Gretsch White Falcon- for Jazz???

[princeplanet]

Anyone? Maybe for more of the aggressive, "Rockabilly" side of Jazz, sure, but can it do the mellow thang?

[ES125er]

Sure, why not?

If Brad Shepik can do the mellow thing with HiLoTrons, I don't see any reason why you could not do the same with a White Falcon. You have the choice between various types of pickups, don't you?

Beware, though, if you play a White Falcon people might expect you to dress like 70's Elvis.

[Archie]

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Anyone? Maybe for more of the aggressive, "Rockabilly" side of Jazz, sure, but can it do the mellow thang?

YouTube Video

[Drifter]

'nuff said. Nice post, Archie!

[Gibson L4CES]

I believe that Mary Osborne played a White Falcon.

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by Archie

Yeah, I like, smooth but with that little twang....

[Archie]

I don't know of any other jazz guitarists who played Gretsches (although Chet Atkins got a pretty jazzy sound), but if people can get good jazz sounds out of Strats, Teles, and P90s, there's no reason why a Gretsch wouldn't work. The Filtertrons are bumbuckers, after all.

[cutnstuf]

I have a G5120 and put a set of chrome flats on it. It sounds like crap! I'm going back to nickel wound.

[ES125er]

Originally Posted by ES125er

If Brad Shepik can do the mellow thing with HiLoTrons...

You can hear him on his Myspace page. As far as I can tell, he's always been using a Gretsch Tenessean with HiLoTrons (single coils).

[C.A.JO.]

My backup guitar is a gretsch-style-like guitar from Samick (model JZ-233).

I bought an upgraded second-hand version with Kent Armstrong pickups, flatwound .12's, and gretsch knobs on it, and I can dial in a very fat but crisp jazz tone. I love this guitar, and some nights I've used it as my main guitar instead of usual Gibson Les Paul custom.

I would consider buying a White Falcon!

Try it, and see if you like it!

[Little Jay]

Sal Salvador played a Gretsch:


And the Dutch guitarist Anton Goudsmit plays one:


And - again Dutch ;-) - Arthur Ebeling:


And they sound pretty darn jazzy to my ears!

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Anyone? Maybe for more of the aggressive, "Rockabilly" side of Jazz, sure, but can it do the mellow thang?

Brad Shepik plays a Gretsch and can get a really mellow jazz tone.

PJ

[shoome]

In my opinion there are no 'rules' about guitars not being "jazz-conform". I'd say go to your local store and test it! If you like the sound, go for it... cause that's the only thing that matters... It's the sound YOU want to have, so it's your decision if it's mellow enough for you.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to bash on all the other opinions mentioned in the thread here... they're great and it shows you, that it IS possible to get mellow tones from Gretsch's, but the important thing is, if the sound fits your style, your taste...

(did I already say 'you' ? )

[princeplanet]

So, of all the Gretschs, which do you guys think might be the best candidate for all round Jazz duties? btw, for some things I like the nasally twangin' tone, but would like to switch to a smooth chord tone pretty easily....

[Archie]

Basically, 6xxx series Gretsches use three kinds of pickups, Filtertrons, HiLotrons and Dynasonics. Dynas and HiLos are single-coils, so you get a more twangy sound than the Filters, which are humbuckers. Dynas were the pickups that gave Duane Eddy his signature twang back in the 50s and 60s, and HiLos were in the guitar George Harrison used in the Beatles from about 1963-65; for me, the most representative sound of HiLos are in the Animals' "House of the Rising Sun".

Those are probably not what you think of when you think "jazz tone".

The iconic Chet Atkins guitar is the hollow-body 6120; that's the one Brian Setzer gets his twangy sound out of. That's probably the one you should try, if you can find one in a shop. A similar, less-expensive model is called the "Tennessee Rose"; older models were called "Tennesseans"; a slightly fancier model is called the "Country Gentleman." The White Falcon is the top of the line model. It's a bit too fancy for me. I think you'd have to be Elvis to pull it off (although Steven Stills and Neil Young are some famous players who use them).

Nowadays there's a less expensive line of Gretsches made in Korea, the 5xxx line. They don't use the pickups described above. They have a humbucker called a "Gretchbucker". Most of the folks on the Gretsch sites replace the Gretschbuckers with Filtertrons, or TV Jones pickups (custom-made Filtertrons). The Gretschbuckers sound a lot like standard Gibson pickups. I've tried a guitar with them, and think they sound pretty good.

There are some solid-body Gretsches called Jets, that look a lot like Les Pauls, but sound a bit twangier, but they're probably not what you're looking for. Think Malcolm Young from ACDC.

[Gibson L4CES]

I believe that the first 7 string guitar for George Van Eps was made by Gretsch. Bucky Pizzarelli used a 7 string Gretsch for a long time.

[David B]

Jakob Bro (Paul Motian band, Tomasz Stanko etc) has used a White Falcon.
YouTube - Chinatown

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by Archie

Basically, 6xxx series Gretsches use three kinds of pickups, Filtertrons, HiLotrons and Dynasonics. Dynas and HiLos are single-coils, so you get a more twangy sound than the Filters, which are humbuckers. Dynas were the pickups that gave Duane Eddy his signature twang back in the 50s and 60s, and HiLos were in the guitar George Harrison used in the Beatles from about 1963-65; for me, the most representative sound of HiLos are in the Animals' "House of the Rising Sun".

Those are probably not what you think of when you think "jazz tone".

The iconic Chet Atkins guitar is the hollow-body 6120; that's the one Brian Setzer gets his twangy sound out of. That's probably the one you should try, if you can find one in a shop. A similar, less-expensive model is called the "Tennessee Rose"; older models were called "Tennesseans"; a slightly fancier model is called the "Country Gentleman." The White Falcon is the top of the line model. It's a bit too fancy for me. I think you'd have to be Elvis to pull it off (although Steven Stills and Neil Young are some famous players who use them).

