My guitar practise log--your comments and own examples please?

[elixzer]

HI, I am showing you my guitar 'practise log' which I started some days ago as you will see dates
I would love comments what people think about it, and if possible to show examples of your own if you have them. I have Googled for examples of such but all I find is like blank forms for me to fill in

I welcome all your diverse perspectives and examples of your own, thanks

" Guitar Practice

12/4/08~~ fingering first position Cmajor scale, foreward and backward. Also doing part of it with eyes closed. Both slow and faster, but not using metronome; (6 minutes);

Explored C major scale patterns up and down neck. NOT focussing on gaining speed because I think it is more important at this stage to KNOW where the patterns are; (12 mins)

I practiced from Tyler Fingerstyle part 3, first the I finger striking the high string for several minutes, and then using fingers I&M to both striker each string. I used the advanced metronome for this at 300BPMs and at times went faster than that. It felt alright, but as tension became apparent I let myself relax, and found that I had more energy for expressing fingerstyle! (over 5 mins---I only employed stopwatch in last part so am not sure exactly)

I practiced freestrokes using I&M on each string. No metronome. Trying to ring each string without ringing nearby string. Over 5 mins

Part 4 And practised plucking all 3 fingers as freestrokes, both with thumb planted, but also both thumb and fingers freestroking simultaneously and alternately, and experimenting with different volume (3 mins)

Did freestrokes with thumb and fingers with advanced metronome 140bpm for 3 mins
Part 5 Practised A min first position scale using advanced metronome 140bpms, and also trying to go faster (5 mins)

13/4/10 Fingerstyle lesson 6, did whole video, and then practised both, and then did 1st fingerstyle with advanced meteronome 100bpm over 5 minutes (notice how plucking 6th string with C chord is cool variation)
Practised 2nd fingerstle pattern. Noticed the chord change from G7 to C was difficult to trying to focus on that. 2.55 mins 100bpm (resting hand as I have been on this for quite a while!)

Practised finding notes on fretboard, C< B<D<F<E are quite easy but still struggle a little with G and A

I have been spending much time studying modes. I revisited my old thread at Jazzguitar, and am trying to understand

I recorded me playing Dm7 and then improvised D dorian over it “Now, you and your friend get really sophisticated. You learn jazz and you find out about the II-V-I progression. You are in C, so the progression is Dm7, G7, CMaj7.

Now, it turns out that D Dorian (which is a minor mode) consists of D, E, F, G, A, B, C; and, you already know that G7 (G mixolydian) is G, A, B, C, D, E, F; and Cmaj (C Ionian) is C, D, E, F, G, A, B. . . so, you can solo over your II-V-I in C using only the notes in the C Ionian scale, but starting on D for the II chord, G for the V chord, and C for the I chord. You are playing a set of modes over the II-V-I in C!

Now, this is a VERY simple explanation of how this all works, but it is a good, easy to understand, place to start. Don't try to complicate it until this basic approach makes sense to you. Find a backing track for a II-V-I in the key of C and try it out.” This is what I will be doing next lesson!

14/4/10Practicing beginning of Tyler Fingerstylepart 6, for 8 minutes, 3 mins with metronome bpm (INSIGHT—I remembered Bourassi encouraging not stopping flow with right hand and to allow fingers to respond/left hand and I felt it work!)
I LOVE the pattern at end—very Downhome Bluesy feel. I of course want to practise whole of part 6, but tomorrow I want to focus on this pattern!

Part 7 Spent a lot of time practising first part of this video till tired. Will return to it tomorrow!
I recorded a chord progression of Dm7, Cmaj7 and G& and improvised the modes D Dorian, Ionian, and G Mixolydian over them

15/4/10Practising part 6 (Fingerstyle again) with metronome at 140bpm, over 5 mins. Part 7 started practice at 140bpm and then paused stopwatch and upped it to 180, all in all 6.50 minutes (I seemed to keep up well with 180)

Learning the modes of C major scale Modes Part I - Introduction for at least hour. I feel I am understanding their patterns!
I have begun to practice the modes up and down neck to sound of pedal tones for each key. I really want though to really focus on each one. I am exploring D Dorian.

