Guitar cables discussion

[Vintage]

I've experimented with only 3 cables so far. Very cheap generic
10 ft, First Act 10-20 ft (with huge tip like Monster cables),
and Horizon.
The cheapest cable was a gift. It only lasted a few months. The
First Act last a little longer, but wasn't impressive. The Horizon cables
are okay, except how they unscrew at the end, which gets annoying
when unplugging them. They haven't messed up on me yet and it's
been nearly a whole year.

I was thinking of upgrading to something like Monster, Elixir, or Mogami.
Some opinion would be nice. The Gold Monster cables are what I'm
going for, but I'm not sure if the cable will make any difference in
my tone.

[fep]

Whatever you do, don't buy from Monster cable.

[RonD]

You don't say what's on either end of them.
For rock stuff, I don't really care about the cable. For anything clean, There can be a noticeable difference with a better cable.
I didn't find too much difference between a Planet waves cable, sorry, I don't know which model, and a Monster cable... other than price.
There was a significant improvement however, over the "cheap" stuff.
I hope some of our more tech savvy members chime in on this.
Cheers, Ron

[NSJ]

Ah, tell me more, I've had the cheap cables that fall apart. Do they make a difference in tone??? what are the best ones for arch tops ????

[Tom Karol]

Check out this old thread:
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...able-test.html

[RonD]

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

Check out this old thread:
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...able-test.html

Thanks Tom,
Seems that the "study" never got finished. I'd like to hear what some of our more tech oriented members, those with test gear and such, have to say on this.
My thinking is, the higher the quality of the individual components, the better the end result. I may be totally off base on this one, but I'm still curious.
Cheers, Ron

[cosmic gumbo]

Cables have been a dangerous subject in the past. Like all things musical, it's best to trust your own ears, rather than specs and myths.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by fep

Whatever you do, don't buy from Monster cable.

Huh?

I got a Monster going on 10 years old...longest I've ever had a cable last.

[RonD]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Cables have been a dangerous subject in the past. Like all things musical, it's best to trust your own ears rather than specs and myths.

Fair enough. It's too easy to get sucked in by all the hype.
You're right. My ears don't usually lie.

Cheers, Ron

[bkdavidson]

The only cable I've ever had crap out on me was a Monster Cable. I've had a few friends experience that same thing. With Horizon/Rapco type cables, I've never had a problem.

[mambosun]

Originally Posted by bkdavidson

The only cable I've ever had crap out on me was a Monster Cable. I've had a few friends experience that same thing. With Horizon/Rapco type cables, I've never had a problem.

I always ranked "cable magical effect" subject (for Musical instrument , Hifi etc..) as snake oil and not because I'm sure there's nothing but because the tinniest impact on the sound result a cable could give would be drowned and supersede by more critical and valid parameters.
However, in pure jazz guitar playing context ie: clean tone, mini humbucker / single coil, search for qualitative sound reproduction, some guitar players experiment sound difference ( ie darker vs brighter..) which doesn't mean better sound, just the one that suit their taste by usiong with certain cable references, not necessarily expensive ones.
Here's a interesting link which covers cable testing topics:
PSPICE Modeling of Guitar Circuits with Effects of the Instrument Cable

[asedas]

I recommend Zzyzx SnapJackâ„¢ Magnetic Precision Technology. I have this over 10 years now, and never had a problem with them. A lot better clean sound than planet waves I've used before. and nice magnetic jack when someone steps your cable on scene

[Bill C]

I like these ...

Superior Bass cable: Jack plug 2p - Jack plug 2p. / KLOTZ / TM.. - KLOTZ A.I.S. GmbH Onlineshop

They are affordable (imo) here in the EU - maybe a little more expensive elsewhere

[mattymel]

ive heard bad things about monster cable as a company. and some myths i wont go into though, i was scared off by them.

mogami makes very nice cables that i use for guitar and studio. noticeable difference in sound quality over your average cable.

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by mattymel

ive heard bad things about monster cable as a company. and some myths i wont go into though, i was scared off by them.

mogami makes very nice cables that i use for guitar and studio. noticeable difference in sound quality over your average cable.

I'm sure it's mostly about how they are overpriced.
Thanks, now I feel I made the wrong decision because my grandma
already bought the monster off amazon...

Originally Posted by asedas

I recommend Zzyzx SnapJackâ„¢ Magnetic Precision Technology. I have this over 10 years now, and never had a problem with them. A lot better clean sound than planet waves I've used before. and nice magnetic jack when someone steps your cable on scene

WOW, Those are amazing. The magnetic snap tips are genius!

[kamlapati]

I have great luck with Spectraflex. I have two that have a lot of use and have lasted 10 years.

