Gypsy guitar strings

[eddue]

Good Day All!

I recently bought a Gitane D-500 guitar and expecting delivery soon. I am not sure about the strings that on currently on the guitar but know they are not original. I am asking for string suggestions from anyone with experience with this style of guitar? I did search the forums here and got a little information but still open to suggestions. I use Thomastiks on all of my guitars and basses but not sure which has been tried and preferred for the Gitane. Of course I am open to other brands as well.

Also is this guitar strictly for steel strings or have nylon string been used successfully, Mine is acoustic only no electronics. And speaking of pickups, has anyone tried floating pickups as used on some archtops? I have a microphone but would like pickup options that do not require major modifications.

Thanks in advance!

Eddue

[Stackabones]

I use Savarez Argentines -- the 11s, which is common for the D500 and other D-holes. I like the fact that you can get loop-ended strings, though the D500 will accomodate ball ends. IME, stock up on extra G strings for they tend to wear out the quickest. YMMV.

I don't think nylons would work at all, though I guess you could try it. Not enough tension to drive the top and make it bark, ya know? Gitane is making a D-hole with nylons, and there are a few others out there, though it's uncommon. I researched them a couple of years ago and all the prices were just too high. Even the new Gitane D-hole nylon is just a bit higher than I'd like to spend.

Thomas Dutronc plays a nylon D-hole, but I can't remember who made his.

I use a Schertler system that attaches to the braces inside the guitar. Minimal surgery required. Sounds good. Mic works just fine depending on the gig and the soundman. Not sure if floating pup is possible, but something like a Stimer or Peche a mouche (sp?) would work quite well.

[Pothcra]

I personnaly had too many quality issues with Savarez Argentines. You can choose from any of these strings, as they are all made for gypsy jazz guitars
Strings
I use the d'Addario because they are cheap, sound good enough and are pretty resistant. Anyways, to get the gypsy sound, technique is very important, especially righ hand technique. Strings are not the main factor, but getting the right ones help.
Concerning amplification, there are many options. I doubt you have enough space to fit a floating PU, but I guess it wouldn't be impossible. Piezzo pick-ups in the bridge, stimer style PU and clip-on microphones (AT831b style) are all commonly used methods of amplification, and they all have their pros and cons. Piezzo PU are the simplest to use, less feed-back, but sound less natural. Stimer will give you a more electric sound but are removable. Clip-on mics give nice acoustic sound, but are more sensitive to feed-back.

[eddue]

Thanks for the responses so far.

I saw this: Djangobooks.com • View topic - Gypsy strings: User's review

which talks a lot about strings with no definite clear choice. Some was just restating what has been said here. One interesting comment on Thomastik swings along with all the usual suspects and a few others thrown in. I was surprised to hear how short the string life of some of these string. I know it has a lot to do with sound preferences, acidity of the hands, how much they are played etc, but only lasting a few days seem way too short to me. What has been the string life by members of this site?

I have spent many years (and too much money) trying to find the right strings for my basses and guitars. My main instrument is the upright bass and at $200+ a set I have learned how expensive and time consuming it can be. And that research and seeing what has worked for others only takes me so far until I have to try a few sets to see what will work for me. Guitar string are a lot cheaper, but there seem to be more choices.

Unfortunately, no one I know personally or store in my area has this type of guitar for me to try out so I will have to try a few sets and see what works. Phosphor bronze, silk and steel, Thomastik swing, Savarez Argies, flat or round wound???

Any and all suggestions and comments will be greatly appreciated.

[Pothcra]

I don't see the point of using flatwound on a gypsy jazz guitar (phosphor/bronze either in fact). It's like buying a violin and trying to make it sound like a trumpet. To get the gypsy feel, I would suggest sticking to "gypsy jazz" strings. Other then the d'Addario, I like the Newtone strings. Less of a typical gypsy sound, but they give great definition, sound good and last.

[Stackabones]

Yeah, no flats. Stay with gypsy jazz strings. I'll stick by my Argies, even with the G string going out. The rest of the set haven't been a problem.

[eddue]

How long do they last? How much do you play them?

[Stackabones]

I haven't been playing it lately, but I used my Gitane D500 for my main gig guitar (solo/vox sets) for about a solid year (I'm currently digging my archtop Epi Zephyr Regent for gigs). In that time, I was playing about 4-5 times a week doing 2-hr sets (plus 30 lessons a week). I'd go through a G string every week or two, but the others I'd only replace as needed -- which is to say I didn't replace them too much.

btw, I hardly ever played gypsy jazz on it. Almost impossible to find GJers in my area, but I played some Django tunes in my solo sets & did a bunch of standards as well as some other genres. Also, I employed la pompe to get that rhythmic drive and used Wegen 3.5mm Gypsy Jazz Picks.

