Intonation issues on CV Telecaster

BobD · #1 11-16-2010, 07:11 AM

My classic vibe 50's telecaster has an issue with the G and D strings. I can tune the guitar on the open strings but when I play Ab,A or Bb on the G string they are all sharp. It's most sharp on the 1st fret and gets less out of tune as I move up the frets so that the 4th fret is in tune. The same happens on the D string. Also, on the first fret if I press harder the note goes even more sharp. At first I thought it was me but I tried just laying my finger on that first fret so that the string was just muted. Then I plucked the string and pressed progressively harder until the string was no longer muted and a note sounded. That was as light as anyone is going to press down and it was still sharp. It's very annoying because I'm playing out of the William Leavitt book and right now it's all first position open chords that sopund really out of tune.

Is this a fret problem, saddle problem or maybe nut problem? I lean towards it being a nut problem because the tuning gets better as I get further away from the nut.

Tom Karol · #2 11-16-2010, 07:19 AM

Yup, could be a nut problem. Take it to a pro - the guy I recommended privately - it will be worth it! You can bring it over here if you want my hands-on assessment. (BobD lives in the next town over from me.)

JazzyJim · #3 11-17-2010, 03:14 AM

It's probably a mixture of an overly high/badly cut nut and intonation issues caused by the vintage saddles.

My method of telling if it's intonation is a bit inelegant, but it's quick and normally works - if you play an open E chord shape an octave up (ie - 0/14/14/13/0/0 low to high) and it sounds out, then it's the bridge intonation. It can be remedied to some extent by using compensated saddles, or by swapping to a modern six saddle arrangement.

Either way, a new or re-cut nut and a set up would definitely help.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #4 11-17-2010, 08:33 AM

My guess is nut. Did you put on heavier strings? The wound (?) G string may be sitting too high in the nut slot.

jazzbow · #5 11-17-2010, 01:28 PM

Classic vibe 50's telecaster, is it the two string to one saddle style bridge? If it is then they're notorious for not getting to intonate properly. You need compensated saddles, check link

STEWMAC.COM : Compensated Bridge Saddles for Tele

Now these are compensated for a plain G string. If you are using a wound G string then you need to get a compensated saddle for wound G + D, I have'nt seen these for sale but I'm sure they're out there. ( you could file the compensation onto your existing saddles!) The only alternative is to fork out for a bridge unit with 6 saddles. You can go the whole hog and get your local luthier to install a 'Buzz Feinten' nut system (check the net for info).
To set a rough intonation, measure from edge of nut to centre of 12th fret, double this and that'll be the length from nut to string break off point on the saddle for your top E (this is your scale length for your guitar), then add the gauge thickness to this length for the B string length, for plain G add thickness of string gauge to scale length, if wound G then set to same length as top E string, then for D string add gauge thickness. Repeat this for the rest of the strings. This is a quick rough intonation, now you plug into a tuner and do the old 12th fret harmonic compared to fretted note (I use 19th fret harmonic/fretted note as well).

Hope this helps........;-/

mr. beaumont · #6 11-17-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzbow

Classic vibe 50's telecaster, is it the two string to one saddle style bridge? If it is then they're notorious for not getting to intonate properly. You need compensated saddles, check link

STEWMAC.COM : Compensated Bridge Saddles for Tele

Now these are compensated for a plain G string. If you are using a wound G string then you need to get a compensated saddle for wound G + D, I have'nt seen these for sale but I'm sure they're out there. ( you could file the compensation onto your existing saddles!) The only alternative is to fork out for a bridge unit with 6 saddles. You can go the whole hog and get your local luthier to install a 'Buzz Feinten' nut system (check the net for info).
To set a rough intonation, measure from edge of nut to centre of 12th fret, double this and that'll be the length from nut to string break off point on the saddle for your top E (this is your scale length for your guitar), then add the gauge thickness to this length for the B string length, for plain G add thickness of string gauge to scale length, if wound G then set to same length as top E string, then for D string add gauge thickness. Repeat this for the rest of the strings. This is a quick rough intonation, now you plug into a tuner and do the old 12th fret harmonic compared to fretted note (I use 19th fret harmonic/fretted note as well).

Hope this helps........;-/

With the stewmac compensated saddles, just flip the saddle over for a wound G. Gotta pull the screws out and put 'em back in (the little height adjustment ones) but NBD, really.

With a properly cut nut, I can get most 3 saddle teles I've encountered (including the few I've owned) close enough that your ears can't tell. I've actually found that the old, 3 straight saddle tele bridges work nicer with a wound G than a plain (makes sense, considering this design is from the late 40's!)

my guess is the nut is the biggest issue right now--very few cheaper guitars have a properly cut nut for heavier strings.

jazzbow · #7 11-17-2010, 01:39 PM

Just another tip to check whether you nut is cut properly, fret any string at the 4th fret and then with a piece of .10 gauge string, see if it slips between top of 1st fret and bottom of fretted string, too much space means a a bit of a filing. I've seen geetars with enough space in this area to comfortably pass a thin pick....

BobD · #8 11-17-2010, 01:45 PM

I'm going to take it to a shop to get it set up properly. When I brought the guitar home I changed the strings from 9's to 10's. I didn't notice any intonation issues on the 9's but didn't play them for that long. Hoping it's just a matter of fixing the nut to accept the larger 10's but I will have them lower the action a bit and check the grounding too.

hamburg113 · #9 05-04-2011, 08:14 AM

Hi

You can find this info by using search box in the top of website with some keywords related before posting questions.

If you want to get more materials that related to this topic, you can visit: CV free

Best regards.

burchyk · #10 05-04-2011, 01:20 PM

It might also be nut height that makes you push the string too far to reach the fret thus making the pitch sharper on the same distance from the nut. I would highly recommend having a luthier replace the stock plastic nut with something better

NiAg · #11 05-04-2011, 08:19 PM

>>> It might also be nut height that makes you push the string too far to reach the fret thus making the pitch sharper on the same distance from the nut.

Ta-Da, as they say.

Following recent events in Pakistan, the new #1 threat to civilization is excessive nut slot height. It's bad for playability and terrible for low position intonation. In my opinion.

tele jazz · #12 05-05-2011, 03:56 AM

capo it at the 3rd fret and try the intonation at the 15th.

if that is ok then it is the nut. if not then it could be the saddles.

from what you have said it seems like the nut is too high

Retroman1969 · #13 05-05-2011, 04:51 AM

Judging by the description of your problem, the nut needs to be filed. Almost all nuts need filing on Squiers and even more expensive guitars, especially if you go to heavier strings.