I found out about this amazing site Ricci Adams' Musictheory.net and have learnt a lot! I am tired as I have been really studying it for hours. I am up to Key Signature Calculation

16/4/10 Practising part 7 (Fingerstyle)—Really going slow, over 10 mins

17/4/10practising fingering foreward-only 1st position Cmajor scale
I started on 140 bpm, and tried to double it in spurts. Then I upped it to 180bpm, and then 220. I alternated foreward-only and also forewards and backwards. I didn’t use stopwatch at beginning so all in all about 8mins practise

I have been doing the free jazz lessons at Jazzguitar.be (Modes), and have been practising D Dorian and E Phyrgian

18/4/10 practised 1st position Cmajor scale. Started with 140bpm, and alternated with doubling speed. Then tried 180bm, and then 220bpm—all foreward-only, and for over 5mins.
Also practised Fingerstyle parts 8-11
INTERESTING scale pattern I discovered yesterday. I.e., D on2nd string 3rd fret, go 8,7, and descend till you reach root!
Started studying jazzguitar’s free guitar lessons, the Modes, and then then Chord construction for quite a while!
19/4/10Cmajor 1st position—started 140, then 180, then 220, and tried fingering the higher octave A minor scale 7.28 mins
I am studying jazzguitars’s free lessons—chord conctructions and got to here http://www.jazzguitar.be/jazz_guitar_chord_theory_4.html I discovered this most wonderful chord progression: Bm7b5 (BDFA), G7, Cmaj7, Cmajor, Fmaj7, Amin7…..?
STUDY THIS! Chord Notes & Neck Charts


"

[Gramps]

Do you play any music yet?

[billkath]

Originally Posted by Gramps

Do you play any music yet?

True.
Personally, I'l practice "songs" as much as I'll practice my scales and mode. I've a new book coming on Arps, and I plan to then spend 1/3 Arps, 1/3 scales, 1/3 songs.
When I say "songs"- sometimes that might be just chord progressions- new voicings and then using those new voicings in various progressions, so that I can learn what those progressions "sound like".

Man, Elixzer- you're practicing hard!!! Good for you-but remember what Gramps has just said-have a little fun as well and just play a few songs for sheer pleasure. The good thing about learning or playing songs is, as you are learning the other stuff you'll be able to apply that learning to places in the songs-an arp instead of a Dm7 for instance in a ii-V7-I for instance.

[elixzer]

Originally Posted by billkath

True.
Personally, I'l practice "songs" as much as I'll practice my scales and mode. I've a new book coming on Arps, and I plan to then spend 1/3 Arps, 1/3 scales, 1/3 songs.
When I say "songs"- sometimes that might be just chord progressions- new voicings and then using those new voicings in various progressions, so that I can learn what those progressions "sound like".

I aint hip to arps yet...keep hearing that term. Whats it mean??

Man, Elixzer- you're practicing hard!!!

THANKS that makes me feel REAL good! That is some inspiration for me

Good for you-but remember what Gramps has just said-have a little fun as well and just play a few songs for sheer pleasure. The good thing about learning or playing songs is, as you are learning the other stuff you'll be able to apply that learning to places in the songs-an arp instead of a Dm7 for instance in a ii-V7-I for instance.

Well not sure if you read all of my log, but towars end--either last entry or the one before I say how I discovered this 'wonderful' chord progression...? Well I was playing it before in rapture!
See thing to understand about me is this------IF you was gonna take that 'right brain left brain' explanation for how some people is more 'artistic and others more rational-minded, I am VRERY much the former. In that I could get off just hitting G, and improvizing chanting or singing over it. And that has been one of the things thats happened to me since o got guitar. I have many audio tapes of me doing my OWN compositions either spontaneously or having working out some chord progression. So that is in a way no problem. Now...if you say 'aaahhh but can you Do an established song to the end'--well no. I have done this classical piece latyely but it is very beginner
So my point is is that this log is like a new discipline for me, that is why it may seem very practisy--because it is very new avenues for me. I DO feel at same time that I am going into understanding music (hope so0, and my goals include being able to compose my OWN feelings/songs through understanding guitar. So I can play whats in my head, heart, soul, or something I hear?

[billkath]

Arps is a short term for Arpeggios. Arpeggios, as I understand them, are simply certain notes from a chord , played one after another, either ascending or descending. It skips notes in a scale.
Have a listen to this lesson-he's much better at explaing than me
YouTube - How to Play Jazz Guitar : How to Play Arpeggios in Jazz Guitar

[derek]

Originally Posted by billkath

Arps is a short term for Arpeggios. Arpeggios, as I understand them, are simply certain notes from a chord , played one after another, either ascending or descending. It skips notes in a scale.
Have a listen to this lesson-he's much better at explaing than me
YouTube - How to Play Jazz Guitar : How to Play Arpeggios in Jazz Guitar

Spot on explaination, and the Fred Hamilton vid is gold. With scales, you are getting that 1/2 step, whole step sound, which is fine, but with arps, you are outlining the chord, and you get wider intervallic sounds. They are a bit easier, particularly at first, to navigate jazz changes than using scales.