Love that guitar. It's the guitar I take to any acoustic jam. Nothing can keep up. I don't really like singing with it in acoustic situations due to its big voice. If I sing with it and I'm not plugged in, I have to use a really light touch or just go fingerstyle.

[eddue]

I will pick up a set to try, maybe a set of D'addario's, Pearse and GHS also. Only way to know for sure is to try a few and see/hear/feel for myself what I like.

Any other suiggestions?

One thing for sure, experimenting with guitar strings is a lot cheaper than pickups or doublebass strings!

[wallburg]

After trying most of the gypsy strings on the market, I'm stuck with the Galli GSB 10. To my ears they produce the most authentic sound. They last a couple of month, playing about an hour a day. And besides: What is good enough for Stochelo Rosenberg is good enough for me!

[mr. beaumont]

I use argentines (10 gauge) on my long scale grande bouche.

Had one G string snap as I was tuning it up, other than that, no problem.

I get about a month of life out of them--I can stretch it to a month and a half, but then I really hear the difference when I re-string.

I've got two sets left, and then I'm going to try the Nuages, I think...


Gypsy guitars NEED gypsy strings, even if you're not going to play gypsy jazz on em...it's just a match made in heaven...when you hear it, you know.

[eddue]

Anyone ever try the Pyramid Gypsy Jazz Django strings? What about GHS? It's interesting how the same strings get both good and bad recommendations.

I see that D'addario, GHS and Gitane strings are made in the USA so I will give them a try for sure. Savarez, Pearse and Galli seem to be favored by many. I haven't actually had anyone suggest the Pyramids but going by their other strings they might be worth a try.

One more question:

Most strings lose some of their brightness once they are broken in, then lose a lot more of it after a while. Anyone here prefer their strings after they lose a lot of the bright sound or is the brightness what you desire most in a gypsy jazz guitar?

So, new strings or well broken in strings?

[Stackabones]

I guess I don't mind mine broken in a bit. Were I to jam with other GJers I would want fresh, bright strings, but I tend to go solo and sing while doing so and like them settled in a bit.

I haven't really tried those other strings, and I didn't even know most of them existed. As you do your string search, try to record each set so that later you can compare/contrast.

[mr. beaumont]

I like them a little broken in...to me, they sound best with a few hours on them, and with the amount I play that guitar, I get a few weeks with that sound I like before things get too dull...I usually end up noticing it when jamming with someone with fresher strings...the guitar never really sounds "bad."

[eddue]

Originally Posted by Stackabones

I guess I don't mind mine broken in a bit. Were I to jam with other GJers I would want fresh, bright strings, but I tend to go solo and sing while doing so and like them settled in a bit.

I haven't really tried those other strings, and I didn't even know most of them existed. As you do your string search, try to record each set so that later you can compare/contrast.

I will certainly keep notes on each set as I try them. I'll keep posting my progress.

Do you think the guitar sounds a lot different 5 or 10 feet away compared to what you hear while playing? Sometime the audience hears something different than what the guitarist hears. I am assuming that this guitar projects very well but not sure how much the sound changes at a distance, being strictly an acoustic instrument.

[Stackabones]

Originally Posted by eddue

Do you think the guitar sounds a lot different 5 or 10 feet away compared to what you hear while playing? Sometime the audience hears something different than what the guitarist hears. I am assuming that this guitar projects very well but not sure how much the sound changes at a distance, being strictly an acoustic instrument.

Of course. I've rarely come across any guitar where this isn't the case. This guitar will jump across a room -- assuming you are using proper technique (such as the rest-stroke technique and la pompe) and heavy picks. If you rest your wrist on the bridge like an electric player (or as many acoustic plug-in players do), it's a very different sounding guitar. I've used GJ techniques on all my acoustic instruments and had great results in tone, dynamics, etc.

[mr. beaumont]

I play a D hole (grande bouche) and the cat I jam with regularly uses a petit bouche and we'll swap guitars every now and then and I'm completely amazed at how it sounds to hear someone else play my guitar.

I've noticed this with other guitars, mind you, but rarely such a marked difference!

[jazzbow]

Originally Posted by eddue

I was surprised to hear how short the string life of some of these string. I know it has a lot to do with sound preferences, acidity of the hands, how much they are played etc, but only lasting a few days seem way too short to me. What has been the string life by members of this site?

Unfortunately, no one I know personally or store in my area has this type of guitar for me to try out so I will have to try a few sets and see what works. Phosphor bronze, silk and steel, Thomastik swing, Savarez Argies, flat or round wound???

Any and all suggestions and comments will be greatly appreciated.

