Heritage vs Guild archtops?

[Steve Z]

There has been plenty of discussion of Heritage archtops and Guild archtops, but no real talks of comparisons. I recently acquired a Heritage Golden Eagle Custom with Seth Lover pickup and it has exceeded my expectations. I am interested in getting a 24 3/4 scale archtop and the Guilds get a lot of great praise, but I have never played one. Any thoughts of Guild vs. Heritage?


Cheers,
Steve

[Steve Hoffman]

Guilds, you mean like the X-500, Artist Award, etc. from the 1950s to 90s? Those are wonderful guitars, always underpriced, always high quality.

Heritage guitars are more like Gibsons (duh) but my Guild 1978 Artist Award is the best sounding archtop acoustically I have (ignoring the Super 400). A Guild in great shape won't let you down.

On the other hand, I've played some Heritages that are stiffs. I have a nice Heritage Sweet 16 (beautiful guitar) and I've played some other goodies.

Bottom line, you can almost always buy a Guild in good shape on line and not be disappointed. Heritage guitars need to be auditioned first.

[Steve Z]

Originally Posted by Steve Hoffman

...Bottom line, you can almost always buy a Guild in good shape on line and not be disappointed. Heritage guitars need to be auditioned first.

Steve,

Thanks for the comments... especially the last sentence. This sort of mirrors my experience as I had played a Heritage at a guitar show that did not fit me well, but the Golden Eagle I recently bought fits me like a glove.

Nice to hear that the Guild guitars are rather consistent.


-----

Any other comments?


Cheers,
Steve

[Jazzophobe]

I've got 3 Heritage archtops (Millennium DC, H550, H575), and a Guild X 170 (made in Westerly, RI)...they are all fabulous guitars! I love the quality from both manuafacturers (I also have a Guild acoustic).

[backliner]

I have enjoyed both Heritage and Guild archtops alternately.

Most of my Heritage were solid wood (H-575, basic Eagles, etc), and all of my Guilds were short scale laminated 16" like X-150 Savoys with one or two build-in pickups.

I think either brand are fine and both make nice playing and sounding archtops. It comes down to the models and features.

The prices are similiar in my mind, except they haven't been making Guild archtops for a while so availability can be problematic (fortunately there seem to be lots of used ones, depending on region).

Both companies seem to offer that good ol' American archtop feel and flavor for traditionalists like me (though some Ibanez models are pretty cool for way cheap).

I think the Heritage HRW pickups are nice PAF clones, but the full-sized old Schallers are underated IMHO. The floating Schallers like on Eagles never really gave me much lushness, but that's to be expected I guess.

[cosmic gumbo]

A nice Guild archtop would be my dream jazz guitar. I couldn't imagine anything playing or sounding better. Hope I can get one someday, before they get too expensive. They will never go down in value, also a desirable trait.

[donojazz62220]

I a Heritage 575 that I love and plays great through a Clarus 1R and Raezors Edge. However I agree that they must be test driven before purchase...

I just found and bought a used Ibanez GB200 and I'm having a real hard time deciding which axe to play. What tone!!!

jd

[Steve Hoffman]

Both the HERITAGE and the GUILD are pretty much the last good deals in archtop guitars, made in the ol' USA.

Both underpriced and undervalued. PERFECT for us jazz guitar lovers.

[brad4d8]

You can probably guess from my signature that I like Guilds ( I also have two of their 12s, two flattop sixes and a T-250 solid body). I've only played a few Heritage guitars, but the Golden Eagle is definitely on my short list of guitars to try and maybe buy. I agree with the poster who said Guild and Heritage are the last area of affordable US made archtops.
Brad

[Steve Z]

Originally Posted by brad4d8

..I agree with the poster who said Guild and Heritage are the last area of affordable US made archtops.
Brad

Thanks for the comments everyone. It seems like the reoccurring comments is the above quote as well as...

(1) Guilds are pretty consistent and buying online without playing is a rather safe bet

(2) Heritage guitars seem to vary between guitars a bit more and the try it before you buy it applies more to Heritage guitars.


Cheers,
Steve

[backliner]

Originally Posted by Steve Z

...(1) Guilds are pretty consistent and buying online without playing is a rather safe bet...

That depends on the age and model.

I'd say probably any of the Savoys built late in the Westerly era or FMIC are a good bet.

But I have seen some quite expensive older X-500's, X-175's etc and even some newer X-160/170 models that needed a neck reset.

[Steve Z]

Originally Posted by backliner

That depends on the age and model.

I'd say probably any of the Savoys built late in the Westerly era or FMIC are a good bet.

But I have seen some quite expensive older X-500's, X-175's etc and even some newer X-160/170 models that needed a neck reset.

