inexpensive gypsy jazz or parlour guitar - recommendations

Bill C · #1 09-20-2010, 10:01 AM

I'm planning to buy an inexpensive acoustic guitar I can leave lying around the house for ad hoc practicing/noodling. I was thinking of a parlour guitar, but as I pretty much exclusively play jazz, I'm also considering a Maccaferri gypsy jazz guitar. I'm not looking for an archtop/jazzbox - as this is a guitar solely for informal playing I'd like something different!

Is there anything with good sound and playability in the £250 (250 UK pounds) range?

thanks

Bill

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #2 09-20-2010, 11:07 AM

It's going to be Chinese for that price. I was going to suggest a Larrivee: Larrivee > Instruments > Acoustics > P05 but that clearly is out of your budget. (It's a 5 series parlour guitar -- they've built them in the less expensive 3 series, too, but I didn't see one listed.) Just posting it to tantalise you!

On parlour guitars: I like their tones - clear and bell-like, but they tend to have a shorter scale (24" here) and the neck joins the body at the 12th fret.

mr. beaumont · #3 09-20-2010, 11:56 AM

Gypsy jazz guitars sound best played in a "gypsy jazz" style...although they sound pretty nice fingerstyle too. But a soft touch with a pick on one, and you'll likely be saying, "where's the sound?" and "Why is there no sustain?"

There are several really nice models made by Saga, and yes they're made in China--gypsy jazz guitars are simply not made by any american major companies, and the private luthiers charge private luthier prices.

The Saga models are the Cigano (cheaper) and Gitane (more expensive)

I have a nicer Gitane (about 1K US) that's lovely, but most of what makes it better than my friend's Cigano is cosmetic (the other thing you get with Gitane ismore choices) The Cig's are homely little beasts, but they sound great and have a charm of their own. Folks tend to say the D-hole model is better than the "O" as far as the Cigano's go.

Avoid, avoid, avoid the gypsy jazz guitars made by Aria and the "no namers" you can pick up on some online stores, like rondomusic. They are just made like cheap flattops, have none of the punch or volume of a gypsy jazz guitar, and basically, are just cool looking paperweights. I learned the hard way with a Cordoba Gypsy jazz guitar--dead sounding as anything (although I didn't really know it until I brought it to a jam with others)

As for parlor guitar, you can't do cheaper and nicer than a Seagull Grand. CHeck 'em out...lovely little instruments, kinda quiet, as you'd expect, but they just beg to be played fingerstyle.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #4 09-20-2010, 12:25 PM

Seagull Coastline Cedar Grand? I'm liking the specs -- It's a small body (13" lower bout) but still has Seagull's standard scale (24.84") and a 14 frets to the body neck. Looks nice!

mr. beaumont · #5 09-20-2010, 12:52 PM

That's the one.

I've almost bought one about 5 times or so in my guitar playing life. The stars never align, for some reason.

Baltar Hornbeek · #6 09-20-2010, 02:55 PM

I was gonna suggest the Seagull as well. Something about the way they put that box together. It's fit tight and tense, like convex where you wouldn't expect it. A very lively box it is.

82Benedetto · #7 09-20-2010, 03:18 PM

+1 on the Cigano D-Hole
Check out a Blueridge for the parlor guitar. My buddy has a cheap one and it sounds impressive.

janepaints · #8 09-20-2010, 04:15 PM

The Seagull Grand is nice, but I much prefer the less-expensive Art & Lutherie version, primarily because it's a 12-fret design, and so has more low-end. The Grand (I've owned two) had a pronounced upper-midrange 'clang' which irritated me after awhile. The A&L parlor is noticeably warmer-sounding. (Plus, tho I love Godin's guitars, the look of the Seagull headstock has always bothered me. The A&L headstock looks nicer to these eyes.

Though a bit pricier: the Taylor Big Baby and their new GS-mini. IMO the Big Baby is a CRAZY-good value. Sounds & plays WAY better than the pricetag would lead ya to expect.

SOME of the all-laminate Ibanez 00-size acoustics sound very good, for the pricepoint.

rabbit · #9 09-20-2010, 07:28 PM

Agree with janeP. Don't know about the A & Lutherie but I had a
a Seagull grand & it was too heavy for it's size to sound good.

Hohner is importing some budget guitars that might be worth a look.
Some years back they were distributing the best dreadnaught
you could buy in the $229 price range. The new ones are said
to be intonation-improved also.

I've a Larivee P-09. I am a privileged guy.

ES125er · #10 09-21-2010, 12:17 AM

I agree that the Cigano guitars are cool, but they go for 400 GBP, so you'll have to go used.

On the parlour front, I would check out Farida guitars. M2N S, M5, M26, O-16...

