Gibson ES-175 or Not?

[jason30]

Hi Fellow Jazzers!

I need some helping making the right decision.. For years, i had this thing in my mind going on that if i could get my hands on a good ES-335, then that would be my last big purchase that would complete all my jazz needs.. So i got one about 3 years ago.. Needless to say, tonally it didn't hit "the spot". And actually it became my least favorite to play out of everything that i own. In between then and now, I've also added to my collection, a couple of Fenders and a ES-137.

My taste has changed a little and now I'm looking for a Gibson ES-175. I like a jazz box with a big fat full tone and my question is, do i need this ES-175 in relation to what i already have? Is it a different animal from the 335 and the 137? Is it worth the $3,499 that they are asking for it??

Help please!!

[Stackabones]

I don't have an ES-175, but I just got a Epi Zephyr Regent (which is based on the earlier one-pup ES-175 models or like the later Herb Ellis ES-165). It's a different beast than my Epi Sheraton II (which is like your 335), and I have another thinline archtop (Washburn HB15, like a Gibby ES-125T) -- again no comparison to the Epi ZR.

None of these were anywhere near the coin you're talking about, so I can't really advise you on whether it's worth it or not. I considered the Epi ES-175 till the ZR popped up.

[Jazzpunk]

I love the tone of a good 175. Buy used if possible!

[Eddie Lang]

do i need this ES-175 in relation to what i already have?

Define "need".

Actually, there is an equation to determine how many guitars you "need". It goes as follows:

One needs x + 1 guitars
(x being the number of guitars you already own.)

[msr13]

If you love it and can afford it, go for it. However, I've seen several new ones for under $3k in Mom and Pop shops in the last year. If you PM me, I will give you the names of the shops.

[bass2man]

Cant go wrong with a 175...I have a 1977 Es-175,,,great sounding jazzbox. Bought it for $1500 a few years ago.

I also have a 16' Triggs with Tom Holmes HB..less woody sounding and a little more sweet mids/modern sounding...paid <$2K

I also have a 17' Triggs archtop with Floating Kent Armstrong..more acoustic sound obviously, but sounds great....less than $2K.

I just bought a 1995 Gibson custom shop Tal Farlow for $2800....17' inch with a brighter voice than the 175...great guitar.

I have also played Heritage 575....wonderful guitars for half of what you would pay for a Gibson..

My point is that there are great guitar deals out there if you look around..Check out archtop.com, Elderly, George Gruhn, buffalo brothers, and of course eBay...

I never buy a new guitar...they are like cars..lose 1/3 of their value as soon as you walk out the store..

[cjm]

I'm a big fan of laminate hollowbody archtops like the ES-175.

That said, I've come to the conclusion that an actual Gibson ES-175 is not necessarily worth the premium you'll pay for one.

The formula is simple: plywood box, decent neck, good fretwork, good pickups, pots and wiring.

If it doesn't have to say Gibson on the headstock, there are a lot of guitars built in Asia that cost a small fraction of what you will pay for the ES-175.

Off the rack, they follow a portion of the ES-175 formula. Usually a plywood box and decent neck...but cheap pickups, cheap pots and wiring. Often poor fretwork. Usually a bridge that will tempt you to use it as kindling in your fireplace.

BUT, and it is a BIG "BUT," if you have a good business relationship with a competent local luthier, you can probably have upgrades done to the inexpensive Asian hollowbody archtop that will make it functionally equivalent to an ES-175...and do it all, including the purchase price of the guitar, for less than $1,000 -- as opposed to the $3,000~$5,000 good used Gibson ES-175s command.

However, it still ain't gonna' say Gibson on the headstock, and if that matters to you, you may as well skip all the intermediate purchases, and go straight for what it's going to take to make you happy. You WILL NOT get your money back by selling the customized/modified Asian built guitar if you decide to sell it later on.

