Trying to choose next guitar...

Retroman1969 · #1 02-04-2011, 07:47 PM

The only guitar I currently own is a Classic 50s Strat, which I love, but I'm getting the bug to buy another guitar.
I'm a bargain-hunter, and on a bit of a budget, so I'm looking at used.

Trying to decide:
The two that have caught my interest locally are...
Epiphone Emperor II, Joe Pass
$320 on Craigslist.

Have always wanted at least one archtop hollowbody to get those big resonant classic jazz tones, and they are kind-of the poster child of Jazz Guitar. This particular one has a Bigsby, which is kind of cool.

Fender MIM Standard Telecaster
$249 at the local Guitar Center.

Fender won me over early on, and I'm just a Fender nut. Sold my Tele last year and kind of miss it. This one is a bit beat up while mine was mint, but I don't mind. On a Tele, it gives it character.

I'm snowed in at the moment, but I've contacted the sellers and when the weather clears up later this week, will be going to try out both of them.

(sorry for bad pics, but just got them off of their respective web page ads)

Final Note: I could buy both (and don't think I haven't been considering it), but I just started on guitar last summer and don't feel justified in owning a bunch of guitars yet until I can, you know, play one with any real competence (also an excuse to spend as little on a GAS attack as possible!

).

Any feedback on these choices is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Tim

Stackabones · #2 02-04-2011, 07:53 PM

I love Epi, so I'd lean Epi!

caravan · #3 02-04-2011, 11:05 PM

Make sure the Epi comes with a good hard shell case. Leave the Tele behind.

Retroman1969 · #4 02-05-2011, 02:41 AM

I'm leaning in that direction after giving it some thought. I can always add a Tele to the fray later (perhaps a nicer model).
I forgot to mention that the Epiphone does include an Epi hard case.

pierre richard · #5 02-05-2011, 10:58 AM

look at the ibanez line of archtop electrics...great for the money...I have two students who have them

I play a 1977 2355 (ES-175) copy through a Polytone Mini Brute...14 gauge Tomastic Flatwounds...med action...what a sound...

You will learn much here..

Time on the instrument...pierre

Retroman1969 · #6 02-05-2011, 11:43 AM

Well this one just came up on the local CL.
An Ibanez Artcore, but not sure what model, and no case with this one.
$275

How would this one compare to the Joe Pass?
Thank you!

Stackabones · #7 02-05-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroman1969

I'm leaning in that direction after giving it some thought. I can always add a Tele to the fray later (perhaps a nicer model).

Later on, check out the Squier Classic Vibe Teles. Very hip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroman1969

Well this one just came up on the local CL.
An Ibanez Artcore, but not sure what model, and no case with this one.
$275

Go Epi. Even without the HSC, I'd probably still favor the Epi over the Ibanez. That Bigsby just has some serious mojo.

studio007 · #8 02-05-2011, 03:11 PM

I picked up a few cream puffs while I was working there. Although, this could be the last x700. The serial number falls off all the sheets out there. Take a look The Last X-700... Brand New, I also have this one that Bonnie Raitt signed for me.Custom Shop Bonnie Raitt Signature Series Strat I'll have to sell these unfortunately. Maybe you guys can help date that X700. Thanks

Retroman1969 · #9 02-05-2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stackabones

Go Epi. Even without the HSC, I'd probably still favor the Epi over the Ibanez. That Bigsby just has some serious mojo.

It does, doesn't it!

mongrel · #10 02-05-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroman1969

It does, doesn't it!

Nice looking Joe Pass and the price seems really good. Tough economy out there. I bought the same Joe Pass a couple of years ago for my first foray into the fully hollow world and have fiddled with it, tweaked it, swapped pickups, installed a different trapeze and a tunamatic bridge and tried different strings. All in search of "my tone". This past summer I picked up an Epi Dot, also a blond and made in Korea, and swapped the neck humbucker for a Duncan Phat Cat and installed Chrome .12's on it. The Joe Pass has been sitting on its stand since the last string was stretched and tuned on the Dot. I much prefer its greater variety of tones and its slimmer neck and find it more comfortable to play seated. If I had it to do over, I would have gone straight into a used Dot or Sheraton which is the same thing but with bling. Locally on Craigslist, there is a '97 Samick factory Sheraton with a Gibson Classic '57 neck pickup and a Burstbucker in the bridge for $310 including hardshell Epi case. If my personal economy was better, I'd already own it and sell the Joe Pass in a heartbeat.

Retroman1969 · #11 02-05-2011, 08:30 PM

I've read mixed reviews about the JP, mostly favorable. General consensus seems to be "It's good for its price range", and best suited for straight Jazz.
I've actually tried the Dot, great guitar, probably more versatile, but it seemed best suited to Blues and Classic Rock to me. I just couldn't get clean enough tones out of it for the mellower Jazz ballads and Bossas and such.
Someone with experience might be able to get more out of it than I was capable of.

I appreciate you sharing your experience with it Mongrel, it all helps in the decision.

