Sight Reading Up the Neck

[chasgrav]

I have played guitar forever, but am fairly new to jazz. I'm back-tracking and learning the theory so I can learn to improvise intelligently.

I learned to sight-read in first position long ago, and can do it pretty well. I can find notes in all positions of the neck also, but not at 'sight-reading speed'.

Has anyone got good advice or tips for how to develop this skill. I'm not talking about finding the scales and modes up the neck, but actually playing melodies off a written page.

If the answer is "practice", I can accept that. But I'm hoping someone has found learning techniques to help me use my practice time wisely!

[billkath]

If you can find all the notes up and down the fretboard, and it's just not at sight reading speed-well, you've already done the hard bit. it's just speed now, and that's just practice. I've had no formal training, but wouldn't a good place to be is note where a chord sequence to a song would be on the neck, and then work off that for the melody? That'd help with not only your reading, but for when you are going to do chord melody stuff.

[chasgrav]

True, and that's the approach I'm using. What's slowing me down is that I use a number of (chord-based) positions up the neck. So I really have to slow down and think about where each note will be based on my position.

In first position, it's all just burned into memory, and requires no thought. So yes......time on the instrument.

[bako]

The guitar fingerboard mirrors itself all over and for someone who can already read in open position and 1st position I would recommend to play music that you can read in those positions in other locations. Depending on key for example if in Bb I would base my positions on the first finger starting on a scale tone on the low E string. The fingerings that start with the same finger as in 1st position will be the most similar.

3rd fret- G
5th fret- A
6th fret- Bb
8th fret- C
10th fret- D
11th fret- Eb
13th fret- F

Depending on the range of the music play at pitch whenever possible in each position. For any notes that go too low play them on the low E string.
For the higher positions also read an octave higher.

[Goofsus4]

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...ion-chart.html

Check this thread out - there are some links to diagrams that show every note on the fretboard and link it to what position that note corresponds to in standard notation. This looke like very good information for someone trying to sight read up the neck.

[TommyD]

Here is a reply I made for another thread.
This was the way I approached it. (Tal Farlow and Bill Comstock helped me.)
I figured,
1. I know all the notes on the low E string, right? (Because of all the chords we play where the low E string provides the root.)

2. We all fool around with Wes Montgomery's octave playing, right? Well, Putting your 1st finger on the low E and your ring or little finger on the D string 3 frets up gives you an octave, right? So now you know all the notes on 3 strings: the low E string, the D string, and the high E string.

3. And like everybody, your first little one-octave scale as a kid probably started on the G string and played up through the B string and the E string to the top of the one-octave scale, so you learned that 4 frets down on the G string from any E string note is the same note of that particular E-string note.

4. What's left? Notes on the A string and the B string. The A string is easy. All those chords we learn that have their root on the A string we already know, right? ....the C chord on the third fret, D on the fifth, Eb on the sixth, the F on the 8th, the G on the 10th, etc, etc, etc. They're given to you as a gift!

5. What's left? Well, as it turns out, if you use your noodle, the only string that you actually have to make a little effort to memorize is the B string! (And I'm sure we could figure out a little memory-aid here as well if we give it some thought. For example, octave playing like above will give you the B-string notes.)
All the rest have been handed to you on a silver platter!

Ancillary lesson here? Don't make things harder than they are. We all do it and it's self-defeating.
Good luck in your studies!
Tommy/

[cosmic gumbo]

You'll have to find the positions on the neck that go along with the key signatures you'll be playing, probably based on the major scale, at least. In sight reading, learning the pitches is only half the battle, the rhythmic aspect of notation is even more challenging, IMO.

[chasgrav]

Thanks, guys. Tommy, that was particularly helpful. Of course, the answer is that I already know where the notes are. I just need to be able to summon that knowledge more quickly in the heat of the moment. Thinking about the octaves and movable chord position roots really helps.

I'm practicing by reading simple melodies off the page, and NOT allowing myself to sound them out in first position.

[fumblefingers]

William Leavitt's books.

method books 2 and 3 for 5th position and higher.

reading books 1 and 2.