I'm not sure about the price of this model (indications found on a forum suggest 225 GBP), but here is a video of Anton Goudsmit playing a Farida O-16:

YouTube Video

Bill C · #11 09-21-2010, 12:54 AM

thanks guys - plenty to check out there!

cosmic gumbo · #12 09-21-2010, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill C

I'm planning to buy an inexpensive acoustic guitar I can leave lying around the house for ad hoc practicing/noodling.

Maccaferri plastic guitar

jazzbow · #13 09-21-2010, 03:17 PM

Don't buy a cheapo gypsy guitar. As Mr Beaumont says, dead sound! Parlour's a safe bet.

mr. beaumont · #14 09-21-2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzbow

Don't buy a cheapo gypsy guitar. As Mr Beaumont says, dead sound! Parlour's a safe bet.

Just depends on what you define as cheapo--the Ciganos I played were very usable as a viable gypsy jazz instrument, and pretty darn cheap IMHO.

pineapple · #15 09-21-2010, 06:12 PM

Here is mine!

Not a gypsy, only a nice, old acoustic.

jazzbow · #16 09-25-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple

Here is mine!

Not a gypsy, only a nice, old acoustic.

Nice guitar, how does it compare??

'Just depends on what you define as cheapo--the Ciganos I played were very usable as a viable gypsy jazz instrument, and pretty darn cheap IMHO.'

When I say cheapo my experience might explain that thought.

I had £1500 ($2200) to blow on some guitar stuff, top of the list was a gypsy jazz guitar and a deluxe reverb. I needed a reference point for the sound of a selmer styled guitar with which to make an educated guess for the sound I was looking for. Off I trots to Andys guitar workshop in London and found a Le Voi selmer! 'Twang!' went the strings and 'Hmm!' went the shell like. So sometime later that day there I was in 'guitar you like' emporium strumming another selmer, I think it was a cigano or some such. Well the sound was close, so there I am back at Andys for another strum on the Le Voi for thinking time. Anyhoo here I am 9 years down the line with a peach of a Le Voi and still hankering for a deluxe reverb, ahwell.....
Further to the question, I think something like a parlour guitar in the house would be far better than a gypsy guitar, a good parlour would be reasonable cost compared to a selmer purely on the basis that there are many manufacturers of parlour guitars than gypsy guitars. The economics of tooling up for a different shape and sound in production terms would need a decent turnover of goods to justify investment...(oh my head hurts..). So, parlour x mass interest = much choice / selmer x specialist style = limited choice.

pineapple · #17 09-25-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzbow

Nice guitar, how does it compare??

'Just depends on what you define as cheapo--the Ciganos I played were very usable as a viable gypsy jazz instrument, and pretty darn cheap IMHO.'

When I say cheapo my experience might explain that thought.

I had £1500 ($2200) to blow on some guitar stuff, top of the list was a gypsy jazz guitar and a deluxe reverb. I needed a reference point for the sound of a selmer styled guitar with which to make an educated guess for the sound I was looking for. Off I trots to Andys guitar workshop in London and found a Le Voi selmer! 'Twang!' went the strings and 'Hmm!' went the shell like. So sometime later that day there I was in 'guitar you like' emporium strumming another selmer, I think it was a cigano or some such. Well the sound was close, so there I am back at Andys for another strum on the Le Voi for thinking time. Anyhoo here I am 9 years down the line with a peach of a Le Voi and still hankering for a deluxe reverb, ahwell.....
Further to the question, I think something like a parlour guitar in the house would be far better than a gypsy guitar, a good parlour would be reasonable cost compared to a selmer purely on the basis that there are many manufacturers of parlour guitars than gypsy guitars. The economics of tooling up for a different shape and sound in production terms would need a decent turnover of goods to justify investment...(oh my head hurts..). So, parlour x mass interest = much choice / selmer x specialist style = limited choice.

My guitar is a Eko El Gaucho made in Italy in the seventies. It is not a real Selmer copy, as you can see, even if the oval hole, the bridge and the slotted headstock could refer to gypsy style. I use the guitar, and the guitar works, as a normal acoustic (with limited sustain), even if sometime I play Nuages instead of some old David Crosby' ballad. Go ahead with your parlour!

henry b · #18 09-26-2010, 10:17 AM

The one I bought was from The really useful music co on ebay , the one with the twin sound ports .

bluetone · #19 11-21-2010, 09:10 AM

Reviving this thread ....

I'm getting more interested in gypsy jazz music, but until I can find (or afford) the right one, I'm thinking about getting something along the lines of mid-to-high level Takamine cutaway acoustic. Seems like you get a little more bang for the buck. And as far as I know, these guitars play the same notes as an authentic gypsy jazz guitar! Yamaha, Ibanez, Martin, Taylor, also make comparable guitars.

