Best under $2,000 jazz guitar

[David Pugh]

OK folks, here goes:

I am retired and having not played guitar for years I spent this past year trying to make some progress on re-teaching myself to play. I bought a Les Paul look alike ( Agile - Dauntless model ). The quality on this instrument is superb and my experience with Rondo Music was very pleasant. I bought it because I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the Les Paul and because the price was ridiculously low. The only problem I have with the Agile is that it is extremely heavy. I'll keep it to play rock and blues on but it's just too heavy for everyday use.

I've been looking at a wide range of hollow body and semi-hollow body jazz guitars and I'm still stuck in the same place I was a year ago. I have not looked at Aria and Samick but I've looked at just about everything else. For awhile I was keen on the Kingpin II, but I've since looked at one and I wasn't particularly impressed with either the sound of the finish. I've been a woodworker for over 30 years. Godin calls this a French polish finish. What a joke.

Anyway, I'm going to buy a new hollow body or semi-hollow body jazz box this year. I've got up to $2,000 to spend. I'm a very thrifty person and I don't mind spending the big bucks (for me $2000 is big bucks) on a guitar but I want the best instrument that I can get for the money.

So here's the challenge: What is the best $2,000 or less jazz guitar on the market. Please don't come back and tell me that for only $1,000 more I can get this or that. $2,000 is the limit and I feel certain that I can get a good instrument for that price.

Let me hear from you all.

Thanks

David Pugh
Bryan, Texas

[musicalbodger]

Hi David,
Try and find a second hand Heritage. Great guitars, fine quality and a low resale price. Beats the competition into the ground.

This is from a professional, quality wood worker of 35+ years experience who is just about to do exactly what I suggest you do.

Good luck.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

It's a personal question, but if I had $2,000 to spend on a guitar (and I don't!) I would get an Eastman El Rey (the single pickup ER1). It's a small-bodied, hollow body guitar without f-holes (I'm tired of fighting feedback with my big old doghouse of an archtop!). JHale has an ER3 for $1,500.

[musicalbodger]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

It's a personal question, but if I had $2,000 to spend on a guitar (and I don't!) I would get an Eastman El Rey (the single pickup ER1). It's a small-bodied, hollow body guitar without f-holes (I'm tired of fighting feedback with my big old doghouse of an archtop!). JHale has an ER3 for $1,500.

BDLH, the Heritage h575 isn't that big, it's only 2.75" thick and doesn't have a big feedback problem because of this — apparently.

[spiral]

Fun search. Try this to get started (GBase archtop price range search):
http://www.gbase.com/stores/gear/gea...=1&tf=1&ti0=13

Do you care about the acoustic sound or are you primarily using an amp? Two pickups? etc.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

BDLH, the Heritage h575 isn't that big, it's only 2.75" thick and doesn't have a big feedback problem because of this — apparently.

(Your post snuck in before mine and I didn't see it at first.) No argument from me -- I think Heritages are excellent guitars, and I feel a little guilty picking a Chinese guitar (Eastman). Of the Heritages, I like the Sweet 16 even more -- single pickup and the longer scale (25 1/2).

But the El Rey has a size I'm really leaning toward: 2" thick and only a 14" lower bout.

[X-500]

Hi David,


Here's a repost from me for the "Perfect Jazz Guitar" Of course, rule out the X-700, but you never know, you might get lucky. One of the members of "Lets Talk Guild" bought one for $1,600.00!!!!


Edit: Shoot! I didn't read you post carefully, you are looking for new. The prices below are for used. However, you won't have any problems finding these specimens in A++ condition. I can attest to that. My X-170 looked as if it came off the showroom for $1,500. The same for my X-500 for $1,900.00.

GUILDS, GUILDS, GUILDS!

Of course I'm partial to Guilds because I own four, but they are remarkably well made American made guitars that are undervalued (especially compared to Gibson's prices) - not to mention the sound is what you would expect out of a jazz box. Especially the X-500 and the X-700. The X-500 sounding closer to a ES-175. The X-700 has a more resonant/woody souind. The X-170 resists feedback due to the soundpost applied by Guild under the bridge (inside).