Hi eddue.
Yeah, I find the savarez, nuages, argentines all have short life span due to the soft alloy metal that they are made from. Considering they can cost up to £10 sterling per pack put me off. I have tried phosphor bronze 10's which sound a little warmer but sound the same-ish as the 'proper' strings when amplified with a piezio bridge pickup. This is an easy fix but does not really have the same sound. In a search for saving cash over sound I'm trialing thomastic alloy 10's with a wound G, sounds fine and the 'old girl' still bangs like a canon and growls like beast.

As far as stringing up a maccaferri guitar it's the tension on the tailpiece and the downward pressure on the sound board we have to be aware of! The higher the tension of your strings the possibility of some sort of damage.
To really geek out, the sound board of these guitars are made in two different ways, one way is to carve in the arch onto the bracing and force the soundboard on when gluing, the other way that selmer produced these guitars was to bend a creace into the sound board with a luthiers bending iron before gluing! This method was called a 'pliage' and some burn marks can be detected on the inside of your £25,000+ vintage selmers. Check the link

Maccaferri Pliage

Notably the D hole is considered more of a rhythm guitar and the oval hole with its cutting tone more of a soloist instument, so try out a set of phosphor 10's for the warmer tone, Martin guitar strings are cheapest/nicest sounding.

Hope this helps

[eddue]

Very interesting! I am hearing pro's and con's about the phosphor bronze strings.

I like Thomastik strings, they seem to last a lot longer than most strings, and was hoping that they made a Gypsy Jazz string or something close to it. I know Pyramid strings are good strings also but I don't know one seems to have tried their GJ strings.

[mr. beaumont]

Maybe amplified with a piezo there's not much of a difference, but acoustic sound and most of all --feel--let's just say there's no way phosphor bronze strings are going on my gypsy jazz guitarr.

Oh, and I did try the gitane strings...crap. little dents in the wound strings after one gig.

[frogeye]

When I bought myself a Gypsy guitar it was for one reason: I wanted that Gypsy sound. The guitar was brand new and came with Savarez Argies and sounded great even with me playing it. So a few days went by and I noticed the g string being on it's way out. I felt that this was a little too fast and after going through a few sets and a fair amount of extra g strings I started trying other strings. D'Addario, GHS, Gitane, etc. I ended up coming back to the Argentines because I simply like their tone on my guitar and I made peace with the idea that since I want to get a Selmer style tone, I shouldn't be so concerned if the strings last long or are cheaper or anything. I buy the strings that sound best. And I'm using a 3.5 mm Wegen pick. And if changing g-strings becomes to annoying I'll be selling the damn guitar. (just kiddin' :-) )
... just my 2 cents worth...

[HotClubBrampton]

Savarez Argentines is the way to go
Djangobooks is a great place to buy. 100% recommended.
Btw, it is all about the right technique for GJ; if you are not using the D500 for it, well...pretty much whatever sounds good to you will be ok.

[82Benedetto]

+1 on the Argentines. I've not had any problems with them, and I think you can grab some sets pretty cheaply at www.juststrings.com

[eddue]

Just wanted to say thanks to all who took the time to reply to my post. I got a lot of responses, sometimes conflicting opinions, but all helpful in some manner.

As a bassist who plays some guitar, I went through a similar process with upright bass strings and see some similarities. Among jazz bassists, the standout string is Thomastik Spirocore. Most either use it or have used it because it works well in most situations and serves as a reference to gauge other strings. Here, the choice seems to be Savarez Argentines, for the same reasons.

Another thing I have found out about strings is that there is 3 phases in the life of a string. Newly installed, broken in and when they go dead. In the case of the Spirocores, it's the broken in phase that most want in a bass string. With a lot of the brightness gone (usually takes a few weeks to months in some cases) the strings have that great tone and growl most bassist prefer for the modern jazz sound. Luckily, since the strings are a lot more expensive, this phase can last for years. Believe it or not, some have been in use 10 or more years. A lot of bassists have experimented with different strings to find their sound and even though some find that they prefer other strings most end up returning to spirocores.

What I am assuming about Gypsy Guitar strings is that while they go through the same phases, it seems that some here prefer the first phase, when string have the new, very bright tone. This might explain why many say that the life of the strings are very short, like days or even hours in some cases. And the brightness is important to the GJ sound.

There also seem to be a lot here that prefer the second phase, after the initial break in period period. For some this seems to be a few days while for others it can last a few weeks or even months. Despite some quality issues and their connection to Django, the Argentines appear to be the standard of the Gypsy Guitar strings. My research says that while they may last a few days for some players, others may use them for a few months. A lot of the differences may be due to tone preferences, playing styles, amount of actual playing time, sweat or string cleaning issues etc. but they seem to be the best way to start. I also take into consideration that some players have other factors that determine how often they change strings, like a player with string endorsements and access to free strings or professionals with better paying gigs who can afford to change strings more often and maybe write them off for tax purposes as opposed to some who play as a hobby or semi-pro. And if playing strictly acoustically, the brightness of new strings may help them to be heard when playing with bigger groups or when having to play louder to be heard.