I like the link to the cable simulation. I am an electrical engineer by day. The guy's science is solid. To a layman, it should say: different cables will sound different, but the effect varies somewhat from guitar to guitar.

I like the advice above: trust your ears. I would add, running your volume control at half will smooth out your sound in a much better way than rolling off the treble / tone knob.

[mambosun]

Originally Posted by Bill C

I like these ...

Superior Bass cable: Jack plug 2p - Jack plug 2p. / KLOTZ / TM.. - KLOTZ A.I.S. GmbH Onlineshop

They are affordable (imo) here in the EU - maybe a little more expensive elsewhere

Warmly recommended by a jazz guitar player, I just ordered a 3m Klotz Lagrange for a reasonable 20€. I 'll see and let you know.

[cosmic gumbo]

Of course everyone knows that the best guitar cable is made of intercom wire from Russian submarines. $500 a foot on the black market.

[fep]

Originally Posted by Vintage

I'm sure it's mostly about how they are overpriced.
Thanks, now I feel I made the wrong decision because my grandma
already bought the monster off amazon...



WOW, Those are amazing. The magnetic snap tips are genius!

For me, it's monster cables unethical business practices that is the reason I don't buy from them.

Check that other thread... there is a link that sends you to a US court system search that lists all the companies they have been sued by Monster cable for using the word 'monster' (like the movie Monster inc, the major league baseball staduim outfield fence called the Green Monster, etc. it's a really really long list). These shake down lawsuits are one of their revenue sources.

[mr. beaumont]

Boy, have I learned a lot about Monster via this thread. Ignorance is bliss I guess...I had no idea.

If mine ever break I'll certainly consider purchasing from somebody else!

[Dad3353]

Originally Posted by asedas

I recommend Zzyzx SnapJackâ„¢ Magnetic Precision Technology. I have this over 10 years now, and never had a problem with them. A lot better clean sound than planet waves I've used before. and nice magnetic jack when someone steps your cable on scene

A+ for these, (almost...) indestructible and very useful when (if...) changing guitars on the fly. Tiny inconvenience (for some...): one can forget to pull the plug from an active guitar (EMG etc...), and run down the battery. Other than that, they're close to perfection. Cables? We've been through them all (except the Soviet sub cable runs, a bit long for our use; we would trip over the excess...). No issues with magnetics; highly recommended (no affiliation, of course...).

[TieDyedDevil]

I've pretty much sworn off on cable threads because they're the subject of far too much religion for my agnostic taste.

That said, I'll join in for just this one post.

I've done the research. I'm not repeating internet "fact" or second-hand opinion.

Here's what I believe to be true:

1) There's only one thing that's really important w.r.t. choosing a cable, and that's physical construction. You want a cable that's not going to flake out on you after a couple months of normal use. A decent cable should easily last for years, even decades.

2) Different cables do in fact interact with the pickups in your guitar to alter the sound in ways that range from subtle to dramatic. You'll notice these effects primarily in the upper midrange frequencies. (Buy or build yourself a collection of cables having different materials, construction and dimensions and compare them.) BTW, if you're the type of guitarist who habitually rolls off the treble, you probably won't notice the sonic effects of the cable.

3) All of the esoteric claims that you'll encounter regarding materials, construction techniques and metallurgy are complete and utter marketing bullshit designed to convince you that there's a reason to spend twenty, one-hundred or one-thousand (don't laugh, they're out there) times the actual cost of materials. (Use Google Scholar to try to find evidence supporting these claims.)

4) Yes, the expensive cables sound different. So do the inexpensive cables. Different is not necessarily better, unless you need to convince yourself that your expensive cable really is worth what you paid. (Look up "cognitive dissonance".)

Here are some articles I've written documenting my research, experiences and listening tests:

David Lamkins - Guitarist - Cable comparison, part 1
David Lamkins - Guitarist - Cable comparison, part 2
David Lamkins - Guitarist - Cable Nuances Revisited
David Lamkins - Guitarist - Guitar cords - what's important?
David Lamkins - Guitarist - High-end Cables
David Lamkins - Guitarist - On magic cables

I encourage you not to take any of this as gospel truth, but rather as challenges to the marketing bullshit which pervades this subject and as suggestions for things you might do on your own to understand what really matters about instrument cables.

[ksjazzguitar]

I may regret piping in here, but I love George L's. They sound good to me and are utterly indestructible. If they do crap out, the screw end makes it a 30 second solderless repair. I just bought 50 feet of cable and a bunch of ends and made what I needed. I remember I decided to try them after I read a Guitar Player article that rated them as having nearly as good conductance specs as the expensive ones but with more durability and a lower price. I've had no complaints. My original batch has lasted me 12 years now and are still going strong.

