Arps

[Sailor]

Any recommendations, pdfs, sites to help in a systematic approach to learning ARPS??

I feel like I'm learning to arpegiate chords all over the neck but with little rhyme or reason...also forgetting a lot during solo time.

How about any proven, musical ways that work...12 bar jazz blues....ii-V-I's....whatever you guys think....most appreciated!

Sailor

[fep]

Hi Sailor,

This is the best instructional DVD I own. Don Mock is a great teacher and he has some great arp instruction on this video:

Amazon.com: Don Mock: The Blues From Rock To Jazz: Don Mock: Movies & TV

I give it 5 stars, a must buy for the aspiring blues rock or jazz guitarist

[JohnW400]

After you learn the major7:

b7 for dominant then
b3 for mi7 then
b5 for mi7b5 then
bb7 for dim7

There are plenty more but this should hold you for now.

Hint: each flatted note will change the root on the inverted chords but Every root position is C. ie C the b7 of D, the b3 of A and the b5 of F# so you will have to adjust those as noted

[derek]

In addition to fep's and Wiz's fine suggestions, Mimi Fox's book thru Mel Bay on arps is very systematic, and well laid out. In addition, taking a look at the Fred Hamilton youtube vids that have been posted here a few times is very enlightening about how to make them sound more like jazz. Good luck

[Baltar Hornbeek]

It's jazz, be creative. You don't need another system, book or approach. Just get back to work.

[Scrybe]

^^^ i might have to steal that for my signature (more as a reminder to me than edict for anyone else...)

[Sailor]

For some reason my email doesn't tell me when I have a response, so....thanks all!

Thanks John and Derek...John, why start all those chords on Root C??? Just to demonstrate??

Baltar....scary...hit the nail on the head...I surf all night looking for an easier or better way...I COULD be playing...right??

Sailor

[JohnW400]

Sailor,

C is the root of C
C is the 3rd of Abma7
C is the 5th of F ma7
C is the 7th of Db ma7

So you're learning 7th chord arpeggios from a static point

After you've done all the 7ths you should be able to stay in one are and just play through the cycle

[Sailor]

Thanks John...I get the chords and inversions...and I do like to stay in one area for now. But don't I need to know more of a vi-ii-V-I arp study all in one area??

I'm ARP burned out and confused now...but it's starting to sound jazzy and I know what's going on. I put all "mode" playing on the back burner and am practicing solos based on ARPS and licks, for now...better for me!!

Thanks John, SAILOR

[bako]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Thanks John...I get the chords and inversions...and I do like to stay in one area for now. But don't I need to know more of a vi-ii-V-I arp study all in one area?? SAILOR

Over time you will need an arp study for every possible progression that you may encounter but at a certain point you will know the arps so well that it will just emerge from your fingers without additional prep.

Johns example works off common tones between 4 maj7 chords (one each for root, 3rd, 5th and 7th). He gives you multiple useable 2 octave fingerings for each. This approach is very helpful for voice leading. These can be modified for all other 7th chord types.

If you did something similar with the major scale chords:

C CEGB/CEGA/CEFA/CDFA
D DFAC/DFAB/DFGB/DEGB
E EGBD/EGBC/EGAC/EFAC
F FACE/FACD/FABD/FGBD
G GBDF/GBDE/GBCE/GACE
A ACEG/ACEF/ACDF/ABDF
B BDFA/BDFG/BDEG/BCEG

The note in bold is the common tone between the 4 diatonic chords that follow as a root, 3rd, 5th and 7th.
I'll leave the fingerings up to you.

To address the other 7 note scales in a similar fashion do the following:

For C melodic minor change E to Eb
For C harmonic minor change E to Eb and A to Ab
For C harmonic major change A to Ab

[TommyD]

This is a method taught to me by Konitz. He takes a simple tune - "What is this thing", for example. Write out the chord changes (lose the half-diminished chords for now), and the number of beats each chord occupies. Use small vertical lines for the beats and longer vertical lines for the measures. If you have to, write out the four notes for each chord, and keep them simple; 7ths are 7ths and not flatted fifth elevenths. Minor 7ths and major 7ths are just that.
Now play notes from the chords with a slow rhythm, perhaps start with half notes - 2 to a bar. Choose from the notes of the chords only - any you like the sound of. Go thru the tune a couple of times trying to be inventive and making "music", then try quarter notes, still using the notes of the chords only. After you've got all the chords in your head and fingers, try eighth notes.
This is called "vertical" soloing, as opposed to using scales, which is "horizontal" soloing. Somewhere along the process, you can add color tones and leading tones, etc., which will lead you into a combination of the two - which is what most good musicians do in their solos. Konitz says he won't perform a tune in public unless he works it up this way. Naturally, he doesn't start with half-notes!
Good way to learn tunes AND arpeggios, and it's fun.
Oh! One more thing - if there are 2 chords in 1 measure, choose the dominant, not the minor 7th, like Joe Pass does (did).