Please keep in mind that everything said here is strictly based on my research and my overall experience with guitar and bass strings. I am expecting delivery of my Gitane D500 in a day or so. It has DR silver wound strings on it now, not sure if they are meant to be Gypsy Jazz strings. I found a good price on Pyramid strings so I ordered some and plan to buy a few sets of Savarez, D'addario and GHS locally. I will try to order the Galli strings also.

Since the guitar isn't my main instrument, I may not be the best judge of guitar strings other than my own personal preference, but maybe that would make me more objective than some of the more experienced players.

In any event, Thanks for all of the input. I'll post more when the guitar comes and I actually have a chance to play it.

In the meantime, any comments, suggestions and questions are always welcome.

Eddue

[eddue]

I finally received my D500. Overall it is in very good condition, almost like new. Not sure how old it is, inside label say 4025 or maybe 402s? It looks like it it's hardly been played and never set up properly and came with wrong strings. I am waiting on shipment of strings to come in to do a proper setup. The neck seems very straight except for the last 4 frets on the extended fingerboard tapered slightly inward. This is my first experience with Gitanes so I can't say if this is normal but but shouldn't have a major effect on playability. The bridge seems too low with barely any taper from bridge to tailpiece. Very deep slots cut in the nut but since this guitar has a zero fret it may be just meant to serve as a string guide rather than a traditional nut. Both E strings touch the headstock between tuning pegs and nut.

Does any of this seem typical of the D500 when new?

I'll know more once the correct strings arrive and I am able to judge things as they should be, but I am thinking I will need a higher bridge at the least and possibly a new tailpiece and tuners. Not sure how the nut will work?

Can anyone share anything about getting a new D500 with similar issues?

Eddue

[Stackabones]

Yeah, that sounds about right. You may need to tweak it to your preferences or perhaps tweak it to what is perceived as GJ gitbox preferences (check djangobooks for that info in detail).

Don't worry about the nut too much. The zero fret is takin' care of business.

I didn't change anything out on mine. It's stock, though I added a Schatten so I could plug in.

Probably 4025. Mine is 2501. Don't think they use letters.

Congrats! Get djammin'!

[eddue]

Thanks!

Got it for a good price.

I was wondering about the neck angle (E strings rubbing on wood) and the low bridge and afterlength angle. Most of the guitars I have seen that use a separate tailpiece usually have taller bridges, like archtops. I guess it may be typical for a D500.

By the way, I like the wider neck but even though it has about the same string length as a Gibson or Epiphone type of guitars, it feels a lot shorter because of where the neck joins the body. I will have to get used to that.

[HotClubBrampton]

Saw your post on Djangobooks.forum too. The D500 is a fantastic guitar. The price might be a reason to think that something is wrong with it, but usually its not.
I have heard it against luthier guitars and expensive brands, it stands out for its loud, autoritative sound. What I read on your post are not issues, IMHO.
Enjoy your guitar, play with string brands, grab some wegen or jazzIII or bigStubby picks, shim the bridge up to your content, but overall develop the right hand technique for "la pompe". Guaranteed, that will keep u busy a good couple of years
(btw, high action is recommended for louder volume/ my current bridge has 1.5mm of shims under each leg - Django used coins, picks or even a matchbox)
Cheers!

[frogeye]

Originally Posted by eddue

I was wondering about the neck angle (E strings rubbing on wood) and the low bridge and afterlength angle. Most of the guitars I have seen that use a separate tailpiece usually have taller bridges, like archtops. I guess it may be typical for a D500.

• Regarding E string rubbing. I assume that the rubbing is at the headstock between nut and tuning peg. This is quite common with slotted headstock Selmer style guitars and no reason for concern. I was able to address it on my guitar as follows: When putting on new strings I have both E strings winding "inbound" from the little hole in the tuning peg towards the center of the headstock while all 4 other strings I have winding outwards towards the edge of the headstock. I don't know how to describe it better but after trying for a little while I now know the amount of windings I have to use for the E strings to have them clearing the headstock.
• Low Bridge Concern: Bridge height is significantly lower than on an archtop and measuring under 2 cm at the D-string is quite common for Selmer style guitars. Please measure and post. I wouldn't be worried about this however.
• Low string angle at bridge. Same as above, the top is made from thinner wood and the bracing is less sturdy so it won't take too much pressure any way. I'll take some photo's from my guitar tomorrow and post so that you can compare.

[frogeye]

Here are 2 pics showing bridge and string angle on my Dell Arte Gypsy guitar.