If that doesn't matter to you...Stackabones mentioned the HB-15. I have the HB-15C -- the cutaway model. I like the neck and the 25.5 inch scale (the ES-175 is built with a 24.75 inch scale). I had the frets leveled and crowned, a new compensated rosewood bridge fitted, and then I recently had the cheap fingerboard mounted humbucker, pots and wiring removed and tossed in the trash. I had my luthier friend hack a big hole in the top and drill three screw holes and install a Lollar Charlie Christian single coil pickup and some decent pots and caps. A LOT less than $1,000 total, including the guitar's purchase price, and with a distinctly "vintage Gibson" vibe.

Not that I'm trying to talk you, or anyone else, out of buying an ES-175 because they are good guitars and if only an ES-175 will do, then nothing else is going to satisfy. Just be aware that you can get 99.999% of what an ES-175 offers in any purely objective analysis for a lot less.

[rschwa9966]

I recently bought a 1988 ES-175 for $2,600. It's 80% as good as the 1950s-early '60s versions for $5,000 and 100% better than the new ones for $3,500.
Bottom line, don't buy one without playing one. There is a wide range in quality.
A good ES-175 is the quintesential jazz box. Warm, dark and creamy.

[NiAg]

Very much in agreement with "cjm" above.

The 175 is a classic sound and I'm sure it would work really well for you.

But man, that is some stiff bonus you pay for the Gibson name. Plus with guitars from the last few years you get goopy soft finish, and the often excessively rounded fret ends as they dip down toward the binding.

None of these are show stoppers, and many players LOVE their Gibsons.

And as sort of mentioned, if you buy used in a private sale, you will very likely get you cost back should you change your mind and decide to sell it.

[Drifter]

You could consider a used Guild X-170 or X-500... Much cheaper and I'm sure you would love it.

[Eddie Lang]

A 175. I'd go for one with one P-90 in the neck position from between 1949-1956. For something new or recent, I'd opt for a "knock-off" instead of a Gibson, something like the ones made by Heritage or The Loar (and a few worthy others).

[life_with_a_song]

I don't know what to tell you, other than after 29 years of playing and having owned about seventy guitars over that period, my only advice is that if you feel the itch, you have to scratch it in order to feel better (and really have the answer). I've owned a few guitars for sometimes as little as a week (after having it shipped through an online private sale or an Ebay win) before realizing that all of the fuss or "tradition" or "buzz" or idealization or whatever I brought to it didn't translate into what I was really after. But nothing substitutes for having that guitar in your home, through your rig, set up to your style and feel. I once got swept into buying a very nice, near-mint-condition ES-135 LE after spending five minutes with it at the pawn shop--this after playing them years ago when they first came out (the one with the two humbuckers) and determining that they were not my thing (for jazz). I admit, I got caught up in the name and the nostalgia of the whole experience--you know--finding that supposed "one" hanging in the store waiting for you. Not again. The guitars that I truly love have finally managed to find me--and I'm listening to that voice now for the first time in my life that says something like ". . .these are it--you don't need to sell them. Keep them and enjoy them!"

By the way, I scratched that same ES-175 itch with a Heritage H575. Two of them, in fact.

Have fun looking around!

[jason30]

Thanks guys for all the advice! I beginning to feel like i need to wait on the 175 and possibly look at some other models that will do most of what the Gibson will do for a lot less. All the advice has really been helpful!

Thanks

[docbop]

I love my 335 one most versatile guitar around, but like all Gibson every generation is different. I had a '61 175 and it never clicked with me and I sold it a few years after I got it. 175 there are a lot of variation over the years with them. There are ones with baseball bat necks ones like my 61 with a thin neck. From what I understand even the neck woods have changed back and forth. Like 335's there are one piece necks and multi-piece necks. Then Gibson quality over past decade or is inconsistent. Bottom line you need to check out whatever you buy they are all different.

[gianluca]

I had a gibson es347.
fantastic guitar but my taste had changed.
I found a guy who wnated sell its 1980's es175.
he agreed to trade it with my 347+ 400,00eur.
it was a nice day for me...

[kris]

For that money you can find hand made jazz box...:-)

[NiAg]

[Drifter] >>>consider a used Guild X-170 or X-500

Second vote for that.