All prices are for used specimens as Fender shut down Guild electric hollowbody production a few years after moving the hollowbody production to Corona, CA. The suggestions below are laminated and the X-700 is of a carved top construction. Guild made their premier carved top archtop, the Artist Award, but I cant comment on it since I don't own one - yet . Other archtops were made by Guild too: Starfires I, II, III, IV, V. And other X and CE series that were made pre-Westerly (Hoboken, NJ). They would make fine jazz sounding guitars as well, though again, I cant comment since I haven't playe/own them.

They still make Guild archtops in their custom shop however (quite expensive though).

Here are some great Guild jazz box examples (all have 24 3/4 scale necks) -
X-150D Savoy: Guild X150D Savoy - Westerly Guild Guitars
$900 - $1,500

X-170 Manhattan: Guild X170 Manhattan - Westerly Guild Guitars
$1,200 - $1,500

X-500 Paladin: Guild X500 Paladin - Westerly Guild Guitars
$1,900 - $2,500

X-700 Stuart: Guild X700 Stuart - Westerly Guild Guitars
$ 2,500 +


A couple of my examples:

_______MY X-170 ______________MY X-500_______

[Steve Z]

My opinion for the last 10 or so years has been to only buy used unless I get a fantastic (read as dealer cost) deal and the new guitar was exactly what I wanted. I avoid buying new if possible so that I can buy a much better instrument than if it was new. Take a look at some used prices of archtops and you will see what I mean.

Some great sources of finding used gear:

http://ebay.com (of course)

The Gear Page - Powered by vBulletin (Scroll down to the buy and sell section. Not many archtops, but when they do show up they are usually very nicely priced. You need to register for the forum to see the posts)

Music Instruments | Craigslist Search (search all of Craigslist music gear with one click of the mouse!... I love this website, though my piggy bank hates it )


My recommendation ( and as BigDaddyLoveHandles rightly pointed out, it's a personal decision... based on body size, neck length, nut width, neck size/thickness, etc.)... all used of course to be able to buy for $2000 or less...

Heritage archtop (several great models with used prices averaging $1400-2000+)

Benedetto Bambino (used averages around $1850)

Guild x-500 (used average around $1500-2000)

Guild x-170 (used average around $1100-1500)

Eastman models (used average around $800-1300)

... and the list goes on


Again, there are many variables that go into a guitar being right for you and only you can tell what fits... body size, neck length, nut width, neck size/thickness, etc.

Caution on headstock weight... be sure to play a guitar with strap on if you play standing up at all and see if the guitar is neck heavy meaning as soon as you let go of the neck the headstock instantly starts diving toward the ground. Some D'Angelico models and the Eastman El Rey are rather unbalanced in this way. That stated, the Jeff Hale http://www.jhalemusic.com has a method of counterbalancing the El Rey balance issue so that it is resolved.


Cheers,
Steve

[Steve Z]

Looks like Alex (X-500) was doing some big typing as I was typing...

I agree completely with his comment, but also add in Heritage as a possibility. Play them both if you can and see which works best for you.


Cheers,
Steve

[X-500]

Originally Posted by Steve Z

Looks like Alex (X-500) was doing some big typing as I was typing...

Hell no man, I cheated and copied and pasted an older post!

Great minds ...

[musicalbodger]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

(Your post snuck in before mine and I didn't see it at first.) No argument from me -- I think Heritages are excellent guitars, and I feel a little guilty picking a Chinese guitar (Eastman). Of the Heritages, I like the Sweet 16 even more -- single pickup and the longer scale (25 1/2).

But the El Rey has a size I'm really leaning toward: 2" thick and only a 14" lower bout.

No problemo, Big Daddy. Yeah, the Sweet 16 is a beautiful instrument but there aren't that many around s/hand in the UK and at £5K list price over here (£3.5K for a good() deal), — too much money for mere mortals.

[JohnW400]

@X-500

Back in 1978 I had a choice between a blond ES-175 and and a Guild , either an X500 or an X700. I can't remember which. Both were used.

The deciding factor was $$$. The Gibson was $400 and the Guild was $500

The Guild was clearly the better guitar.

[nic]

I just came across an Ibenez George Benson small body for $1600. If I had 2K to spend that would be the guitar I'd buy.

(It's in Michigan)

[Steve Z]

Originally Posted by JohnW400

... The deciding factor was $$$. The Gibson was $400 and the Guild was $500

The Guild was clearly the better guitar.