This is the first time that I read that the Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) era Guilds are preferred over the earlier guitars. It seems every for sale advertisement I see either stresses that the guitar is a Westerley built guitar or the ad tries to not mention it is a FMIC built guitar. The Westerly guitars just seem to be more in demand... perception perhaps... interesting.


Cheers,
Steve

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by Steve Z

This is the first time that I read that the Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) era Guilds are preferred over the earlier guitars. It seems every for sale advertisement I see either stresses that the guitar is a Westerley built guitar or the ad tries to not mention it is a FMIC built guitar. The Westerly guitars just seem to be more in demand... perception perhaps... interesting.

FMIC era instruments were produced in Westerly until sometime around 2001 or even slightly more recent, so those FMIC era instruments are basically Westerly era. I think it was after the move to Corona that the quality is questioned. I've never played one, so can't speak to that personally.

Brad

[backliner]

My comment was mostly related to the FMIC era (Westury, Corona, Tacoma, whatever). They are a bit newer instruments and likely structurally not in need of a neck reset. The Savoys I've seen (and owned) definitely had good neck angles.

I believe the Westerly made Guilds were great guitars and all were lacquer finished, vs the poly that FMIC favors (though under auspices of Fender, the last Westerly made Guilds held to the tradition of lacquer).

I HAVE seen quite shallow neck angles on the newer X-160 and X-170 models, but they start quite shallow angled to begin with even when new. The Savoys were a bit different in that regard, having more angle to begin with.

I mentioned seeing old X-500's etc in person ( Westerly made) that seemed due for resets, though many old Guilds are fine. Again: just releating to the play before buying thing.

The op was saying Guild "sight unseen" would be a better bet than used Heritage, which I partially agree with, given my experience with Heritage and Guilds (I'd actually recommend playing first anytime ANY guitar, but given a return policy it might be worth it on a deal).

The Guilds I've owned that were built under the auspices of FMIC either Westery, Corona, or Tacoma, seemed to me to be carrying on the Guild tradition (except for the lacquer finishes).

I have owned similiar model Guilds made in Hoboken NJ, Westerly (of several eras), Corona, and Tacoma, and except for the finish I was happy with all of them. Yes I prefer vintage instruments when I can get them without being skinned, but I have experienced no "decline" in quality: just little differences in feel: era to era (sometimes for the better!).

[Steve Z]

backliner, Good information. I did not know the different finish processes between the two owners.


Cheers,
Steve

[backliner]

Originally Posted by Steve Z

...the different finish processes between the two owners...

I actually never liked the sticky lacquer feel necks get while they're still off-gassing during slow curing process. I spray them with FingerEase until they "break in," which can take a couple years sometimes.

Arguably, poly finishes probably protect better, but are harder to touch up and can blanket the acoustic response.

I love the patina an old checked lacquer finish gets, and if I'm paying good money for a traditional archtop with market value I'd just as soon it was lacquer. But poly is actually easier to live with for me.

The "Westerly chic" is mostly perception and buzz words to me, but don't try telling that to a REAL traditionalist!

'Scuse me while I go practice on my plastic/poly finished Ibanez cheapo...

[jazzrat]

I just sold a superb Guild X-170 and kept a Heritage 575.
I loved everything about it except....the skinny vintage frets and the fretboard radius....must have been 20" or so. It felt classical guitar flat.
This was a '96. Not sure how typical that is. I would definitely own another
as long as the frets and radius were a little more normal.
The 575 is excellent but not a better guitar than the Guild.

One caveat....Guilds, especially 170's, are known for a very shallow neck angle which can lead to set up problems. Mine
was fine with the stock bridge but changing to a Tuneomatic which is usually taller was not an option.

[Steve Z]

Originally Posted by jazzrat

I just sold a superb Guild X-170 and kept a Heritage 575.
I loved everything about it except....the skinny vintage frets and the fretboard radius....must have been 20" or so. It felt classical guitar flat.
This was a '96. Not sure how typical that is. I would definitely own another
as long as the frets and radius were a little more normal.
The 575 is excellent but not a better guitar than the Guild.

One caveat....Guilds, especially 170's, are known for a very shallow neck angle which can lead to set up problems. Mine
was fine with the stock bridge but changing to a Tuneomatic which is usually taller was not an option.

Jazzrat, Great comments based on your immediate experience. Thanks.


Cheers,
Steve

[jazzrat]

Thanks Steve,
I actually thought long and hard about having it planned and refretted but
in the end decided against it.

[gpower]

Great thread. I'm looking at and considering a trade for a Heritage H-555 Custom Shop. Part of the deal, going the other way is a '77 Ibanez 2619.