Nowadays there's a less expensive line of Gretsches made in Korea, the 5xxx line. They don't use the pickups described above. They have a humbucker called a "Gretchbucker". Most of the folks on the Gretsch sites replace the Gretschbuckers with Filtertrons, or TV Jones pickups (custom-made Filtertrons). The Gretschbuckers sound a lot like standard Gibson pickups. I've tried a guitar with them, and think they sound pretty good.

There are some solid-body Gretsches called Jets, that look a lot like Les Pauls, but sound a bit twangier, but they're probably not what you're looking for. Think Malcolm Young from ACDC.

Awesome reply, you rock Archie!

[nic]

Originally Posted by Archie

All this proves is that it's the player not the guitar.

[reventlov]

I used to own a White Falcon, which I used for jazz gigs - it was by far the best sounding guitar I ever owned but I had to get rid of it because it was far to heavy for my aging spine to cope with. I only ever recorded one tune with it, a version of Georgia on my Mind, with BIAB backing. If anyone is interested in having a listen to how the guitar sounded, you can download the recording from
gomm.rm.MP3

I'll leave it there for a week or so for anyone who wants it. I normally played the guitar through a Polytone Mini-brute, but the recording was done by DI-ing the guitar straight into Garageband on a Mac, with just a little reverb added.

[barrymclark]

Originally Posted by reventlov

I used to own a White Falcon, which I used for jazz gigs - it was by far the best sounding guitar I ever owned but I had to get rid of it because it was far to heavy for my aging spine to cope with. I only ever recorded one tune with it, a version of Georgia on my Mind, with BIAB backing. If anyone is interested in having a listen to how the guitar sounded, you can download the recording from
gomm.rm.MP3

I'll leave it there for a week or so for anyone who wants it. I normally played the guitar through a Polytone Mini-brute, but the recording was done by DI-ing the guitar straight into Garageband on a Mac, with just a little reverb added.

I loved it! Please tell me your name (or PM me with it) so I can attribute it to you on my iPod. It will get frequent play! Love the feel.

[reventlov]

Thanks for the kind words - check your PMs

[Lamont]

I currently use a Gretsch White Falcon (G6136 LTV to be exact), and I find that it can give a very nice smooth jazz tone; only downside is that the guitars are quite heavy, and if you're the kind of player who looks to hide behind the pianist, I would avoid it due to it's awe-inspiring good looks.

It's got a lot of low end (may need to reduce it on your amp), a very nice smooth mid, and depending on the pickup and tone selectors, a warm and subtle treble, a nice shine, or a country Twang. In my opinion, it's a pretty versatile guitar!

It's just not for the shy people!

[jmstritt]

Can a White Falcon be used for Jazz? It depends who is playing it.

[FrankLearns]

Originally Posted by princeplanet

So, of all the Gretschs, which do you guys think might be the best candidate for all round Jazz duties? btw, for some things I like the nasally twangin' tone, but would like to switch to a smooth chord tone pretty easily....

I think it is the country club (G6196). You can have them with Dynas or Filters and with or without Bigsby. They have a solid spruce top and with Flatwound strings the tone is certainly great for Jazz.

The G6120 sounds a lot more "rocky". But with the right amp settings and using the "mud switch" it also gets nicely jazzy. Check Brian Setzer on YT when he decides to go jazzy. There is a quite nice recording of "a nightingale sang in Berkeley square"

[rexi]

Here are some nice mellow jazztones played on a Gretch

Andres Thor Quartet - Innri Ró - YouTube

[Retroman1969]

That's a surprisingly dark mellow sound for a semi-hollow... And appears to have stock Gretsch pups. Nice!

[backliner]

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

I think it is the country club (G6196). You can have them with Dynas or Filters and with or without Bigsby. They have a solid spruce top and with Flatwound strings the tone is certainly great for Jazz...

Structurally, many Country Club and Falcon models share the same features: 17" body, 25.5" scalelength, and other details over the years.

I think of my Country Club as a Falcon without all the glitzey bling like gold sparkle binding, etc.

Pickups range on these models from humbucking (Filtertrons) to single coil (Dynasonic - an old DeArmond design). Dynasonic circuits include a tone control: Filtertron circuits feature a tone "switch" (aka the mud switch).

A very nice Gretsch model for dedicated jazzers would also be the Korean-made 5120 series, which has standard humbuckers (a bit generic sounding, but suitable for jazz, certainly), a laminate 16" body, and a 24.6" scale length, as well as a tone pot.

[bborzell]

If one is looking for a Jazz guitar, it might appear a bit odd to spend between $3-3.5K on a guitar that is the subject of a thread entitled "Gretsch White Falcon for Jazz?" when there are plenty of fine dedicated Jazz guitars available in the same price range.

[backliner]

Originally Posted by bborzell

If one is looking for a Jazz guitar, it might appear a bit odd to spend between $3-3.5K on a guitar that is the subject of a thread entitled "Gretsch White Falcon for Jazz?" when there are plenty of fine dedicated Jazz guitars available in the same price range.

Fair enough.

I paid a skoash under $2K for a new Country Club with a solid spruce top. The only thing I could find in its class was a USED George Benson 200 Ibanez.

I am aware of and have had The Heritage models in this range, but the Japanese workmanship won me over. And I appreciated the single coil DeArmonds in my own esoteric way.

The White Falcon is not my image of a quintessential jazz ax even if it were much cheaper, but structurally there's no reason it couln't suffice as a fine sounding jazz machine, in the right hands through the right amp.