[Gramps]

elixzer,

Good job at organizing your practice routine. As you probably realized from my question I feel it's important to have a few standards under your belt so you have something to try you're new theory on. It will also help you learn the jazz vocabulary. You might try Lady Be Good (I,IV,V changes with 1 II, added) or Night and Day (ii,V,I and decending minor chords) Their both easy and have chord change intervals that you'll run into over and over in any style of music.

[elixzer]

Originally Posted by Gramps

elixzer,

Good job at organizing your practice routine. As you probably realized from my question I feel it's important to have a few standards under your belt so you have something to try you're new theory on. It will also help you learn the jazz vocabulary. You might try Lady Be Good (I,IV,V changes with 1 II, added) or Night and Day (ii,V,I and decending minor chords) Their both easy and have chord change intervals that you'll run into over and over in any style of music.

where would I find the music to learn them? At the moment I cannot read notation. Are you just saying I need the chord changes?

[Gramps]

Yes, you should learn the chord changes and melody. From there you can start applying what you're practicing to the songs. Check out text for Night and Day and look around for Lady Be Good. (You-Tube is great for finding different versions of songs)

Good luck.

PS. I agree that arp studies should get you moving quicker than scales. You can look at them as scales that have been striped of some of their notes or spread out chords. They are simpler and easier to apply for a beginner. (in reality you should see scales, arps and chords as parts of the same thing)

[elixzer]

thanks for the link. I see it is notation. Hmmmm when you see the CHORDS over the top of the notes whats this mean--? Can you JUST play the chords....confused about what all the notes are doing in relation to the chords

Are Jazz arps different from Classical arpeggios? I have been doing some of those with fingerstyle--so for exampmpe with chords like C, Amin, G7 using P, on base strings, and I, A, and M on higher three strings. So are Jazz ones different...?

When I also say have a chord down and play every string separately with thumb or finger, in classical music that is arpeggio too. I am not a 'Classical guitarist' it is just that i have become familiar with that term via learning fingerstyle with that style of music

[Gramps]

OK, I'm starting to get a better idea of where you are in the learning curve.

If you can't read the melody you can find a few versions on You-tube and learn it there by ear. You can also look up fingerings for the chords on this site or lots of others. You should learn at least 2 voicings (one with tonic on low E and one on the A string) of a 6th, maj7th, min7th and min7b5 chord for starters. These will take you a long way while learning.

I think you really should learn a song or two so you can apply the theory your working on to actual songs.

Difference between Classical or Jazz arps??? Not really. You can make up your own arps if you like but stick with arps for the same chord voicings mentioned above and start to apply voice leading once you get them down.

[randalljazz]

some good work you are doing. learn to read. spend a few minutes every day. do it FIRST and get it out of the way. it will open new worlds to you.

[elixzer]

Originally Posted by randalljazz

some good work you are doing. learn to read. spend a few minutes every day. do it FIRST and get it out of the way. it will open new worlds to you.

THANKS for the encouragement

--I always usually like to ask why

" it will open new worlds to you."

why?

[fep]

Originally Posted by Gramps

Do you play any music yet?

Yes, you need to practice songs. Learning songs should be your 1st priority... and doing whatever it takes to quickly learn songs should also be your 1st priority - learn to read music, learn songs by ear, learn songs from friends, off of youtube, off of tablature etc.

Here's something written from my previous guitar teacher, Bill Thrasher(deceased) (he wrote the Joe Pass Guitar Styles Book).

[elixzer]

Hmmmmm, this is very fascinating and seems to contradict what I thought others had suggested. I have MANY questions but its late here and they'll have to wait for tomorrow

Cacth you all later, and thanks for all this help

[fep]

Originally Posted by elixzer

Hmmmmm, this is very fascinating and seems to contradict what I thought others had suggested. I have MANY questions but its late here and they'll have to wait for tomorrow

Cacth you all later, and thanks for all this help

Perhaps people got lost in the detail of your practice and either didn't notice you are not playing songs or they're not seeing the big picture. I would be interested in hearing from the long in experience performers and teachers on this matter.

Maybe you should ask them directly... I'll ask for you...

Forum members... Do you agree with Bill Thrashers comments above regarding the importance of playing songs... lots of songs... as your number one priority in your practice shedule?

[billkath]

Originally Posted by fep

Forum members... Do you agree with Bill Thrashers comments above regarding the importance of playing songs... lots of songs... as your number one priority in your practice shedule?

