A Few Questions...

1949GibsonL5 · #1 12-30-2010, 08:47 AM

Okay, so guys, you all know what kind of guitar I have from my name.
Anybody with a comparable guitar, has the top on your guitar softened? On mine, it's to the point where I can make a sizable dent with my fingernail, not into the varnish, but into the wood. Does anyone know where to get a good strap that has the hook under the fingerboard? It's my favorite kind for this guitar and mine has frayed so much I'm afraid to use it. And also, has anyone tried having a guitar this old set up with heavier strings? Mine has 12's from when my granddad played it, and I'm afraid to go have it set up with my usual 13's or 14's, because it's had the 12's since he got it in '51.
Thanks Guys!

cjm · #2 12-30-2010, 10:37 AM

Spruce is a soft wood. Are you certain it has gotten softer? If you're certain it has, was it perhaps moved from a dry climate to a humid climate when you inherited it? Las Vegas to New Orleans, for example?

It is easy enough to ding up spruce -- I wouldn't be pushing my thumbnail into it.

The guitar was designed for heavy strings. If the action is okay with 12s, it probably won't even need a truss rod adjustment if you go with 13s or 14s. If it does, well that's why there is an adjustable truss rod.

As to the strap -- no clue. I no longer own an L5, but when I did, I put a regular strap button on the heel. People will tell you that adding a strap button devalues the guitar, but try using that as a bargaining point when trying to buy an L5 and you will discover it doesn't.

1949GibsonL5 · #3 12-30-2010, 11:15 AM

Well, it hasn't had a big climate change in recent years, but when me Granddad moved from the Fort Worth, Texas area to Fort Smith, Arkansas, is when I suspect it started getting softer.
By the way, does anyone know where I can get it restored? The pickguard has rotted off the bracket, and I figured if I was going to get that replaced, I might as well just get a full restoration.

cjm · #4 12-30-2010, 11:24 AM

One more thing: Remember that an L5 -- 1949 or 2010 model -- has a "nitro" finish. It's not like a poly finish, which is very hard and resists deformation if you jam your thumbnail into it.

Poly finishes are on the vast majority of new guitars. It is almost like a thin, hard, shell over the wood. An Asian built poly finished guitar would naturally seem to have "harder" wood even if it has a spruce laminate top -- but in reality -- the top layer of spruce should be about as soft as the solid carved spruce of your L5 -- except for the finish.

ON Edit: Talk to Joe at http://www.archtop.com about the pickguard. He can advise you about restoration and whether or not it should be done. I've seen the work done at his shop and it's good.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #5 12-30-2010, 11:27 AM

Hey '49 welcome to the club! I have a 1948 L5 P (Premier = cut away)

Soft top -- mine isn't unusually soft, but as cjm said, spruce is a softer wood. I wouldn't let anyone walk on it in stilettos.

Heavy strings -- I've used 14s for years. These guitars are built for heavy strings.

Strap -- since I'm not planning on selling it, I haven't worried about modifying it. I put a strap button on the heel, which is common, and replaced the tailpiece button with one that has the jack plug running through the middle.

rotting pickguard -- that's also very common

Celluloid is unstable over time.

1949GibsonL5 · #6 12-30-2010, 11:38 AM

Okay I have to ask after seeing your guitar. You aren't related to a Dale Woodward are you? He had an L-5 very similar in burst pattern to yours, it was a Premier as well, and his guitar is my guitar's sister practically.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #7 12-30-2010, 11:57 AM

Nope! I bought this guitar in 1980, when I was living in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I bought it through consignment at a music store but I was told the owner was the original owner and this guitar had been stored under a bed for years. It still had the original strings on it, I suspected.

I bet there are lots of old archtops out there, in closets and attics. Maybe we need a late night commercial like those "sell your old gold jewelry for cash" ads.

Eddie Lang · #8 12-30-2010, 01:15 PM

1949GibsonL5 ,

If your pickguard is "rotting", remove it at once from your guitar. In decomposing, the celluloid releases fumes that act as a solvent and that could be a reason for the finish to get softer.

I second CJM's advise: talk to Joe Vinikow at archtop.com. And don't let just anyone work on it. I don't know where you live, but go for the best luthier you can get, one who knows about these and has experience and expertise to work on vintage guitars, even if it means going out of town or even out of State.

My guitar is not an L-5, but a 1934 L-4 and it takes 13's, no problem. Like a few others said, these were built to take heavy strings.

Finally, welcome to the forum and congrats on a very nice guitar.

fws6 · #9 12-30-2010, 01:59 PM

indeed remove at once, this is what is damaging your finish - but keep the guard in a vacuum sealed bag with the guitar

A good luthier should be able to make a new guard using the decomposed one as the template, and sometimes can even reuse the original binding on the repro guard to make it look totally authentic.

