Archtop Acoustic To Electric

[glasstube]

Hey i have an Archtop not even sure what year/model it is possibly a 60's Silvertone but it has been re-stained

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But what i want to do is turn this into an electic beacuse i wanna make it a jazz guitar

Also the action on this is incredibly high if anyone has any ideas to make it like an es-135 action, please let me know... I am willing to do some serious work to this guitar so any input is necessary.
Thanks
-Tubes

vvMore Photos In The 6th Post Belowvv

[mr. beaumont]

Well, if the bridge is cranked all the way down and the action is still really high, the guitar needs it's neck reset. That'll likely cost more than the guitar is worth--just being honest.

If the bridge isn't cranked down, see how low you can get it without string buzz.

As for electrifying, a guitar like that would sound very cool with a P90, or a floating DeArmond-style pickup, which won't be cheap--but it'll allow you to electrify the guitar with a minimum of modification to the guitar.

[cjm]

How high is incredibly high? Do you have a measurement? Or, what are you comparing action height to?

Is the neck reasonably straight?

What happens when you lower the action with the bridge adjustment wheels?

One of the problems with some of these old archtops is that there is no adjustable truss rod, and in some cases, no truss rod at all. In some cases it can be impossible (or at least economically impracticable) to get a low action.

The easiest (not the cheapest) way to turn an acoustic archtop into an electric is with the Dearmond "monkey on a stick" single coil pickup with a string clamp. These mount with a clamp across the strings between the bridge and the tailpiece -- a rod suspends the pickup under the strings between the bridge and the end of the fingerboard.

These are long out of production but you can find them used for $400~$600 sometimes and have the advantage being quickly moved to another guitar. As to tone..the Dearmond's were used by a lot of jazzers during the 1940s and 1950s and many of the recordings from that era were made with them.

But typically these were used by bebop players on high end acoustic D'Angelicos, Epiphones and Gibsons. Don't know what to expect from a 60's Silvertone because I've never played one.

[caravan]

Hello, this is my first post!!! Does the neck joint show signs of pulling apart from the body? It will need to have it repaired first. As for a pickup, if you want a humbucker you're going to have to cut a hole in the top. Although this isn't very difficult, you need to see if the braces are in the way. As cjm said, these Silvertone/Harmony guitars don't hold a very high value... especially if it does not have a cut away. Therefore, I would be afraid to modify it to turn it into something that's enjoyable to play.

[mongrel]

That looks like a member of the Harmony family, maybe late 1950's. I've got one of its cousins-- an S.S. Stewart with a puke-green and brown sunburst finish and same bridge and trapeze tailpiece as yours and probably, although you don't have a rear side photo, the same open tuning keys. I was given mine for free by the owner of a local pawn shop who got it in a truckload of household items from an estate. It had nasty high action when he got it so he re-set the neck himself and it is low enough for me for normal playing. I was going to electrify mine but never got around to it but still might do it. If the frets are decent and the fretboard relatively straight, some folks use them just for slide playing where you want a very high action. Measure the distance from the guitar top to the bottom of the strings and you may find that there is enough room for a slim pickup so you wouldn't have to cut the top. If you have to cut the top, that's still no big deal. I may end up sanding all the finish off mine since it is so ugly and end up with it looking like your's. And you may get lucky and find a guy who will reset your neck for not much money. I don't think it is that big of a deal. Just steam the glue loose, shave off or shim what needs shaving or shimming, and re-glue, clamp and let dry.

[glasstube]

OKay i got some more pictures,

The neck on the guitar is reasonably straight and no, there is no adjustable truss rod.

But heres were the neck meets the body:
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It slighty comes off the body toward the back but i dont know if thats a bad thing or a good thing.

Heres the frets:
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these are all in that same shape.. good working order


This the action from the bottom of the fingerboard:
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I don't have a measurement of it but that shows were it is
but towards the lower frets near the nut the action is fine.

Heres the Bridge:
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Thats as low as i can get with out the buzz and thats the lowest it goes.

If you need anymore pictures let me know what areas i should cover.
thank you all
-tubes

[blackwingchai]

very nice old guitar, love it, i recommend a floating pickup for minimal boring to the body, my af84 is not a electric, but the first owner put a george l pickup on the neck as a floating pick up. add a pick guard to attache the electronic.

[rpguitar]

Looks like the small gap between neck heel and body indicates the need for a reset, since you can predict how the neck angle would improve if the heel was flush.

But also, you should try removing the knurled bridge height adjusters, and just have the saddle resting flush with the wood of the base piece. That will get the action just a bit lower, maybe close enough to be practical.

[cjm]

Given how high the strings appear to be at the end of the fretboard, and given how far the neck separation has gone already, I honestly doubt you can salvage this guitar without a neck reset.