[Reg]

The Leavitt books are great, I like most of the material from Berklee.
With jazz open position playing is rare, most material is played between 5th and 10th positions, so get you reading chops together there first. Obviously the entire fretboard eventually. Part of the problem is certain phrases or notes sound better or different on different strings. Keep that in mind, after you get your sight reading together, that will be the next step.
I sight read very well... at gigs you usually have a few seconds to prepare,
get in position. I always first check the form...road map so I know where I'm going. Next glance at range of notes, highest, lowest, leaps, key sig. if there is one, dynamics, page turns etc... I really don't go through this process anymore... I don't need to, after a while it becomes instinct. But if you don't have these instincts, along with keeping your eyes on the music and not your guitar... you need to develop them, it's not hard...
The art of sight reading is to see where your going, not just the note or notes your playing. To be able to see ahead you need; 1) know the notes. 2) recognize the rhythms. 3) Hear the music your reading before you play it,( at least the majority) and last 4) be aware of the context your playing in,( listen to the rest of the players if there are). There are more details, but they will fall into place. The quickest way I know how to get this done is to play live... crash and burn is a great motivator. I could sugar coat all this but, any method or organizational system taught will probably get you to that point of sight reading I mentioned above, just be aware of where your going.
I could read well enough to play gigs before I went to Berklee back in the 70's, there system taught me to read jazz. I'm a fan of systems with track records. Best Reg

[gravitas]

Reading's not so hard when you really start applying yourself... I went a long time with next to no reading skills at all. Then, for a month I just got a really narrow focus on it, didn't do anything else, and it came pretty quickly.

One thing that helped with the fretboard awaress was saying and playing. Do your major scales in all 12 keys up the neck, position by position, and say the notes as you play them. Classical conditioning, really efficient way to teach yourself to recognize the notes.

The other thing is to sight sing. When you read words, it's probably not like Phonix anymore (ie, you don't have to break words down and sound out every letter individually to make it through a syllable). When you read english, you can see a word and imagine how it sounds in your head. As you read what I'm typing now, it's as if a second speaker is actually saying this sentence in your head. Reading music is the same. It's not a game of blindly reacting to the notes on the page and dropping your fingers down in time like a robot. You're supposed to *hear* the music in your head before you play the stops on your instrument. You shouldn't need to rely on a guitar at all to understand the music on the page. To sing music before you play it is a much deeper, more intuitive way to understand how a piece of music sounds than to stumble your way through it on the guitar. Takes the surprise out of sight reading a piece of music, so to speak.

Doing just those two things helped me immeasurably, I hope you can find some use for them as well.

-Al

[franamico]

Originally Posted by chasgrav

I have played guitar forever, but am fairly new to jazz. I'm back-tracking and learning the theory so I can learn to improvise intelligently.

I learned to sight-read in first position long ago, and can do it pretty well. I can find notes in all positions of the neck also, but not at 'sight-reading speed'.

Has anyone got good advice or tips for how to develop this skill. I'm not talking about finding the scales and modes up the neck, but actually playing melodies off a written page.

If the answer is "practice", I can accept that. But I'm hoping someone has found learning techniques to help me use my practice time wisely!

A very good book to learn sight reading is Melodic "Rhythms For Guitar" by William Leavitt.

Here's my approach:
Look at the page scrolling through the notes without trying to read.
Breath deeply a few times and VERY slowly start reading.
If you make a mistake, keep going...

Practice sight reading very slowly at the beginning and gradually increase the speed.
As a jazz guitarist you'll tend to also learn the melody.
Remember that your goal is practicing sight reading. So ignore the urge to stop and repeat the melody you just read...just keep going.

[bobbyatopk]

i know on classical guitar it is often done in positions. first you do pieces that can be played in first position then second position (second position is good for key of d i think)

then i think jump to 5th position. because 3 and 4 are maybe better for more unusual keys ?

any way one strategy is to find out all the notes in fith position (same as first position except with a few extra on the high e string) and randomy write them all down on manuscript paper including sharps, do a couple of pages and just sit there and read through it. not very musical but it does the trick if you wana work a certain position.