Non-Vintage Gibson L-7

**spiral** · 11-22-2010, 02:54 AM

I am currently wrestling with trying to find a good acoustic archtop and noticed that the Gibson L7c is about the same price as the L5 copies of some private luthiers. Has anyone played it? Worth $4k used?

I fell in love with a Campellone over the summer as well, so i am trying to eliminate candidates. FWIW i have been also looking at the Tacoma AJF Jazz King and Aria FA77. I realize they are all over the map in price and build but they all have desirable acoustic qualities, but i won't easily be able to play them all in a room, or at all. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

**fws6** · 11-22-2010, 04:34 AM

I have never played the newer Gibsons, but I am sure that a (used) Gibson is a safe bet from an investment point of view.

So why not see how low the seller will go, buy it, and try it for a while ?

If you keep it clean and decide dont like it, you can easily sell it for the same amount. Whereas the other guitars you mention will only raise 60-70% of the value upon resale and are hard to sell in the current economy.

Gibson is still an A-brand no matter how many Firebird-X's they put out...

**Eddie Lang** · 11-22-2010, 08:18 PM

Are you thinking about the 2006 L-7C at archtop.com? All I can say is that I've done business with them before and Joe Vinikow is a class act. The deal was smooth, the guitar in great condition and the whole transaction was a pleasure from beginning to end.

I usually prefer vintage guitars and if I was looking for one like an L-7C, I'd check out the one at Gruhn Guitars.

**spiral** · 11-22-2010, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Eddie Lang

Are you thinking about the 2006 L-7C at archtop.com? All I can say is that I've done business with them before and Joe Vinikow is a class act. The deal was smooth, the guitar in great condition and the whole transaction was a pleasure from beginning to end.

I usually prefer vintage guitars and if I was looking for one like an L-7C, I'd check out the one at Gruhn Guitars.

Thanks. Yes i had seen the one at archtop.com and thought it was a decent price but didn't know how good the newer production was. I've had my fill of vintage archtops so want something a little more recent just for durability and less potential neck + top issues. That's not to say i wouldn't buy a vintage guitar, but it would have to be in front of me to consider it.

JohnW is likely right. I really did love the Campellone i played but am having problems actually buying the ones i wanted. I tried two different times and it didn't work out. I saw the dark burst Gibson L7 and got distracted. I don't normally like sunbursts but that super dark black in the Gibson is hotness.

How firm are the prices at archtop.com?

Thanks for the Gruhn pic. I'm not a fan of the florentine cutaway otherwise i would have considered one of the new Loars.

Thanks again for the comments.

**Eddie Lang** · 11-22-2010, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by spiral

How firm are the prices at archtop.com?

It depends. If it's a consignment, it's pretty close to firm. Otherwise, I suggest talking or writing. I found that Joe is someone you can talk to.

EDIT: according to my experience with him, of course.

**kamlapati** · 11-23-2010, 12:48 PM

I've played some reissue L-7's that were very nice, and that would of found a nice place in my stable, but I also played one that was quite uninspiring.

I'll second much of the above: a vintage L-5 is much more of a sure investment, and Joe Vinakow is a great guy to deal with. One factor in favor of buying a guitar from Joe is that he will also resell it for you.

With any of the alternatives you cite, you'll end up with a great guitar. Have fun.

**mattymel** · 01-07-2011, 07:11 PM

hey. i live in seattle and have played the newer L7 you are speaking of. Joe and I both agree the new Montana built Gibson L7 archtops are the best archtops gibson is making right now. they sound outstanding. for me, easily put newer super400s and L5s to shame unplugged. no comparison. i would say the newer L7s can easily hold their own against most luthier built guitars. AND they sound and feel like gibsons, which is what some people want.

my only other recommendation is thinking about an old Epi, of which i am a very proud owner. for me, they are the best deal going by far. and you can get a 40s or 50s Epi for the price of a newer Gibson. and the old Epis are CONSISTENT. Emperors and Deluxe can be a little pricey, but Triumphs are a amazing guitar for less than 3K. i hang out at joe's and play them any chance i get. Epis are WHERE IT IS AT if you are looking for a solid archtop with great acoustic tone. they put almost any comparable gibson from the same period to shame for 1/3 the price.

but for the money, new L7s are a GREAT buy too. you wouldnt be sorry. i just bought a ES335 59' reissue from Joe TODAY. check it...