X-500 · #12 02-05-2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studio007

I picked up a few cream puffs while I was working there. Although, this could be the last x700. The serial number falls off all the sheets out there. Take a look The Last X-700... Brand New, I also have this one that Bonnie Raitt signed for me.Custom Shop Bonnie Raitt Signature Series Strat I'll have to sell these unfortunately. Maybe you guys can help date that X700. Thanks

That is definitely a sweet X-700!

As you probably have researched the internet for your serial number, AK700213 is the last serial number for the year 1997, but your specimen's last three is 275 (hard to see the last digit)? I can only assume it was made after 1997, but not long after as they discontinued the X-700 shortly after 1997 - sadly.

The best person to ask would be Hans Moust, author of "The Guild Guitar Book" at Guitars Galore. You can join Letstalkguild.com and post your question on the "archtops" forum too. He checks in on that forum regularly.

Retroman1969 · #13 02-10-2011, 10:12 PM

Finally, the snow cleared up enough to go check out that Epi Joe Pass. I was disappointed that it was in such bad condition that it was mostly unplayable. Light strings that were so rusty the look and feel like they were pulled up from the Titanic on the last expedition; Bridge wobbled a bit; Something rattling inside; G,B, and high E strings were practically resting on the frets; Whole thing filthy and gummed up. Seller said the reason the action was messed up was that the bridge was slipping because it wasn't attached to the body... Those are supposed to be glued to the body...right? I tuned it as best I could and tried to play it. It had a decent acoustic sound and the pups sounded good plugged in (under the circumstances) and all pots worked. Selector switch is broken off.
Told him I'd have to think about it and get back with him this weekend.
These issues can be dealt with certainly, but not sure it's worth messing with even for $320.
What do you guys think?

mr. beaumont · #14 02-10-2011, 10:31 PM

Seller's either a fool or taking you for one-- the bridge should absolutely never be glued down. Never.
Run, don't walk away. My guess is that pain in the ass aftermarket bigsby was installed poorly, and there's not enough downforce on the bridge to keep it in place.

Retroman1969 · #15 02-10-2011, 10:49 PM

He didn't say that it should be glued down, but that it had a tendency to slip over time. Certainly it shouldn't be slipping, which might well be associated with the Bigsby. I don't really want to buy it and figure out what the problem is.
It's a shame. It shows the potential to be a really sweet sounding guitar properly strung and set up. But this one has obviously had a hard life after which it must have been put away and neglected for a long time.

NiAg · #16 02-10-2011, 11:12 PM

Actually that Bigs will generally put more downward pressure on the bridge than a stock tailpiece.

>>> supposed to be glued to the body...right?

No, the bridge base on an archtop (even before Lloyd Loar) typically rests on the top, held in place by string tension.

BUT, especially when used with a Bigsby, many pros have opted to help the bridge base to stay in place through various means. If you actually buy the guitar, and truly find that the bridge base moves when you play, then we can walk through several simple and effective ways to keep it in place without goofing up the sound.

>>> don't really want to buy it and figure out what the problem is

Well that's that then.

As is, it is a $200 guitar that needs some serious de-lousing. Of course after the time and $$$ to clean it up and sort out any minor problems, it can be a quite a good guitar.

Somewhat off-topic: I see that the new Joe Pass guitars (as well as the Epi Swingster version of the same box) now have linings - the kerfed strips on the inside of the body seams. While there are surely thousands of the Emperor II, Joe Pass out there - and none of them spontaneously burst at the body seams, it is nice to see this structural change to a more traditional construction.

hurricanebob · #17 02-10-2011, 11:39 PM

I'm going to go a little against the grain here, at the risk of being snobbish: buy up. If you can afford the Tele and the JP, then buy neither, save another $500-700 and get a guitar that you'll love: could be a Guild Starfire, a used Eastman, maybe a Heritage, who knows?

I've played the JP, the Ibanes Artcores, and the Epiphones, and I've never been impressed by any of them. This is not to say there aren't great ones out there....but spending more on a single good guitar will give you more satisfaction than two mediocre ones.

Retroman1969 · #18 02-11-2011, 04:35 AM

Good advice, thanks!
My only experience is with solid body guitars, as you can probably tell.
I think you're right, that if I went for it, it could only be at a greatly reduced price.
People are funny. If I was selling the guitar (and I have sold a few) I would have at least cleaned it up, put cheap new strings on it, and TUNED it. (seriously, the strings were from a half step to a whole step and a half off... And they looked and felt like they had barnacles on them anyway). I would naturally assume that potential buyers would want to play it before wanting to make the buying decision.

sdr · #19 02-14-2011, 05:42 PM

If you have a Strat and you want a Tele, that's really close to GAS for the sake of GAS. Keep looking for a decent used archtop. Then you'll have two guitars that are completely different. There will always be a Tele for sale when you decide to become a "collector".

Retroman1969 · #20 02-15-2011, 02:11 PM

You're right, and I've already decided against a Tele for the time being. I get plenty of satisfaction from my Strats, and want something completely different like an archtop to get a different feel and sound.

As for the Epi mentioned above, the seller texted me a few hours ago asking if I was still interested in it. I'm debating if I should tell him 'no', or offer him like $250 or something for it. Still be hard to find one in any kind of functional condition for near that price.