And before that, here is what you have to think about: Given that the neck has no adjustable truss rod, can you ever depend on it not getting a big "wow" in it as the headstock bends upwards under string tension?

A skilled luthier might be able to get away with a new, custom planed fingerboard to compensate for this tendency, but then you have the cost for a new fingerboard and new frets on top of the cost for a neck reset.

After that, you still have the cost of whatever pickup you decide to go with.

All this can easily eat up a thousand dollars or more. Depending on the luthier, probably quite a lot more. And in terms of the market value after everything is done, it will be that of an older Harmony or Silvertone...you won't get the money back if you decide to trade up.

On the other hand, you can buy a decent -- and better -- entry level electric archtop for $400~$700...

I don't mean to sound harsh or make you feel bad about this guitar, but your goal is to have a playable jazz box, and this guitar looks to be a wall hanger rather than a player.

That's my opinion, anyway. I hope the opinion is taken in the spirit it is offered: I really like to see people get into jazz and spread the music around while having fun.

[oldane]

What is a too high action is relative. The action on your guitar is actually lower than on my two archtops, I use for acoustic rhythm playing. That said, you should obviously be able to lower the action more than what is posiible on your instrument. And the photo of the neck heel shows that the guitar indeed has a neck set problem. The neck may well wiggle in the joint, if you removed the strings. As others have said, I very much doubt a neck reset is worth it with this - from the onset inexpensive - plywood guitar. The only reason to do it should be if the guitar has a great emotional value for you.

IF you do intend to put a pickup on it, don't just cut a hole in the top without checking internal braces. It is fairly often seen that people cut the braces that way - after which the top will sag or collapse, now lacking the support of the braces. The wisest thing to do is to get an archtop pickguard (for example a "long" L5 type pickguard for a non cutaway body from Allparts) and mount a floating pickup, controls and jack on that, so you don't need to cut holes in the guitar. But personally, I wouldn't do it with this instrument.

[Elias Graves]

Rather than resetting the neck, a lot of folks just use em for slide.
I took the opportunity with mine to learn how to reset a neck. Tricky, but it works now and all it cost me was some labor and a little glue.

EG

[hot ford coupe]

I tend to agree with cjm on that guitar. I've had some experience in that area where it cost way too much to repair considering the guitar's worth. A wall hanging although it sounds cruel is not a bad consideration since the guitar is not a major collectible. It's better to spend the money on something like a good Ibanez guitar or something similar. Your playing experience will be a lot more enjoyable.

[cjm]

But, if after everything is taken into consideration, you remain determined to try and salvage this guitar, take a look at this thread on another forum:

harmony archtop neck straightening ? - The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Basically, what you will do is run a heavy screw (after drilling and preferably countersinking the hole) through the neck heel into the block inside the sound box.

Next, you will remove some wood from the underside of the bridge saddle and the top of the base to allow the action to be set lower.

This use of a screw to "reset" the neck would be considered a horrible butcher job on a high quality guitar...but honestly, it isn't going to devalue this guitar any further in the condition it appears to be in from the photos you posted.

And sometimes it works. (I've actually seen a couple of old guitars brought back from the dead this way.) It also has the virtue of being something you can do yourself without spending more than a few dollars for the drill bit, countersink, and a big honkin' wood screw.

If that works, great! Add a pickup and play it to your heart's content.

If not, you're out ten bucks and you still have a cool wall hanger to look at while you play a new (or at least newer) Asian built archtop you purchased with the money you saved by not spending yourself broke at your local luthier's trying to salvage this guitar.

[glasstube]

Okay you see the thing is this guitar was given to me.

i just wanted it to be playable, it already is.

and it would also be a great slide guitar and now i would love to make this into a slide guitar due to the input and unnecessary amount of money this would cost me. also i have a couple jazz guitars already and i would like to make this more than a wall hanger because this style of guitar is what i see in my dreams.

so i am going to take cjm's advice.

get the pickguard and floating pickup and turn it into something like this.
YouTube - Vintage 1960's KAY Archtop Electric Guitar AIRLINE Harmony

any advice/ideas/input now that i am on the path to a blues slide guitar?

[cjm]

Originally Posted by glasstube

any advice/ideas/input now that i am on the path to a blues slide guitar?

Learn to play The Steel Guitar Rag.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by glasstube

any advice/ideas/input now that i am on the path to a blues slide guitar?

Don't rule out flatwounds.

I've discovered on some floating pickups, particularly vintage ones, the G string sounds unbalanced with nickel round wounds...THis was the case on my DeArmond-equipped Kay, which had heavy gauge roundwounds on it for about 25 minutes.

A guitar tech-head friend has confirmed this as being his experience as well. Food for thought. I'll have to ask him why.