Nylon strings won't stay in tune!!

mangotango · #1 11-11-2010, 10:03 AM

I have a Yamaha Silent Guitar with Nylon strings, bought a little while ago. Finally stopped being lazy and got round to changing the factory-fitted strings. Put on a set of Augustine strings about a fortnight ago.

And I play this guitar regularly, I have stretched the strings, I both thrash it and pluck gently, but for the life of me, these strings will not stay in tune.

Now I have had this problem with nylon strings before, so it's not down to this brand of strings or guitar. Maybe it's the way that I'm putting them onto the guitar, but it doesn't look any different from the way that the factory-installed strings looked. What am I missing here??

SamBooka · #2 11-11-2010, 10:15 AM

There is actually an art to tying off classical strings.
I havent changed a set in a while (like 3 sets in the past 13 years) but getting the ends tied at the bridge AND the tuners isnt that obvious. Wound strings dont slip that badly but the plain strings are a PITA.

rexi · #3 11-11-2010, 10:26 AM

Might be how you thread them in the tuners.

I studied classical guitar ages ago and my teacher tought me to lock them into place by making the string go over it self(so the string makes kind of an X) while your putting tension on it with the tuners. It takes care of this problem for me.

I have no idea how to describe this properly sorry.. must be some pics somewhere on the web.

moray · #4 11-11-2010, 10:27 AM

May be this helps:

Code:

http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/Classical/ClassicStr/classicstr1.html

Ollie

henry b · #5 11-11-2010, 10:30 AM

Nylon strings can take a while to settle in , you can get ball end nylon strings that will not move over the saddle like tie on ones do . hth

mangotango · #6 11-11-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moray

May be this helps:

Code:

http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/Classical/ClassicStr/classicstr1.html

Ollie

BRILLIANT!!

Yes, my guitar looks like the "badly done" version; so will need to have another go. Any experience/recommendations as to which strings are good, and what gauge/tension I should be looking at (bearing in mind that it's purely an electric instrument)?

Thanks to all for your responses - much appreciated, guys.

fep · #7 11-11-2010, 11:29 AM

Even when you do a good job of putting them on they can take a week or so before they stop streching. During the first couple of weeks I tune several times a day and when I'm done playing I tune them a little sharp.

krusty · #8 11-11-2010, 01:30 PM

My luck with nylons has been terrible. I know how to restring properly, and have been doing it for years. The strings stretch constantly for a week, as mentioned, but I always find that as mine get to the point of settling, they will break. I now use Thomastik Classic S (rope core, ball end). They settle immediately like my electrics, and my breakage rate has been zero. On a guitar like yours (and mine) where you are plugging in, the slight difference in tone between these and regular nylon strings will be unnoticeable. Some reviewers hate them, others love them. If I was a concert classical guitarist, I might not like them as much as I do, but for plugged-in work, they are just the thing.

mangotango · #9 04-05-2011, 06:46 AM

OK, so I'm becoming less happy with this guitar as time goes by. The action seems higher than before - 5.5mm at the 12th fret. Not Freddie Green yet, but..... Doesn't seem to be any truss rod option, without taking it to bits. Have e-m'd Yamaha, but no response as yet.

Also, whereas it sounds OK on its own, or in quiet format - once I'm playing in the quartet with a drummer and I have to dig in a little, then it becomes a little strident and harsh; doesn't sound like a nylon-string any more. In fact it barely sound acoustic at all (I suppose it isn't).

Opinions, anyone?

cooledit · #10 04-05-2011, 01:43 PM

Nylon strings Brand La Bella stringsbymail.com i like the free buzz ones.
500P I think they are called. do you have the thing amplified or using a microphone ?

I do admit I have a very nice handmade guitar myself yes I made it very good acoustic sound. A second guitar well it's for sale lets put it like it is. Jose Ramirez with Fishman pro amp I hate the amp sound getting a dpa 4099 for the hand made a very nice mic.

these strings i mentioned La Bella have flamingo strings black i tried that one quite nice too. the La bella P500 last about 80 hours of play before they die off wheres other strings i have tried seems to wear off about after 50.

Well I had to look up the strident harsh thing to get your point, Augustine i never tried them. Of he colleagues who has tried the La Bella all said wow nice. another brand could be Hannabach but I prefer the others much more just imagine no buzz sound when sliding over fret. There was also some animal strings or natural on the stringsbymail site. Check it out and update the post here for the rest of us to follow your string journey.

I have used the La Bella for the last 4 years nver bought other brand,
for steel I would use Elixir.

Best regards
Cooledit

JohnW400 · #11 04-05-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mangotango

OK, so I'm becoming less happy with this guitar as time goes by. The action seems higher than before - 5.5mm at the 12th fret. Not Freddie Green yet, but..... Doesn't seem to be any truss rod option, without taking it to bits. Have e-m'd Yamaha, but no response as yet.

Also, whereas it sounds OK on its own, or in quiet format - once I'm playing in the quartet with a drummer and I have to dig in a little, then it becomes a little strident and harsh; doesn't sound like a nylon-string any more. In fact it barely sound acoustic at all (I suppose it isn't).

Opinions, anyone?

As far as action you would most likely need to have the saddle sanded down to lower it. As far as strings, D'Addario makes a set of 9 strings. (extra set of basses) Since the basses tend to go way before the trebles this comes in handy. I think the number is EJ46.

I also think they are composite strings and designed to squeak less. I notice that strings start to go sharp after I've played them for a while. I've noticed this with steel strings as well. (have yet to figure out why. Maybe temperature, woods expanding. )

brad4d8 · #12 04-05-2011, 04:26 PM

The high action sounds like the saddle needs to be lowered, although not being familiar with the Yamaha Silent Guitar I don't know if this is as easy as it is on a regular classical guitar. As to the strings stretching, my guess is they are slipping through the tuner rollers. I once had a high 'e' string slip all the way through and come loose, even though it was fastened on in the usually recommended manner. I have since developed a method where I actually tie a knot on the unwound strings so this can't happen again. Knot easy to describe, but I push the end through the roller, bring it around the roller and tie it to the string on the nut side of the roller. Sounds more complicated than it is.
Brad

Archie · #13 04-06-2011, 01:48 AM

I sanded down the saddle base on my Silent Guitar. You have to be very careful to get it perfectly flat and level, because it sits on top of the pickup ribbon. If it's not even, some of the strings will end up being quieter than others.

mangotango · #14 04-06-2011, 03:51 AM

Thanks guys - not being even close to comfortable with trying that kind of work, I would get a luthier to do it. My question is - the action was never even close to this high before or I wouldn't have bought it; how come it would suddenly (couple of months) have gone that way? Neck looks straight, no visible bending - have set a straight-edge against it and nothing to indicate a bow of the neck. Don't get it - no extremes of heat or humidity, only mild central heating, nothing left leaning on it. no external reason that I can see.

Archie · #15 04-06-2011, 08:45 AM

It's not really so bad. I think Yamaha uses a hard plastic for the saddle, not bone. It takes quite a lot of sanding, so you don't really need to worry too much about taking off too much, and if you do, you can get another saddle blank cheaply from a local music shop.

I can't imagine the neck on one of these things bowing; they're very thick and solid.

I always putter about with a new guitar until I get it the way I like it. If you haven't already got a copy, Dan Erlewine's book on guitar setup is a good investment. There are sections on how to set up electric, steel-string acoustic and nylon guitars. I do just the basic stuff myself, but he shows you how to do just about everything.