Getting a jazz tone from my Strat

[dyross]

Hey All,

A quick question (at least quick to ask) for all you gear-heads:

I love my Strat and want to play it in a jazz context, but the tone is not quite warm and full enough for my tastes in the context. I'm looking at dirtying up the tone a little and maybe adding some delay/chorus a la Mike Stern. Any thoughts? Obviously this is a personal preference sort of thing, but I wanted to hear about others' experiences doing this type of thing.


Thanks,

Dave

[spiral]

Worth reading?
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...azz-strat.html

[dyross]

Well gosh - I try to obey the "Search before you post" mantra, but figured this question would be fairly unique. Guess not

Thanks for the tip - I'll check that thread out.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by dyross

Well gosh - I try to obey the "Search before you post" mantra, but figured this question would be fairly unique. Guess not

Thanks for the tip - I'll check that thread out.

No worries. I just happened to remember seeing it awhile ago. No implication intended. This shouldn't prevent you from expanding this thread though. There was another similar discussion but it was a branch of another thread i couldn't find.

[dyross]

Alrighty - that thread seemed more along the lines of "does anyone do this?"

My question is more "I want to do this, but I'm not quite satisfied - what should I try?"

The one suggestion I saw was using heavier flatwound strings. I currently have a 10 set (round wound) and have considered switching to 11's, but not flatwound. Part of the reason I want to play on my strat is because I love players who play jazz lines in a rock / blues idiom and vice versa.

So more specifically, what might be some suggested gear (pedals, preferably, as I am happy with my Blues Jr.) to improve my strat tone for a jazz setting?

Thanks!

[JakeAcci]

Well, "jazz tone" can mean a lot of things.

Here's me playing a reissue american strat, no mods, 10 guage strings (round G string) through a polytone minibrute - Trio clips

I go for a clean sound. Neither the guitar nor the string gauge was a choice based on tone, long story not worth getting into here.

Here's the thing though - to play a solid body (especially one with thinner strings) and get a warm sound, you have to play it a little lighter than you might play another guitar. Pluck it too hard and it starts sounding like a duck!

Edit: Sorry, I see my post is not exactly the input you were looking for. Still relevant, I hope.

[dyross]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

Well, "jazz tone" can mean a lot of things.

Here's me playing a reissue american strat, no mods, 10 guage strings (round G string) through a polytone minibrute - Trio clips

I go for a clean sound. Neither the guitar nor the string gauge was a choice based on tone, long story not worth getting into here.

Here's the thing though - to play a solid body (especially one with thinner strings) and get a warm sound, you have to play it a little lighter than you might play another guitar. Pluck it too hard and it starts sounding like a duck!

Edit: Sorry, I see my post is not exactly the input you were looking for. Still relevant, I hope.

Very helpful, Jake. And great playing! I'm digging the tone - good point about playing softer. I remember reading an interview with Jim Hall about the same thing. I know he plays big jazz boxes, but I'm sure the same principles apply.

[JakeAcci]

Hey thanks man. Dynamics are so important, and solid body guitars are very sensitive. Thin strings gives you a pretty low cap on how hard you can really dig in.

I just got an archop (my first) recently and I was just thinking about how there's actually much less dynamic range with that guitar, for some reason. I like how, on the strat, you can play pretty quiet and smooth (takes control and practice though) but if you want, you can get some notes to really POP.

[dyross]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

Hey thanks man. Dynamics are so important, and solid body guitars are very sensitive. Thin strings gives you a pretty low cap on how hard you can really dig in.

I just got an archop (my first) recently and I was just thinking about how there's actually much less dynamic range with that guitar, for some reason. I like how, on the strat, you can play pretty quiet and smooth (takes control and practice though) but if you want, you can get some notes to really POP.

When I first started playing jazz, I used an Epiphone Joe Pass, which is a good entry level archtop. It had a pretty nice sound - but playing it for the first time after being a strat guy for 2 years was not so fun. I just have so much more control and can get so much more expression out of my strat. And I like to bend the blues

[oldane]

Originally Posted by dyross

I'm looking at dirtying up the tone a little and maybe adding some delay/chorus a la Mike Stern.

Well, what you want may not be the archetypical jazz tone (that would be a Gibson 175 with medium flatwounds played through a Gibson tube amp from the 1950s). But "dirty", "delay", chorus" - that makes me suggest trying out a multieffect unit like say the Boss ME-70 which is affordable and sounds pretty good. I do like the sound of my own amp better than the COSM amp simulations of the Boss ME-70, but the COSM section can be bypassed by turning a control. But actually, with COSM simulations, you can get away with feeding the output of the ME-70 directly into a mixer/PA system, thereby omitting your own amp. It will never sound like a Twin Reverb, but in a pinch .... The ME-70 is easy and intuitive to use - no multilevel menus, just "analog" controls like a stompbox.

[dyross]

Originally Posted by oldane

Well, what you want may not be the archetypical jazz tone (that would be a Gibson 175 with medium flatwounds played through a Gibson tube amp from the 1950s). But "dirty", "delay", chorus" - that makes me suggest trying out a multieffect unit like say the Boss ME-70 which is affordable and sounds pretty good. I do like the sound of my own amp better than the COSM amp simulations of the Boss ME-70, but the COSM section can be bypassed by turning a control. But actually, with COSM simulations, you can get away with feeding the output of the ME-70 directly into a mixer/PA system, thereby omitting your own amp. It will never sound like a Twin Reverb, but in a pinch .... The ME-70 is easy and intuitive to use - no multilevel menus, just "analog" controls like a stompbox.

Yeah, I'm definitely not going for the classic tone, or else I would play an archtop. More of a Mike Stern / John Abercrombie type thing.

[robertm2000]

I've been trying to get a "jazz tone" with a couple of Strat style guitars. What's worked best is changing pickups - the Seymour Duncan Cool Rails have a fuller tone than regular single coil pickups and with a good amp, have a mellow sound I really like. I'm also going to try a Jason Lollar Charlie Christian style pickup is an old Tele style guitar I have.

And a good amp of course! A Roland MicroCube for practice, and very occasional gigs jacked into the PA system, works surprisingly well. I also just picked up a small Fender Champ that sounds good.

Pickups can be an important element in tonal production, and a fairly easy way to come closer to ideal tone, whatever guitar you use.

[kris]

I've tiried to play jazz on my strat with big modifications 25 years ago.
I changed singl coil pick ups for humbuckers.
I used jazz strings/12'/.Sound was OK.
After on year I sold it.
I like jazz guitar with big body.

[pingu]

Two approaches
A
bluesey bendy singing/stinging vocal type sounds
smaller roundwound strings on a solid or semi solid guitar with low action
where when you dig in you get pop and slap with a long sustain
(with various amounts of squash from the tube amp)

and
Thick full type clean sounds and good intonation on complex chords
you get with thick flatwound strings on a hollow body with higher action
where when you dig in you get a louder more authoritative note production . and a short decay on the note like a stand up bass
(usually with a clean amp setting)

Its a trade-off between these extremes

Ed Bickert is an interesting one , down the middle , thick tape wound strings medium action on a tele with a humbucker ........

absolutely beautiful player and sound but he doesn't dig in much .......

Maybe try thicker strings and a high action (SRV bent with 13's)
and possibly block up the trem on your strat

have fun with all the experimentation
I ended up with a hollow body stuffed with foam
and thick tape-wounds and a high action ..... love it