Tips for making sure you're getting a fair price?

[Brian B.]

Hello friends,

Sometime this month I'm planning on buying an archtop (in the under 1500 range) ... after many years of not owning a guitar at all. If I end up buying new, I have a pretty good idea of what's a fair price (by doing a lot of internet searching and seeing the range of asking prices). I may well want to buy a used instrument, though. Is there a blue book of sorts where I can verify what a reasonable price would be for a particular model in a particular condition? I realize there are so many variables (so much of which might not be obvious to a layman) that it might make this practically impossible ... but I thought I'd ask. The last time I bought a used instrument (about 30 years ago) I just walked into a store and paid the asking price. I probably paid a couple of hundred dollars more than the person was willing to sell it!

Thanks for any tips!

[Brian B.]

PS: I'm in central NJ.

[Banksia]

I go through ebay, searching "jazz guitar" or "archtop" and make up a list of about 40 then watch them through to the end - without bidding, of course. Then I do it again. And again. After a few months, not only will you have a very clear idea of what a particular axe is worth but, you will also realise how many hundreds there are available. This helps because you will be less tempted to impulse-buy and you will also be able to walk away if the price is ridiculous, because you know there'll be another one tomorrow.

[Brian B.]

I've never used EBay before (for anything). Is it possible to just look at "completed" sales, and skip the having to follow the bidding part ... or are they taken down afterward?

[Banksia]

The sold items stay up for a while, a week or so. If you want a shortcut, just make a list of items finishing in the next 2 days. You can sort by Date listed, Low price to high price, etc. I think you can make a short list without having to join.

I think it is the most accurate price guide around because you see the real price people paid, the number of people bidding, and how long the item took to sell. I've seen guitars take 3 months to sell. If you had made an offer you might have got it cheaper.

[JazzyJim]

Originally Posted by Brian B.

I've never used EBay before (for anything). Is it possible to just look at "completed" sales, and skip the having to follow the bidding part ... or are they taken down afterward?

Yep - if you click on the "Advanced Search" tab next to the searchbar, it gives you the option to look up completed. It's a pretty useful function for "ballpark" figures.
Your best bet would be to find an instrument you like, then scour the net for prices, rather than the other way around, IMO.

[NiAg]

My opinion is to go more or less in order:

1. Figure out what you want in a guitar. Maybe get down to a specific model or two. Now you can concentrate. Broad market research is all well and good, but in the end it is one you buying one guitar. Focus on the current market for one or two guitars.

2. >>> Is there a blue book of sorts Yes. But it is sufficiently inaccurate to be inferior to the basic research suggested above. For example, a blue book price for a used Epi Byrdland might be around $1,200, but the real going rate is more like $1,700 to $2,000+. On the other hand, you can often get a great Guild archtop for "below blue book" cost. Ebay completed listings (as already suggersted) can be very helpful, although there are anomalies. Guitar-museum.com is very spotty, but shows some sale prices and dates that can show trends. Harmony Central review prices can be odd; they make no sense to me at all (much like the site in general). I would not suggest using prices shown there as a guideline.

3. Consider both private sales and dealers. Gbase will show many dealers - some have fairly good prices.

4. Budget for a very extensive setup with some minor repairs. A new nut, fret dressing, possible partial fret replacement, plus minor electronic and cosmetic work can easily run $150 plus.

5. Smile. There has probably never been a better time to buy a used archtop. Sure, the economy is bouncing back, but used guitars still are at somewhat depressed prices.

[goshawk]

Given your location, it might be worth your while to take a roadtrip. There are two retailers in New Jersey who have good reputations and carry an array of archtops you could try out: Golden Age in Westfield and Guitars n Jazz in Summit. You could also check out their websites for an idea of what they're asking for new and used instruments:

goldenageguitars.com

guitarsnjazz.com

[RoyaleT]

Golden Age in Westfield and Guitars n Jazz in Summit are great sources, and to that you might try 9 South Guitars in Freehold. His inventory is on his web site, also.

[spiral]

It is hard to know what is fair on every guitar. If you can narrow it down to a few models, you can start to know what features make a guitar worth more or less (type of body, hardware, maker, etc). I was in NJ last year and it was very instructive to me to play guitars in every price range, even ones that i couldn't afford. It just confirmed that 10x's the price does not mean 10x's the guitar.

All that was said above i agree with. I only wanted to add:

• Search completed ebay auctions and craigslist (google: "guitar name site:craigslist.org") for specific models. You will start to see a range that people are currently paying.
• Mandolin Brothers is in NY and may be worth at least looking on their site.
• Golden Age and Guitars N Jazz are good. For golden age, make sure if you want something you are able to go back and get it in person (i can never get him to call or email back) and with guitars N jazz, make sure to have some model types on a list somewhere. They have tons of guitars but most of them are not in the "showroom" which is very very very tiny. Also email or call ahead with what you are looking for because it is appointment only (it's part of a pharmacy).

[Archie]

Just ask us. We'll be happy to tell you.

[Brian B.]

Hello friends,

I'm apologize for the cross posting, but a while back a posted several queries (about inexpensive archtops, USB Audio Interfaces, & books of chord melody arrangements). I ended up with a Peerless Monarch (from Lou at Guitar 'n Jazz who was just great to me!) a Line 6 POD GX, and the beautiful Barry Galbraith Solo Guitar books. I couldn't be happier with each of them. Thank you very much for your advice and help!

Here's a (very rough!) sample on Youtube:

YouTube - Last Night When We Were Young (arr. Barry Galbraith)

Brian

[va3ux]

Very nice playing Brian. And the guitar looks and sounds great

[X-500]

Originally Posted by Brian B.

PS: I'm in central NJ.