Tommy/

[JohnW400]

Sailor heres and arp study in 2 positions using the "master progression" (I IV vii iii vi ii V I) It's the "master" because it contains all the diatonic chords in the majot key but in 4ths. My inversion choices are an attempt to 'economize' movement. Hope this helps.


The way to do this really is to follow a method wihich is to first learn the major scale and it's modes in the eight fingerings (I posted it several times but I don't think many people really downloaded it) and then learn the arpeggios off of those eight fingerings. (posted above)

After you do the excercise go back and learn all the positions like I mention. You'll now have an idea of waht your aiming at.

[Sailor]

Thanks so much John! This will take a lot of work but I may be closer than I think. Let's see how far I get in a week!!

This will, eventually, all come second nature...right???


Sailor

[Scrybe]

Thx John, I've nicked both of these pdfs to add to my practice resources....

[Goofsus4]

It may not sound very sophisticated, but I just improvise for an hour or so over a single chord restricting myself to playing the arp in every position. I try to visualize the intervals I'm playing and connect them into patterns on the fretboad then link those to various inversions/voicings for the chord. It's a slow process, but it's very musical, builds improvisational skills, isn't as boring as just practicing the arp in a sequential pattern. After working on single notes, I'll start using double stops and chord fragments. This also has helped me see options for voicings for chord melody too.

[Reg]

Hey Sailor...looks like some great tips. Here's some arpeggios picking studies.
There just technical studies, not performance material. I'm from school of building technique to play anything, not just what you practice.They work.
Start at 3rd position (where your 1st finger rests) no streches.
Finger; 1234 String; 6543 Fret; 3456
finger; 1234 String; 5432 Fret; 3456
finger; 1234 String; 4321 Fret; 3456
finger; 1234 String; 4321 Fret; 4567
finger; 1234 String; 5432 Fret; 4567...... * keep moving up by 1 fret until
finger; 1234 String; 6543 Fret; 4567 .........8th fret then go back down.

That's one study, here's the rest;
1234 2341 3412 4123
1342 2413 3124 4231 ..... * you also play them all in opposite string
1423 2134 3241 4312 .........direction. String; 1234
1241 2314 3421 4132 .................................2345
1324 2431 3142 4213 .................................3456 etc..
1432 2143 3214 4321
That's 24 studies, plus 24 more opposite string direction. I single pick each note at first, then double etc... Keep fingers close to neck with as little movement as possible. If you don't watch your hand it will help with sight reading. Start at medium to slow tempo, around MM140. I don't practice much anymore, but I use to start practice with 3 or 4 studies at MM 180 to 200. Makes playing arpeggios a piece of cake... really. My warm up at gigs is usually two octaves of all modes of melodic or harmonic minor or natural, depends on gig. Sometimes moving up neck or sometimes staying in one position.
When I play arpeggios, I usually don't spell out chords. I use them as grace or approach notes to my melody or solo. Usually not just 3rds either.
The attached PDF is the 1st study. 1234 good luck Reg

[Sailor]

Thanks to all for making this a good discussion. With all these great ideas, I'm still having a hard time connecting the exercises with SONGS! I guess I feel like I'm getting old and I just want to play music without exercises...although I know this isn't how it works.

Want to play like this:

YouTube - Victor plays" Satin Doll"(D,Ellington,B.Strayhorn)

Sailor

[bako]

Originally Posted by Goofsus4

It may not sound very sophisticated, but I just improvise for an hour or so over a single chord restricting myself to playing the arp in every position. I try to visualize the intervals I'm playing and connect them into patterns on the fretboad then link those to various inversions/voicings for the chord. It's a slow process, but it's very musical, builds improvisational skills, isn't as boring as just practicing the arp in a sequential pattern. After working on single notes, I'll start using double stops and chord fragments. This also has helped me see options for voicings for chord melody too.

Simple but on another level very sophisticated. You are working with a limited noted collection and making as much music as possible, using the entire instrument. You can document many fingerings and voicings afterwards if you choose without buying the book. Do you use an accompaniment or just play solo?

Two variants I did when working with seventh chords:
1. Shrink the seventh chord to two notes temporarily and play those notes everywhere
ex. C7b5------CE/CGb/CBb/EGb/EBb/GbBb
2. Swap a seventh chord tone or several for an extension
ex. CmMa7----CEbGB might become DEbAB

An hour is cool. I never had quite that much patience.