I'm not saying their the best strings, but they are pretty darn good. They work for me.

Peace,
Kevin

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil

I've pretty much sworn off on cable threads because they're the subject of far too much religion for my agnostic taste.

Thanks for that! I've been thinking about the cables that seem to be gimmicks rather than the ones that will actually last.

Originally Posted by ksjazzguitar

I may regret piping in here, but I love George L's. They sound good to me and are utterly indestructible. If they do crap out, the screw end makes it a 30 second solderless repair. I just bought 50 feet of cable and a bunch of ends and made what I needed. I remember I decided to try them after I read a Guitar Player article that rated them as having nearly as good conductance specs as the expensive ones but with more durability and a lower price. I've had no complaints. My original batch has lasted me 12 years now and are still going strong.

I'm not saying their the best strings, but they are pretty darn good. They work for me.

Peace,
Kevin

Those are pretty cheap. I like the screw better than my cables
that fall apart after unplugging so many times.
Horizon Standard Guitar Cable and more Instrument Cables at GuitarCenter.com.
They make me mad, but have lasted awhile. About the soldering,
I don't own any soldering tools. You're saying if the cable had a short in
it, you can fix it by soldering?

[ksjazzguitar]

Originally Posted by Vintage

About the soldering, I don't own any soldering tools. You're saying if the cable had a short in it, you can fix it by soldering?

If you can find the break, you can cut it out and resolder the ends on. Although, you may need to cut away some rubber coating or even get new plugs. You can always replace the rubber coating with some heat shrink tubing if you want the protection/stress relief.

Usually that break is right at the plug or in the plug itself (sometimes just being that the wire has been pulled off the connection tab of the plug.) It's really not that hard, but it can be a pain in the neck. You'd just need a basic soldering pen, some solder, and a DVM to check for continuity. A solder sucker is nice if you have to clean up some connections. I think it's good for guitar players to be able to do basic guitar repairs.

But it's much easier with the George L's, you just get a clean cut on the end of the cable, and screw the plug on and the outside teeth cut through the insolation and connect to the ground and the prong inside the plug connects to the signal wire. There's no soldering involved. It takes a little bit of practice to get it right, but it ain't too hard. I redo the plugs about once a year, just cut off and inch of the cable and splice on the plug. I suppose that my cables are gradually getting shorter by 2 inches a year, but I've been using the same cables for 12 years now, so I'm not worried.

There probably are better cables out there, but I'm not sure there are better for that combination of sound/price/durability, IMHO.

Peace,
Kevin

[tonedeaf]

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil

I've pretty much sworn off on cable threads because they're the subject of far too much religion for my agnostic taste.


Here's what I believe to be true:

1) There's only one thing that's really important w.r.t. choosing a cable, and that's physical construction. You want a cable that's not going to flake out on you after a couple months of normal use. A decent cable should easily last for years, even decades.

This point is important to remember. A lot of the claims for expensive cables may be nonsense, but in a mechancial sense, there is a difference in cables: quality of the outer sheath, continuity of the shielding, effective strain relief and mechanical connection of all the parts.

Unfortunately cost often does reflect quality.

[milesfandavid]

As a card-carrying member of the fringe hi-fi crowd, I've had a lot of experience with numerous cables from a plethora of manufacturers. Some can sound radically different from each other in one stereo system, only to have those differences vanish in another system. I don't buy into all the hype about why a certain cable is better, but I certainly can hear differences. My stereo sports some fairly pricey cabling because it sounded the best to me. Trust your ears.

Interestingly, I've never tried a high-end guitar cord - for some reason, I don't even have much interest in trying any. I've used George L's cabling for many years now, and I'm completely satisfied. Go figure.

[cosmic gumbo]

Something I've learned through the years, and verified by some audio engineers, is that some cables can be very directional. This means some cables give superior audio performance when run in a specific direction from source to destination. I've heard plenty of cables that sounded better in one direction over the other. Not all, but plenty. If you couldn't hear the difference, I wouldn't mention it, since it's something any guitarist can test for themselves.

[NiAg]

And yet, where is the objective, verifiable measured difference in cable direction?

Not grain structure or whatever, but actual measured electronic signal difference based on direction of an AC signal.

So far, the suggestability of humans is the largest factor involved.

The funniest is the Lava Cable guy on TGP. Clearly he has no idea whatsoever why his directional product is called directional except that someone told him it was a thing to do.

[telemust]

cables...mistery...i tried many cables no big difference to be hoenst especially for the tone...now i use klotz (low noise mic cable) one of them is my production 3 mt cable/jack and soldering...its cheap i am happy...i think most improtant part is durability rather than tone quality...i also have fender vintage voltage really good...ciao