Hello Brian,

I thought I was the only chord melody player in central NJ! Nice playing!

[Guitars 'n Jazz]

Originally Posted by spiral

..with guitars N jazz, make sure to have some model types on a list somewhere. They have tons of guitars but most of them are not in the "showroom" which is very very very tiny. Also email or call ahead with what you are looking for because it is appointment only (it's part of a pharmacy).

Hi guys,

This is Lou from Guitars ‘n Jazz.

I hope this doesn’t go against forum rules - I just wanted to comment on the above post and give our side of the story!

While we may not have every guitar hanging on the wall I do feel our showroom works for us.

Not only do we have over 120 archtops on the wall, we also have over 350 archtops in our humidified stockroom right down stairs. We even have a baby grand piano and an upright bass in the showroom and plenty of amps to demo.

We still show by appointment only to give you the freedom to play all the guitars you like in private, without distractions. We now have guitar techs most days so appointments or repairs are generally as easy as a phone call.

Unfortunately we can't keep the door always open, because most visitors would never leave. Some have asked us to lock them in for the night so they could play all 120 archtops on display!

No doubt it would look great to have all 500 guitars hanging on the wall, but honestly it just isn’t the most practical for us since we ship out so many guitars.

So in order to offer the best value and selection possible it’s important to make the most of what we can!

If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Lou

[JohnW400]

Lou,

Whatever happened to that oval hole Koontz?

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Guitars 'n Jazz

I hope this doesn’t go against forum rules - I just wanted to comment on the above post and give our side of the story!

While we may not have every guitar hanging on the wall I do feel our showroom works for us.

Not only do we have over 120 archtops on the wall, we also have over 350 archtops in our humidified stockroom right down stairs. We even have a baby grand piano and an upright bass in the showroom and plenty of amps to demo

Hey Lou. Just to be clear, my comment was not a knock against your store at all. To the contrary: it was a knock against my poor planning. You guys were very generous with your time but i should have at least had a mental list of stuff i wanted to play. The things that i could think of, you were able to fetch from the storeroom. I really enjoyed being able to play so many quality of instruments all at one time, but next time i will have a better idea of what i am looking for, and i would still recommend anyone visiting does the same.

Hopefully that is more clear.

[hot ford coupe]

Originally Posted by Guitars 'n Jazz

Hi guys,

This is Lou from Guitars ‘n Jazz.

I hope this doesn’t go against forum rules - I just wanted to comment on the above post and give our side of the story!

While we may not have every guitar hanging on the wall I do feel our showroom works for us.

Not only do we have over 120 archtops on the wall, we also have over 350 archtops in our humidified stockroom right down stairs. We even have a baby grand piano and an upright bass in the showroom and plenty of amps to demo.

We still show by appointment only to give you the freedom to play all the guitars you like in private, without distractions. We now have guitar techs most days so appointments or repairs are generally as easy as a phone call.

Unfortunately we can't keep the door always open, because most visitors would never leave. Some have asked us to lock them in for the night so they could play all 120 archtops on display!

No doubt it would look great to have all 500 guitars hanging on the wall, but honestly it just isn’t the most practical for us since we ship out so many guitars.

So in order to offer the best value and selection possible it’s important to make the most of what we can!

If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Lou

Humina humina hmahor rg pfg geoijgk ptgptp'a drool drool drool.
I can't stand it when Isee so many great instruments in one place. I get incoherentand I drool like a St. Bernard. In the top photo, that blond D'A in the middle caught my attention big time. I just wish I had the bucks for that.

[matsker]

this is the post i really needed to see..thankyou..i am so close to buying this 1979 guildx500/..the dealer will not budge he is selling it for someone..he wants his cut..i do not think(dealer)the asking price is fair..i am close to NJ..iwill check out these other shops,,,thankyou for the insight

[Guitars 'n Jazz]

The Koontz was actually sold to a teacher (in Chicago, Il) that knew and worked with Sam Koontz when he was building these guitars. He felt very fortunate to be able to play one of these again.

[Guitars 'n Jazz]

Originally Posted by Brian B.

Hello friends,

I'm apologize for the cross posting, but a while back a posted several queries (about inexpensive archtops, USB Audio Interfaces, & books of chord melody arrangements). I ended up with a Peerless Monarch (from Lou at Guitar 'n Jazz who was just great to me!) a Line 6 POD GX, and the beautiful Barry Galbraith Solo Guitar books. I couldn't be happier with each of them. Thank you very much for your advice and help!

Here's a (very rough!) sample on Youtube:

YouTube - Last Night When We Were Young (arr. Barry Galbraith)

Brian

Brian- You make that Monarch sound wonderful! Get back to playing and send me the links to any new videos.

[JohnW400]

Originally Posted by Guitars 'n Jazz

The Koontz was actually sold to a teacher (in Chicago, Il) that knew and worked with Sam Koontz when he was building these guitars. He felt very fortunate to be able to play one of these again.

Who was the previous owner? Was it Vic Cenicola? I ask because I know Vic had one but I never saw him play it

[Guitars 'n Jazz]

This one was originally made for Bob Devos in the 70's, and I think that he waited 2 years for it.

[Solo Flight]

Here's a tip for getting a fair price and great service - go see Lou at Guitars N Jazz. Wish I could give him some more business but I'm perfectly happy with the Eastman he sold me 5 years ago. The perfect place to buy an archtop - plus you can get your prescription filled at the same time!

[fumblefingers]

generally, for a new retail archtop i always get a 35% "discount". i would say accept nothing less than 25% off. custom orders may not be as favorably priced.

for the used market i would expect about the same but am not a used market guy.

i would say, think about what you want to pay and low-ball the dealer. see what they counter with. then drop it a little below that to see if they bite.