I agree. As I said- 1/3rd of my practice in jazz is playing (and learning) songs. In my particular case, though- I'm out playing most nights of the week, and I'm always learning new songs for shows and upcoming gigs of various genres, so that 1/3rd of practice is specifically jazz songs. Quite a few are now making their way onto my regular gig list!

[tonedeaf]

Originally Posted by elixzer

THANKS for the encouragement

--I always usually like to ask why

" it will open new worlds to you."

why?

Elixzer,
Imagine how much less you would get out of this forum if you could not read english. The music staff is the way musciains convey their exact ideas. You are relying on someone else to interpret this for you. Also, you are missing the tools to convey to others your exact intentions about any music you may create.

[elixzer]

Originally Posted by fep

Perhaps people got lost in the detail of your practice and either didn't notice you are not playing songs or they're not seeing the big picture. I would be interested in hearing from the long in experience performers and teachers on this matter.

Maybe you should ask them directly... I'll ask for you...

Forum members... Do you agree with Bill Thrashers comments above regarding the importance of playing songs... lots of songs... as your number one priority in your practice shedule?

Thanks for inquiring for me fep I am very interested in this question.
You see intention--if you like--was that IF I could begin to understanding the language of music that I would sponataneously begin creating my OWN songs, OR find ways to naturally find songs that I like....? Feel me?

[fivebells]

elixzer, I've offered this advice a few times already, so I'll do it just once more and then leave you alone: learn to play some songs, before you attempt anything more.

Start with songs you already know and like. Search for them online. You will need to be able to read chord diagrams, tabs and the simplest musical notation: single-note melodies on the treble clef (you don't have to sight-read yet but you must be able to work it out, note-by-note). You're not going far in jazz guitar without that literacy.

[elixzer]

Thanks ---yea. What I am saying is is that when you click with something and someone else says that a better way is something else, in order to get the drive you need to click on it. Hard to explain but I though i was doing the groundwork already to get to do what you suggest?
Look--for example, like you say, in order to even PLAY songs I need to learn theory right? Notes etc so that will take up time as well as learning the fingerstyle technique etc--i cant just 'play a song' out of the air. But i AM inspired now to look for a song to work on. I really love The Shadow of Your Smile

[elixzer]

well i have found notes and tabs for The Shadow of Your Smile at this site!

But it looks very complex, and I am struggling to understand the fingering and application of TABS

Do you think I should now look for That's Life ....?

[Gramps]

There is no "right" way to learn but if I had to learn all the rules of music theory prior to learning songs I never would have continued playing.

"in order to even PLAY songs I need to learn theory right?"

No, not right. You can learn 4 chord shapes (6th, min7th, dom7th and min7b5) and use them to start to play songs. Start with ones that don't have too many changes in them like Night and Day or Oh, Lady Be Good or Take the A Train.

Learn to play a solid rhythm part, 4 to a bar, on a couple of songs while singing (whistling) the melody. When you have that down you can start applying what you learn about scales, arps, chord voicings or subs to those actual songs. It's so much easier for me to grasp theory concepts when I apply them to actual songs.

The Shadow Of Your Smile has quite a few changes in it so it might not be the best choice for your first song but if you want to work on it it is available at the link I posted above.

[elixzer]

I contacted Scotty, a guitar tutor from Youtube. This is his reply:

scottyxcom has sent you a message:
Re: Hi can you offer an opinion about this?


Music is a PERFORMANCE ART. The most important thing about it is the songs you can actually play. In fact that's the ONLY thing that matters. Who cares how many scales or exercises you can play?

But I would contend that in order to be more effective at learning and playing songs ... or indeed COMPOSING or improvising, you have to UNDERSTAND the basic structures in music.

EAR TRAINING is absolutely essential. How are you going to train your ears if you don't know your theory? MUSIC IS A LANGUAGE and like any language, you have to know the patterns 3 WAYS ... THINK (Theory), READ (Notation), HEAR (Ear Training) and SPEAK (Technique). All these skills need to be developed simultaneously to become a REAL player.

All the best,
Scotty

[fivebells]

Originally Posted by elixzer

Look--for example, like you say, in order to even PLAY songs I need to learn theory right?

Theory comes in layers and at the first layer, it's as simple as this: a song exists in a melody. The chords derive from and support the melody, but they are not the song. It really is all about the melody.