Soco · #20 11-21-2010, 09:32 AM

Lot's of good and inexpensive gipsy guitars out there. A yamaha, ibanez or takamine won't give you that sounds.

mr. beaumont · #21 11-21-2010, 09:41 AM

bluetone, if you're going to spend that much on a tak, you really owe it to yourself to check out the gitanes. Very high quality, very good sound--as "authentic" as you can get for the price. If you're truly interested in gypsy jazz, the sound is there--and you won't notice the shortcoming of a flattop for this genre until you jam with someone who has a GJ guitar...then you'll get GAS pangs so bad you'll be looking for music shops while driving home that day...

(gratuitous, GAS inducing pics of my DG-320)

I'm not one to subscribe to the "you need this to play this" philosophy (one of my favorite "jazz" guitarsis a telecaster), but gypsy jazz guitars go against my way of thinking...a set of argies, a fat pick, an hour or two with dennis chang's videos on youtube (or john jorgenson's great books), and you hear it.

Plus, it's also a fun guitar to take to my gibson-lovin' buddy's house and watch it drown out his beoved jumbos...

bluetone · #22 11-21-2010, 10:10 AM

OK, you folks are making convincing arguments.

I saw a used Gitane DG255 for $450 recently. Good deal? Is that a decent model?

82Benedetto · #23 11-21-2010, 11:52 AM

Go for the Cigano instruments. You can't go wrong.

mr. beaumont · #24 11-21-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluetone

OK, you folks are making convincing arguments.

I saw a used Gitane DG255 for $450 recently. Good deal? Is that a decent model?

Pretty darn good price. Offer 'em $400 and see what happens.

Like 82Benedetto says, the Ciganos are the best bang for the buck...used, you can go $300 or less. What you get with Gitane is more features (for example, I wanted a long scale D-hole, and Cigano doesn't have that)

Like I said before though, I've heard more good things about the Cigano D-hole than the petit bouche, so that Gitane might be an even better deal...

bluetone · #25 11-21-2010, 06:38 PM

Thanks, Mr. Beaumont

yea, I think I could get a better price on the DG255 ... this one was at Guitar Center.

Thanks to all ...

I'll probably keep my eyes out for one of the low-end Ciganos. I like the idea of starting small, beating the heck out of that thing, and then rewarding myself with a higher-end guitar at some point (if that point ever comes).

gianluca · #26 11-22-2010, 03:39 AM

hi
if you are in europe and if you may be interested in a MAURICE DUPONT guitar and if you find 700,00eur enough inexpensive for it, well, I'm selling a 2005 NOMADE oval hole equipped with BIGTONE pickup.

nado64 · #27 11-22-2010, 06:09 AM

I've a Gerome, bought on ebay 300 euros.
It hasn't Selmer look, but it has a very very nice sound for django style.

rafapak · #28 12-28-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

bluetone, if you're going to spend that much on a tak, you really owe it to yourself to check out the gitanes. Very high quality, very good sound--as "authentic" as you can get for the price. If you're truly interested in gypsy jazz, the sound is there--and you won't notice the shortcoming of a flattop for this genre until you jam with someone who has a GJ guitar...then you'll get GAS pangs so bad you'll be looking for music shops while driving home that day...

(gratuitous, GAS inducing pics of my DG-320)

I'm not one to subscribe to the "you need this to play this" philosophy (one of my favorite "jazz" guitarsis a telecaster), but gypsy jazz guitars go against my way of thinking...a set of argies, a fat pick, an hour or two with dennis chang's videos on youtube (or john jorgenson's great books), and you hear it.

Plus, it's also a fun guitar to take to my gibson-lovin' buddy's house and watch it drown out his beoved jumbos...

DG 320 is cool because it has narrower neck when compared to gitane D 500.

bluetone · #29 12-28-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafapak

DG 320 is cool because it has narrower neck when compared to gitane D 500.

Thanks, now that Christmas is over, I'm beginning a serious search for one of these guitars. Good tip about the neck, I wasn't sure I'd like the wider neck. I prefer to buy used guitars, although I realize the new ones are relative cheap.

mr. beaumont · #30 12-28-2010, 10:15 PM

Yeah, it's narrower than the 2" width of some D hole gypsy jazz guitars.

It's still a wide neck--haven't measured it, but it's a good 1.75", i think.

It's also a very deep profile--a great neck if you dig the necks on some vintage jazz guitars.

If you like a faster, skinnier neck, a jam partner of mine has a Lulo Reinhardt model that's lovely, and features a slim profiled, almost electric guitar like neck.

I'm a big fan of my DG-320--it's a very well made instrument and not very expensive, and it really has that "sound."