[timscarey]

I have my students start with the Major and minor triad arpeggios. After about 2 months going through and learning to start them on any string and find the 1, 3, and 5... and spell them by letter name. (usually 2nd year, 3rd year if they never practice).. I simply inform them of the use of the 7th in chords... by this time they kind of know that from learning stock dom. 7th chords, but I explain how to find and spell the 7th..... it's usually a very painless transition.

interval shapes and letter names, the keys to understanding the fretboard.

[randalljazz]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Thanks to all for making this a good discussion. With all these great ideas, I'm still having a hard time connecting the exercises with SONGS! I guess I feel like I'm getting old and I just want to play music without exercises...although I know this isn't how it works.

Want to play like this:

YouTube - Victor plays" Satin Doll"(D,Ellington,B.Strayhorn)

Sailor

arpeggio fragments in a tune:

Music Theory & Analysis - rhythm changes exercises for guitar - submitted by randalljazz

[JohnW400]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Thanks to all for making this a good discussion. With all these great ideas, I'm still having a hard time connecting the exercises with SONGS! I guess I feel like I'm getting old and I just want to play music without exercises...although I know this isn't how it works.

Want to play like this:

YouTube - Victor plays" Satin Doll"(D,Ellington,B.Strayhorn)

Sailor

Take a song and write out the changes. Then write out the arpeggios for each chord keeping them in the same/close position like I did in the excercise. For example if you chose All The Things.... then you would use :

Fmi7 Bbmi7/F Eb7/G Abma7/G Dmi7/F G7/F Cma7/G etc

Then choose athe next inversion of F and do the same:

Fmi7/Ab Bbmi7/Ab Eb/G or Bb ect.


Go to the next Fmi, Fmi7/C and do the same. Finally Fmi7/Eb.


This is a great excercise for when you get onto 13th arpeggios too. (13579 11 13)

[Goofsus4]

Originally Posted by bako

Simple but on another level very sophisticated. You are working with a limited noted collection and making as much music as possible, using the entire instrument. You can document many fingerings and voicings afterwards if you choose without buying the book. Do you use an accompaniment or just play solo?

Two variants I did when working with seventh chords:
1. Shrink the seventh chord to two notes temporarily and play those notes everywhere
ex. C7b5------CE/CGb/CBb/EGb/EBb/GbBb
2. Swap a seventh chord tone or several for an extension
ex. CmMa7----CEbGB might become DEbAB

An hour is cool. I never had quite that much patience.

Yes, always over accompaniment. I either boot up BIAB or just record myself comping it myself. I could not play that long over a single chord either without accompaniment. I actually started spending a lot of time playing over single chords when I got a Joe Pass CD and he ran about a bazillion lines over a G7. He was using more than just the arps, of course, and I do that as well, but I also force myself to just stick to the arps from time to time. If I don't I find myself sometime neglecting to focus on what I consider the most important aspect of the process - being able to always identify where the 1,3,5,7 is at any time, in any spot on the fretboard.

[ResidentRenzo]

Hi -

Very very useful post. I've been playing many years now but never studied arpeggios properly. I did some of the tasks mentioned in this thread though - arp studies on common standards, play chord + arp in respective position + doing sequences exercises with arps.

I downloaded pdfs and will study them, thanx!

[Stringbean]

A great place to study arpeggios used soloing over changes, is, the gypsy jazz stuff. You'll find them in all the great solos and licks. By their techniques and rhythmic devices...you'll find many ways to make your arps pop and swing.

[jsepguitar]

If you are interested in purchasing a book, you might want to check out Arpeggios for Guitar by Don Latarski. It shows a chord form and its related argeggio and scale. You can find a limited preview in the link below.


Arpeggios for Guitar - Google Books

[lazybones]

Check out timrobinsonguitar.com in the lessons section. He has simple exercises illustrated with video, PDF transcriptions, and a couple of backing tracks.

I spent an hour or so on the Minor Swing lesson today and found it valuable. Check it out!

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by TommyD

This is a method taught to me by Konitz. ...
This is called "vertical" soloing, as opposed to using scales, which is "horizontal" soloing. ...Konitz says he won't perform a tune in public unless he works it up this way. Good way to learn tunes AND arpeggios, and it's fun.

I'm doing a lot of practice with arps these days. Just thought I'd revive this thread because there's so much cool stuff in it. Check out Reg, bako et al for some great ideas... More elaboration on the Konitz vertical approach welcome...