Isn't it funny how the logo on the headstock can make a guitar much more expensive, but not necessarily be a better instrument?... just an observation

Originally Posted by nic

I just came across an Ibenez George Benson small body for $1600. If I had 2K to spend that would be the guitar I'd buy.

(It's in Michigan)

I have heard many great things about the Ibanez George Benson, though I have never played one. One day perhaps...



Cheers,
Steve

[bkdavidson]

I would have to cast my vote for a Gibson ES-135. I know it's a semi, but it has a great airy, open tone to it. I've started a duo with a trumpet player and am continuously blown away by how 'traditional' of a sound it gets, and I don't even have flatwounds on it! You can usually find a couple on ebay for way under $2000; sometimes under $1000. Don't think just 'cause it costs less it's not as nice. I've had mine for a year and a half and still pretty much only put it down to sleep.

[C.A.JO.]

Me personally.... I have to play a Les Paul! I use a Gibson Les Paul Custom, and I get great jazz-tone out of it. In the future I want to find a used ES-175 or ES-335, but I'm waiting for the right fit.

But since you want a hollow-body, I'll recommend a used Ibanez GB-10. You can get those used for about $ 2,000. It's a quality guitar with a resale-value, and you're not breaking the bank.

If you don't care about resale-value... I'd look into Eastman's models.

[JohnW400]

Originally Posted by nic

I just came across an Ibenez George Benson small body for $1600. If I had 2K to spend that would be the guitar I'd buy.

(It's in Michigan)

Another good guitar. I bought one used in 1985 for $500 from Guitar Trader in Red Bank NJ. I later sold it in 1993 to put towards a used L5 (for $2000)

Seeing the market these days I wish I had held onto every single guitar I ever owned.

[LarryL]

I have a Heritage H535 which is the most elegant looking and sounding electric I've ever owned. It is similar to the Gibson ES335; a semi-hollow with laminated top, back, and sides. It sells new for just over $2000.

It is, however, no lightweight. The H575 is a full hollow, all solid woods, and far lighter. A used one of these would be my choice to fit your criteria.

Heritage guitars are a throwback to old fashioned American quality craftsmanship. Made in Kalamazoo Michigan at the old Gibson shop by artisans who learned their craft almost a half century ago.

[David Pugh]

Spiral:

I plan to use it amplified. I really don't care if it has one or two pickups. However, I must say that aesthetically I'm drawn to the single floating pickup models. Thanks, David

[spiral]

Originally Posted by David Pugh

Spiral: I plan to use it amplified. I really don't care if it has one or two pickups. However, I must say that aesthetically I'm drawn to the single floating pickup models. Thanks, David

I hate to be that guy, but that is such a huge playing field, you almost have to play some things to get a feel for what you want... at least to get started. There are hundreds of good guitars in that price range that are great. If it were me and i wanted a primarily electric guitar i would get something with a set-in pickup. That way you could pick from any pickup currently being made since i think that has a bigger impact than the tonewoods and body (within reason, not saying a Telecaster sounds the same as a D'Angelico). I would consider that a much more flexible platform for experimenting. Floating pickups are useful if you love the acoustic sound of the instrument, but the magnets are obviously smaller, and swapping pickups is like redoing the plumbing every time. I can't sway you in the aesthetics department though. If you like the look, pursue it.

You've gotten a bunch of good suggestions so far. From my limited time on this board it seems like many people are electric-focused, so you are in good hands.

[NSJ]

For that price, I'd check out, if I can find one, a USED Heritage Sweet 16

[Silentwiz]

If possible, you have GOT to check out Eastman. I am officially a believer!

[heavyblues]

Eastman T-146sm. It's semi-hollow and has the tone of a full hollowbody. Lovely guitar, looks great too!

[snoskier63]

I would have to agree with the Guild fans out here. I own a Guild X-170 that I got for $1270. You can probably get an X-500 or a CE-100D for under $2000 as well if you are not in a hurry. I also own a Bluesbird, and have owned other Guilds over the years including a CE-100D and Starfire V. The workmanship on all of the Guilds I have owned was flawless, and the sound is the best I have found for the money. Unfortunately, the CE-100D and Starfire V went to cover my college tuition nearly 30 years ago, but after all these years of playing other guitars including Gibson (acoustic), Gretsch (6120-JR), Fender (strat/tele), Yamaha (SBG2000) and Ibanez (GB-12), I have returned to Guild for good. Best of luck in your search for "your" perfect jazz box.

