal tone especially for jazz where I prefer a warm tone. I live in Orlando and I don't know of anywhere close that stocks eastmans but I will be keeping my eyes open so I can try one out before decision day comes.

edit: I don't know the full history of the hagstroms, but I think in 69 there was a batch with only 2 knobs, they then changed it to the 4 knob version before 76 and after that it was the same but with downgraded hardware?

jzucker · #9 03-30-2011, 06:27 PM

take a look at heritage too. There are some unbelievable deals on used heritage guitars and you can also get the eagle with mahogany back and sides and they are very reasonably priced (used). Just be aware that some of them may need a fret level.

Timbell · #10 03-30-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

take a look at heritage too. There are some unbelievable deals on used heritage guitars and you can also get the eagle with mahogany back and sides and they are very reasonably priced (used). Just be aware that some of them may need a fret level.

I wish I could find one in my price range. I have been looking at heritages for a while now, and don't seem to find even the lower end ones going for under 1500 used.

NSJ · #11 03-30-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbell

I wish I could find one in my price range. I have been looking at heritages for a while now, and don't seem to find even the lower end ones going for under 1500 used.

a Prospect STD used can be found for under a grand--it's an amazing guitar--I regret selling mine even if I made a slight profit (800 bought to $900 sold).

That said, I wound up replacing it with the only bargain in the Gibson factory-- an ES 339 (incidentally, Mr Zucker's glowing review on his site and YouTube initially inspired me to go check out the 339, and I'm glad I did--although I did commit "blasphemy" by swapping out the neck '57 Classic for a Charlie Christian for HB route--via Jason Lollar).

NSJ · #12 03-30-2011, 07:03 PM

At some point, I'm gonna see about trading one of my remaining guitars for an Eastman El Rey ER1 7 string--now that the old Ibanez 7 string arch tops are no longer produced, that El Rey 7 string seems like the most affordable quality 7 stringer around.

Timbell · #13 03-30-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSJ

a Prospect STD used can be found for under a grand--it's an amazing guitar--I regret selling mine even if I made a slight profit (800 bought to $900 sold).

That said, I wound up replacing it with the only bargain in the Gibson factory-- an ES 339 (incidentally, Mr Zucker's glowing review on his site and YouTube initially inspired me to go check out the 339, and I'm glad I did--although I did commit "blasphemy" by swapping out the neck '57 Classic for a Charlie Christian for HB route--via Jason Lollar).

Wow a bunch on ebay for pretty cheap right now. I haven't really considered a semi-hollow, since I want this guitar for more traditional jazz studies, but I wouldn't hold it past the es 339 to get nice jazz tones with the tone rolled back.

NSJ · #14 03-30-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbell

Wow a bunch on ebay for pretty cheap right now. I haven't really considered a semi-hollow, since I want this guitar for more traditional jazz studies, but I wouldn't hold it past the es 339 to get nice jazz tones with the tone rolled back.

I ONLY used Prospect STD as a jazz box--fantastic,clear clean tone with very nice sustain on the neck pup. I only use the 339 as a jazz box--I'm sure the CC does not "blend" well with the bridge pup, but who cares??? I never use the bridge pup anyway

. The CC gives it an incredible clarity and totally obliterates any possible muddiness.

tonedeaf · #15 03-30-2011, 07:23 PM

If you get the Eastman, adding the PU is pretty easy. I have an 805CE and wanted to change the PUs and the stock electronics (which are not very good). So, instead of modfiying the existing pickguard and I just bought a new one (about $65) and put all quality stuff on the new pickguard (the pickguard comes with the neck mount already in place). I put on an SD Benedetto 6, which tremendously impoves the response but lacks a little of the "soul" of the Kent Armstrong.

jzucker · #16 03-30-2011, 08:54 PM

the electronics in the eastman are fine IMO.

pollysurfs · #17 03-30-2011, 10:37 PM

just got one with f holes, unfortunately haven't gotten into her much yet let alone set her up, broke since the purchase and too busy with work, she be gorgeous though and quite comfortable

Timbell · #18 03-31-2011, 12:10 AM

Eastman AR605 Archtop Jazz Guitar New Mohagany - eBay (item 390301503609 end time Apr-27-11 12:33:11 PDT)

that is the exact one I was looking at. If anyone has a suggestion for online dealers with prices like this on eastmans I could use it. If not this may be the one I get if I could unload a couple fender amps on craigslist.

tonedeaf · #19 03-31-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbell

Eastman AR605 Archtop Jazz Guitar New Mohagany - eBay (item 390301503609 end time Apr-27-11 12:33:11 PDT)

that is the exact one I was looking at. If anyone has a suggestion for online dealers with prices like this on eastmans I could use it. If not this may be the one I get if I could unload a couple fender amps on craigslist.

I got a pretty good price on my 805CE from these guys:
Guitars Plus USA: Contact and Location

tonedeaf · #20 03-31-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

the electronics in the eastman are fine IMO.

Do you have one of the older ones with a regular volume pot or one of the new ones with the thin little plastic pots that stick out from the edge?

I think the older ones have better electronics. On my newer one the only postion I could put the tone pot in without getting distortion was rolled completely off. The volume pot was OK, but 90% of the volume range was in the middle 10% of the mechanical range --made it hard to make small volume changes.

jzucker · #21 03-31-2011, 09:56 PM

neither. Mine use standard pots drilled through the top. I understand what you're saying if you have one of the pickguard mounted systems.

djelley · #22 04-01-2011, 02:07 PM

Hi guys,

I'm new around here, but thought I might chime in. I've always been a huge fan of the Ibanez Artcore Customs and still play one as my main practice guitar. I recently picked-up a used Eastman AR805-CE on ebay and I am amazed at how good it is.

My "number one" guitar is a Gibson ES175 and the Eastman absolutely blows it away acoustically. Of course, this is because it is a carved, thin, solid top as opposed to laminate. Regardless, the Eastman just plays and sounds fantastic.

Timbell · #23 04-01-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djelley

Hi guys,

I'm new around here, but thought I might chime in. I've always been a huge fan of the Ibanez Artcore Customs and still play one as my main practice guitar. I recently picked-up a used Eastman AR805-CE on ebay and I am amazed at how good it is.

My "number one" guitar is a Gibson ES175 and the Eastman absolutely blows it away acoustically. Of course, this is because it is a carved, thin, solid top as opposed to laminate. Regardless, the Eastman just plays and sounds fantastic.

thanks, I do love the tone of a es 175, but that is a bit out of my price range. I like the idea of a nice acoustic tone for practice and just throwing a nice pick up on it for small gigs. Someday hopefully I will have an es 175 to go with my eastman as well.

jzucker · #24 04-01-2011, 03:27 PM

one thing to keep in mind is that an acoustic with an add-on pickup will feedback like crazy if you are playing loud.

Timbell · #25 04-01-2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

one thing to keep in mind is that an acoustic with an add-on pickup will feedback like crazy if you are playing loud.

If i play in small bars or a school auditorium size place would I experience a lot of problems with feedback? Kind of concerned about that. I am about to buy an ar805 if I win it on ebay. This is not really a factor if I buy it or not but I hope I am able to just add a pick up on this guitar and get some good low tone jazz sounds from a used polytone or low watt fender tube.