Although as more of a 175 peer, I would definitely look at the X-150 (lots available used), and as the almost un-find-able, unloved, but fantastic +++ X-180 out of Corona, before FMIC killed the line.

They both are maple topped boxes and both superb values and even superber-er guitars. Single PU 150's are out there too if you want to go more purist.

On the 170: I'd love one, but the most typical configuration is with the economy-class seating silly-narrow 1 10/16 nut.

[mangotango]

I love the tone of a good 175. Buy used if possible!

I sat opposite that very guitar, about 3 feet away, when I had a lesson from Mr. K. It had a coin supporting the bridge, no truss rod cover, looked well travelled...and in his hands sound amazing.

Also, I once tried my bassist's brother early '60's 175. It had a big crack in the rim, it was strung with skinny roundwounds....and when I played it, it was by far and away the best guitar I had played up to that point - it made me play better than I could on my Epi Joe Pass and try stuff that I wouldn't normally do.

Why wouldn't you want one?

[cjm]

Why wouldn't you want one?

Setting cost aside, there is the short scale length.

That doesn't matter to a lot of people, and for others 24.75 inches is close to ideal.

But a guitar is like a pair of gloves in that it has to fit. It doesn't matter how it sounds, or what it looks like, or what other people may think about it...If it doesn't fit, then it ain't right.

That's one of the things that should be carefully considered before setting one's mind on a model. Because after the excitement wears off, you have to play the thing.

[pierre richard]

I have a 1977 Ibanez 2355 (ES-175) copy and would buy another,as if I needed another...

Aria and Yamaha are two others I wold recommend for a lot less money...it's not the size of the organ but the musician behind it...

Time on the instrument..pierre

[AZanshin]

Setting cost aside, there is the short scale length.

That doesn't matter to a lot of people, and for others 24.75 inches is close to ideal.

But a guitar is like a pair of gloves in that it has to fit. It doesn't matter how it sounds, or what it looks like, or what other people may think about it...If it doesn't fit, then it ain't right.

That's one of the things that should be carefully considered before setting one's mind on a model. Because after the excitement wears off, you have to play the thing.

Indeed THE 24.75 scale is the truth

[kris]

Gibson Es-175 is a classic in jazz guitar!!
Every fameous jazz player had contact with this instrument.

[Stackabones]

Indeed THE 24.75 scale is the truth

Agreed!

[cjm]

But for those who insist on playing "vintage" (old, 2nd hand) Gibsons, but who cannot adapt easily to the short scale of the ES-175, there is the post WWII ES-150 and the ES-350. Both have 25.5 inch scales.

The ES-150 I'm talking about is NOT the guitar Charlie Christian made famous. After the war, the model became a laminated guitar and has a single P90 pickup like the first ES-175s. It does not however, have a cutaway.

The original ES-350 is cutaway, full depth, and has a 25.5 inch scale. Very different guitar than the later ES-350T (thinline and a 23.75 inch scale like the Byrdland).

Realistically, there isn't much difference in the sound of these two models and the P90 equipped ES-175s.

[ALIOLI49]

I've been playing Gibson (J-45, L-5, Les Paul Studio) since the mid sixties as well as other names like Yamaha, Ibanez, etc... and I have liked them all, each has been a friend on the road and I have dragged the J-45 around the world, literally. Thing is, when it comes to jazz for me, the heart and soul of meeting the need finds its source in my Mesa Road King 2x12 amp.. I play a Gibson Les Paul Studio that talks to the audience in rhythm and tone and an Ibanez Artcore (mimics an ES-175) I had Mike Lull of Bellevue, Washington rebuild. It was a cheap guitar that now sounds rich and smooth with deep sustains thanks to the Mesa technology and a glass like action. The Gibson Les Paul was a bit spendy; the Ibanez Artcore less so and yet with the Mesa Amp underscoring their sound they work together seamlessly. So think about your amplifier(s) as much as your instruments and you will be pleased with the outcome. CRB

Thanks guys for all the advice! I beginning to feel like i need to wait on the 175 and possibly look at some other models that will do most of what the Gibson will do for a lot less. All the advice has really been helpful!

Thanks