[Silentwiz]

oh yeah... you can't beat a decent telecaster. no nonsense and focus on the music

[fws6]

From what you are posting, I wonder, did you only look at new guitars ? Does it have to be new ?

Of course a lot of the vintage stuff is hyped (I d take a new Strat over a 1970s example immediately) but IMHO new solid wood acoustics guitars often sound a bit stiff. And 2000 will also buy you a lot in a vintage guitar, especially an Epiphone Devon or maybe Triumph can be found under 2k and is unbeatable in tone (and a much widser investment with regards to possible resale value).

See for instance EPIPHONE DEVON (1951) - Elderly Instruments price is 1800 and perhaps a bit negotiable so you'll still have left for a floater pickup http://cgi.ebay.com/Armstrong-Side-Mount-Jazz-Guitar-Adj-Polepeices-Pickup-/320607686656 and some setup work.


Sure it will have finish checking, scratches and dings. But it will also have a very loud and fine jazz tone that is impossible to find in any new guitar. And old world craftmanship; brazilian fingerboards, nitro lacquer top handcarved from a 1 inch slab of spruce, ...

I dont mean to say that new guitars are bad. Newer Guilds (laminate electrics), and Heritage (solid) guitars that I played were fine instruments, and I have never had the opportunity to play most of the other instruments mentioned above. But in general as labor costs rise production quality is going down. Many of the new important guitars might feature a "solid top" - but these are pressed like laminates, rather than carved. Also many new guitars that have nitro finishes dont tell you what is underneath the nitro ! They still coat the guitars in plastic lacquers before applying the nitro otherwise it takes much too long to decently finish the guitars in a factory setting. These guitars sound a bit tonally dead when new and will never open up well after playing.

[bass2man]

Keep looking for a good used guitar...For $2000 there are a lot of options out there.
I just bought my secong Triggs jazz box. The first one was a 16 in model with built in Tom Holmes HB..those pickups are $300 a piece...and got the guitar for $1700. My second Triggs is a 17 in model with Kent Armstrong floating pickup...$1800.

These are hand made in the USA by JIm Triggs, who was the manager of tehGibson Custom shop for many years before going out on his own in 1998.

I also have 1977 es-175..bought it for $1400...

Nothing against the Chinese stuff but really, I dont think they hold up against the Gibson or Triggs IMHO... certainly not in re=sale value.

Heritage is great..Friend of mine has some Guilds..great guitars, but I am not a big fan of the Filtertron pickups..too bright for my ears.

Keep looking on the web/eBay...there are some really good deals out there...

[fws6]

"some Guilds..great guitars, but I am not a big fan of the Filtertron pickups"

Mixing up Guild and Gretsch here ? The FilterTron is a Gretsch pickup with very low impendance, and indeed intended to sound a bit in between a single coil and a humbucker

The Guild jazz guitars usually feature a HB (Jimmy D'Aquisto used Guild HBs on most of his electrics....)

[bass2man]

Sorry..my mistake....you are correct.

He has a guild x-150 and a Gretsch....His Guild sounds pretty jazzy...

[hurricanebob]

Boy, if I had two grand to spend...man, oh man. Your problem is that there will be too many choices, as exemplified by the listings here. So:

*where do you live? Do you have shops that you can try sampling all of this candy?

*Playing is the key. Do NOT buy a guitar without playing it. Do NOT be seduced by the headstock, the pictures, your guitarlust. Play it. If you can't play it, don't buy it. No exceptions.

*If you want a full hollow body guitar, Heritage, Guild, and Eastman are going to be the leading contenders in your price range. If you want a semi-hollow (a market I don't know as well), then Guild, Eastman, Heritage, and Ibanez willl all be contenders, along with some obscure interesting alternatives (e.g., the old Hagstrom Viking, a *Swedish* guitar!).

*I assume you have a good amp. It is a whole different can of worms, amps, but it matters. If you can't buy the amp you want anytime soon, then play the guitars you're looking at with your amp. Yup, you gotta drag the heavy sonuvabitch to the store and plug it in. Remember, you'll be playing it on your amp at home, not the one in the store the crafty salesperson plugged it into.

Finally: have fun. You have a problem most of us wish we had.