**spiral** · 01-08-2011, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by mattymel

hey. i live in seattle and have played the newer L7 you are speaking of. Joe and I both agree the new Montana built Gibson L7 archtops are the best archtops gibson is making right now. they sound outstanding. [...] my only other recommendation is thinking about an old Epi[...]

Thanks for your reply. I have played a few vintage Epiphones and they sound pretty good but they always seem to be trashed. When i come across them on eBay, or GBase, or even Craigslist, they just seem to have been very road-worn. Is that because they were cheaper and people actually played them and the Gibsons were like expensive jewels that people just kept in glass cases?

I mentioned before really wanting a more recently build guitar so that is why the L7 was interesting to me. The one at Archtop.com is overpriced IMO, not because it isn't worth it, but because i have seen the same guitar not sell for $2k and below on ebay / craigslist. If i could get it for less than $3k i would take the chance or make an offer, but it's a consignment.

Though, i have to say your review / enthusiasm has rekindled my interest in the L7. I had made up my mind to forget about it. Thanks for nothin'!

ps. congrats on a very pretty new addition to your stable!

pps. i just checked the Elderly site, and over xmas i played that Epiphone Triumph they have listed. It was ok. It had seen some miles. Sounded decent but not better than my Tacoma or CF-1. I'll keep my eyes peeled for others though.

**mattymel** · 01-08-2011, 06:35 PM

hmmm...never associated Epis as getting more trashed than Gibsons. the ones Joe gets in are usually in great condition for 40 or 50 year old guitars. mine is a 1940 Deluxe and it has a good amount of checking. but that is more than made up for in tone. i dont mind it because i figure if it has lasted this long, it aint going anywhere.

i used to be more of a gibson guy because i always thought i liked mounted pickups better. i still wouldnt mind finding a ES175 at some point, but now i really miss not hearing that acoustic sound coming through (even if slightly) when i am plugged in. honestly, pretty much any epi blows the best gibsons away in that arena IMHO.

good luck in the search. the L7s are great guitars.

**rpguitar** · 01-08-2011, 11:40 PM

I have not played the L-7C reissue, but I just grabbed a 1934 L-5 historic reissue and it's just a fabulous guitar. It gives up nothing at all to the vintage Gibsons I've owned and played. It's light, super responsive, and flawlessly constructed. It's made in Nashville rather than Montana, however. But if the same philosophy is applied to production of the L-7, I'm sure it's a winner too.

**JohnW400** · 01-09-2011, 12:03 AM

Roger ,

How does the reissue compare to your '47?

**rpguitar** · 01-09-2011, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by JohnW400

How does the reissue compare to your '47?

They are pretty different in tone and response, but not in quality or overall vibe.

Both are parallel braced. The '47 is 17" at the lower bout while the '34 RI is 16". The '47 is very direct, very punchy and full of cutting midrange, louder, and full sounding. It's not as rich in overtones though, and I think the sustain is less even while the guitar is louder.

The '34 RI is more sensitive to touch, better for fingerstyle, a little softer but with more dynamic range, and better overtones. It's a more intimate guitar suitable for several styles, while the '47 is more about straight ahead jazz and swing.

The '34 RI feels every bit as broken in and "loose" as its 64 year old ancestor. That's what really amazes me about it.

**h1pst3r88** · 06-13-2016, 07:53 PM

Guys,

Just picked up a Bozeman L7C. I unpacked it, beautiful condition and finish in black, finished off with a USA floating Kent Armstrong installed.

But as I picked it up, I noticed what I see as a dip in the middle of the top... pretty much right under the bridge. I have never had an L7C, but this 2010's top doesn't look anything like the many vintage acoustic archtops I have had.

I tried to show the dip, with what I see as the lowest point right around the bridge, and the two highest points right under the floating pickup and just under about the middle of the bridge.

Can you guys give me a look and let me know your thoughts?

Thanks!

