Durability/Roadworthiness of laminate vs. solid, a real concern?

Hey guys,

I'm currently contemplating two different instruments, either an Eastman 805 / 805-7, or a Tom Painter custom (not quite set on which model, but probably a bigger one). I know that those are two fairly different instruments, but I am a bit confused as to how to continue; I currently have a Stromberg Monterey with Seth Lover PAF's (the Duncan PAF copy). I have .14 gauge flatwounds on that guitar. It produces a dark but distinct jazz sound, but is definitely in the electric realm ala Kenny Burrell or Joe Pass, that is, there is almost no acousticy tone or acoustic volume on the instrument (I have the semi-hollow model).

I am not in a position to have a ton of axes at my disposal; I have a strat, my semi, a really nice classical guitar and a good flattop steel string, but I wouldn't want 20 guitars all in the same spectrum of sounds at this point. I play mostly trio to 7 piece modern combo type stuff, and do almost entirely clean sounds. I am going to be moving to Portland or Boston within a year or two and I'd like to be able to cover a good variety of jazz styles with just 2 instruments, but the potential instability of solid tops has scared me away from the Eastman. I live in central california (40ish winters with plenty of rain, 110 in the summer), and taking an instrument which is acclimated to those conditions to Boston seems extreme if the humidity and expansion concerns in other threads are legitimate.

I read the Carved vs. Laminate thread, but I still have some semi-specific concerns... Would a 16", 17", or 18" laminate like one of the Painters get me out of the electric only sound of the SH I'm playing? I know that a floating pickup equipped solid top is a very, very different sound from what I currently have, but is a set in pickup laminate top going to be very different? I don't play with distortion, but would a laminate, for reference, like a Sadowsky Jim Hall or a 175 be able to handle Pat Martino style overdrive decently? I use a Polytone minibrute IV, and the overdrive on that is what I use to achieve that sound.

I personally like to buy USA when possible, so that's a point for the painter, especially since the guitars are in the same ballpark. I'm most concerned that the Painter might not be great for chord melody type stuff in the way that a solid topped instrument would be. Are there any painter players out there?


So basically, I guess I'm concerned about the roadworthiness and durability of the Eastman 805, and the Musical territory covered by the Painter laminate archtop. Any advice from other players on here would be appreciated.

Thanks for the time,

Chris

YouTube - Painter Archtops P-175 #1709 played acoustically

Is it a flawed assumption that almost any unamplified playing will be miked? If it isn't, this video would seem to make my concern about poor acoustic tone and volume a non-issue.

[randyc]

If "roadworthiness" = "reliability" or "product lifetime" then one needs to establish a standard (Gibson, Martin, original Epiphones, Guild are a few examples of mass-produced instruments with known reliability). There are no test methods and no analytical predictions that can establish "roadworthiness" for wooden structures. We rely on history to suggest those manufacturing techniques likely to result in good-sounding, sturdy instruments.

Note that "sturdy" and "good-sounding" do not simultaneously characterize the same instrument necessarily.

It is possible that both of the archtop manufacturers that you mention can produce a product capable of withstanding temperature and humidity changes - with routine adjustments to restore critical tuning dimensions. But we don't KNOW that because there is no historical basis. We do know that many manufacturers have produced archtop guitars for a century and more - there are many playable examples and they are not that difficult to find - in better "accoustical" condition than the day they were shipped.

Expand the question to archtop orchestral instruments and there are centuries of production experience that suggest how a long-lived wooden instrument should be constructed. However, there's no guarantee that the old-time manufacturers are still using the same methods, the same adhesives and the same wood that were used 100 years ago.

My "G" guitars have a lifetime guarantee and the company has been around for a hundred years or so. I really like many boutique manufacturers but whether they will be around when you need them is uncertain.

Good luck !

[Tom Karol]

Well, Boston is a pretty good place to find used jazz guitars - those that have stood the 'test of time' so to speak and are already acclimated to the local environment. So, you might want to wait till you get here to initiate your search.