In the more advanced layers of theory, you'll discover how chords carry voices that move through the changes like alternative melodies. As a sophisticated accompanist and as a soloist you will start exploring those alternatives, perhaps referring back to the original melody at times, or otherwise abandoning it completely. This is where the knowledge of scales and modes will be important — but not as important as knowing the melody.

The Guitar Guy has provided simple chords for The Shadow Of Your Smile. As I said, though, the chords are not the song. First, go to YouTube and listen to several vocal versions of the song (Tony Bennett, Johnny Mathis, Barbra Streisand) so you have the melody thoroughly committed to memory. Then play these chords, and sing/hum/whistle the melody as you go.

The next stage is to listen to a guitarist play the song in chord-melody style — that is, handling the melody and the harmonic accompaniment at once. Barney Kessel's version is marvellous.

Through this process you will start hearing and understanding music (melody, harmony, structure) in ways that can't be told or taught.

[Gramps]

By the way, Learn theory or learn songs..... it isn't an either/or type of thing. Work on what you're doing but add a couple of songs at a time.

[elixzer]

Yes I was going to I am learning that if you feel stuck between two ways of doing things, so do them both. Reminds me of this cool thing I read a slittle while ago. A famous saxophonist was asked about the 'right way to practice', and the person asking was worried he wasn't doing it right. So the saxophinist advised to just practice anyway whilse you thinking about it lol

words to that effect anyway

[elixzer]

Originally Posted by fivebells

Theory comes in layers and at the first layer, it's as simple as this: a song exists in a melody. The chords derive from and support the melody, but they are not the song. It really is all about the melody.

In the more advanced layers of theory, you'll discover how chords carry voices that move through the changes like alternative melodies. As a sophisticated accompanist and as a soloist you will start exploring those alternatives, perhaps referring back to the original melody at times, or otherwise abandoning it completely. This is where the knowledge of scales and modes will be important — but not as important as knowing the melody.

The Guitar Guy has provided simple chords for The Shadow Of Your Smile. As I said, though, the chords are not the song. First, go to YouTube and listen to several vocal versions of the song (Tony Bennett, Johnny Mathis, Barbra Streisand) so you have the melody thoroughly committed to memory. Then play these chords, and sing/hum/whistle the melody as you go.

The next stage is to listen to a guitarist play the song in chord-melody style — that is, handling the melody and the harmonic accompaniment at once. Barney Kessel's version is marvellous.

Through this process you will start hearing and understanding music (melody, harmony, structure) in ways that can't be told or taught.

Hey fivebells, Thanks for that link for The Shadow of Your Smile. I had searched to find one I could handle and didn't see that, and like you say that seems quite a manageable one for me.

What I find right now is that unlike the regular chords I am used to like Cmaj7, Am7, etc etc, some of them here I have to look up. So I think a good excercise is to get real familiar with these chords, and then start playing like you say and sing the melody, and supplement this with also studying chord construction more--I recently downloaded the Jazzguitar chord e-book pdf, so that will come in handy

[C.A.JO.]

Originally Posted by fep

Forum members... Do you agree with Bill Thrashers comments above regarding the importance of playing songs... lots of songs... as your number one priority in your practice shedule?

Depends on your personal goals.

If you to become a virtuoso, you have to know the tools. If you just want to play, learn songs.

I think a healthy dose of each is needed. I spend approx. 6 months a year on skill-expanding practice (theory, speed, aural skills, scales, arps, chords and that stuff). Then songs... maybe 80/20 division. The next 6 months is spend on application of tools to music. (Songs, licks, transcribing, playing). Then I 80/20 on that stuff instead. In my book you got to do both, but you can't do it on the same time.

[elixzer]

Originally Posted by C.A.JO.

Depends on your personal goals.

If you to become a virtuoso, you have to know the tools. If you just want to play, learn songs.

I think a healthy dose of each is needed. I spend approx. 6 months a year on skill-expanding practice (theory, speed, aural skills, scales, arps, chords and that stuff). Then songs... maybe 80/20 division. The next 6 months is spend on application of tools to music. (Songs, licks, transcribing, playing). Then I 80/20 on that stuff instead. In my book you got to do both, but you can't do it on the same time.

I am not sure I am clear with you? What do you think the emphasis on learning songs I have been given? Did you have a look at my practice log (first post)? Where I was focusing on skill-expanding practice.
because here you seem to suggest in order to be virtuoso that is more what you need, and then say that learning that AND playing songs cannot be at same time. This implies to me that me now suddenly devoting my time to learning eg The Shadow of Your Smile --which WILl take up much of my time will take away from the skills drive I was embarking on above--diggin that I am not even an experienced player yet.
Your furthwer throughts on this please?