-Chris

Non-Vintage Gibson L-7-img_8951-jpg

**h1pst3r88** · 06-13-2016, 07:54 PM

**vinlander** · 06-13-2016, 08:28 PM

Judging by the bridge showing barely no thread it seems designed this way and not raised to compensate any sinking.
Probably a normal curvature on these models but I am not an expert, some others might chime in.

**h1pst3r88** · 06-13-2016, 08:32 PM

Thanks, Vin. That would make me very relieved!

**Top of the Arch!** · 06-13-2016, 08:46 PM

Does it have kerfed bracing? Bob

**h1pst3r88** · 06-13-2016, 08:47 PM

What is that, Bob ;-)

-Chris

**Top of the Arch!** · 06-13-2016, 08:56 PM

Its when the bracing is cut like the bracing for the sides where the top and bottom are glued. The wood is flexible so it can follow the contour of the body. Gibson used that type of bracing on some 175s I believe and the tops are prone to sinking under string pressure. The top bracing should be solid, Im sure that it has solid bracing seeing as its a solid top not lam now that I think of it. But as already mentioned, the bridge isnt topped off so it should be good to go. Enjoy that bad boy!! Bob

**zizala** · 06-13-2016, 10:07 PM

Your photos show the only one I've looked at, but I'm pretty sure that top profile is by design.....unlike vintage L-7c's those Bozeman L-7c's are X-braced...I'd suppose inspired by the 17" Advanced Gibson archtops circa '34-'39.

Many have suspected the 30's X-braced Gibsons to have sagging tops (and some may very well have had such a condition) but the flattened area under the bridge is normal for those. Its easy to get upset if thats not what one is expecting to see.

**Max405** · 06-13-2016, 10:44 PM

If you have thin phone, slip it inside the Fhole and take some pics of the inside. If the braces are loose, the camera will show you. I agree that it's perfectly fine.
Great guitar by the way. Congratulations.

Joe D

**KirkP** · 06-13-2016, 10:57 PM

My 1937 x-braced L-7 has a similar top. Like your L-7C, the bridge seems normal. I've had it over a decade and I've never had to adjust the bridge. It worried me when I compared it to parallel braced L-7s, but after some research I concluded it's normal and stable.

**QAman** · 06-13-2016, 11:00 PM

My new ES-275 has a similar configuration by design. If your top was sinking the bridge saddle would require continuous adjustment and I'm not noticing any huge gap between saddle and bridge bass in the pictures. I agree with Joe and Vinlander.

**wintermoon** · 06-14-2016, 12:08 AM

I'm sure it's fine.
a quick way to check is making sure both edges of the f-hole are on the same plane, and in this case they are.
usually in the case of a sinking top the inner edge of the f-hole will be lower than the outer edge.

the odd thing is I haven't seen that kind of carving on a Gibson since the 30s as Zizila pointed out.
but maybe he's also correct in that since it's x-braced they went that route.

**Hammertone** · 06-14-2016, 01:59 AM

Gibson used a "double hump" carve on its 17" Advanced-body X-braced archtop bodies in the 1930's - specifically on the L-7, L-10, L-12 and L-5. My guess is that the Super 400 also had it, but I just don't remember. They stopped doing this in the late 1930s, when they changed these models from 24 3/4" scale/x-braced/double-hump carves to 25 1/2"/parallel braced/single hump carves, although some of the top carves on these are kind of inbetween.

The Bozeman L-7C was designed to emulate the sound of a '30s Gibson Advanced L-7 acoustic archtop, and has the same general construction - double hump carve, short scale, mahogany neck. The high points are typically just past the fingerboard extension and around the forward end of the tailpiece extension.

As zizala points out, "many have suspected the 30'sX-braced Gibsons to have sagging tops (and some may very well have had such a condition) but the flattened area under the bridge is normal for those. Its easy to get upset if thats not what one is expecting to see." Lucky buyers are the beneficiaries of uninformed sellers when it comes to transactions of this sort.

Rainbow sold an all-black Bozeman L-7C last year, I believe, with a few minor issues that had been remediated. Does this one have perloid inlays, or do they match the binding? Just curious. Please post pix of the front of the guitar.