M-ster · #10 12-30-2010, 02:04 PM

That *is* a beauty, Big Daddy!

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #11 12-30-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M-ster

That *is* a beauty, Big Daddy!

And to think I earned the money working as a janitor, on a summer job.

4thstuning · #12 12-30-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie Lang

1949GibsonL5 ,

If your pickguard is "rotting", remove it at once from your guitar. In decomposing, the celluloid releases fumes that act as a solvent and that could be a reason for the finish to get softer.

Very good advice. Rotting celluloid is very destructive and unavoidable it seems.

I don't have the antiques you guys have but I do have a '93 L5CES whose pickguard started to rot in the case - I wasn't playing it much about 4 years ago when this happened. It ruined some of the gold plating on the pickups and other metal parts. Haven't experienced any finish softness yet but maybe it was discovered early enough. Anyway it was removed and the guitar was cleaned up as best I could. I never replaced the pick guard as due to the way I play I don't need it and I actually prefer the "naked" look.

NSJ · #13 12-30-2010, 03:55 PM

When I bought my Howard Roberts, I noticed that the pickup had turned blue. It was due to the pickguard breaking at some point and leaking over time. I IMMEDIATELY got rid of the pick guard and had a tech "remove" the blue oxidizing elements with some sort of solvent on the pickup.

Eventually, just for the hell of it, I had a standard pickguard put back on. Didn't really need it, as the excellent NYC based young Israeli guitarist, Gilad Heckselman (sp?) plays a HR Custom without a pickguard. But no worries.

nerobi15 · #14 12-31-2010, 05:51 AM

1. Some of the picture I want to print will have white on, and the shirt I'm printing on is blue. Will the white print even though the paper is white? (So say they eyes on a character are white, will that white print off or not)

hot ford coupe · #15 12-31-2010, 07:28 AM

The fumes from the degrading pick guard can be a real problem. Someone told me a story that some old Gretsch guitars (I forget exactly what year but I think it was in the 50's) would actually self combust in the case if the case was closed up for a long time. If you can get away without the pick guard, that's one solution but it also depends on what the bindings are made of. The 50's D'Angelicos would often come apart easily and many times had to be rebound and refinished.

oldane · #16 12-31-2010, 09:48 AM

As for the pickguard: Pickguardian Custom Pickguards

.... but there are others selling pickguards. Just Google "pickguards" and they come up.

If you have a luthier make a new pickguard, you may want him to make it in bound ebony to avoid further problems. Celluid not only "rots" with time, it can also bend and curl. Ebony is much more stable and should last the liftetime of the guitar. When I had Jim Triggs make me an archtop, he strongly advised the ebony solution.

BTW, I agree with others. The rotting pickguards must be removed NOW to avoid damage to the instrument. It should not be kept anywhere near any instrument and certainly NOT in the case. Personally, I'd throw it out. Nobody wants a crumbling pickguard - even if it's vintage.

kamlapati · #17 01-01-2011, 04:29 PM

Never noticed that my '46 or my now gone '45 or '32 had a soft finish, but then again, I don't test them with a hard push of the nail. In fact, I'm even careful when polishing and cleaning my guitars, as I find that many scratches are the result of people trying a little too hard to make them look good. My best advice: take it to a good local shop, then don't polish it any more.

Repeat best advice from above: get that pickguard off the guitar and out of the case! For good measure, keep the guitar out of the case for a while. The fumes from decaying plastics are the worst.

Ask around for local shops and luthiers. Here in the SF Bay area, there are several, but I like Gryphon Stringed Instruments.

fws6 · #18 01-02-2011, 05:06 AM

The pickguard manufacturers above all are pretty pricey (> $ 200)

Of course the authentic guard material is very expensive; but I know a guy who does excellent work so if you want a good repro guard at a more affordable price - send me a note maybe I can help out

Jeff Gu · #19 01-02-2011, 06:17 AM

I have a '47 Super 400 that my father bought new in '48... it is currently without a pickguard for the same reason... the original began to deteriorate.

Although I've currently got 12's on it, my father always used much heavier strings without any ill effects. In fact, the guitar has been to a luthier on two occasions over the years, and the truss rod hasn't needed adjustment. I wish I could say the same for all of my guitars.

The only acoustic guitar I've ever seen with wood that had softened from excessive humidity also had a very noticeable smell of moldy wood to it. It smelled like wood that has been left outdoors and rained on for a year. A good luthier can certainly tell you if the wood has actually softened or if there is a problem with how it is being stored.

I put the lighter strings on this guitar because I'm used to very light guage strings on my electrics, and thought I better get used to something heavier, but not the things dad used... those could be used to tether a rhino to the porch. However, this big archtop sounds pathetic with these light strings on it. It seems to need the heavy strings to get any projection or the beautiful tone it's able to produce.