genral theory ?

[musicfret]

hello, my question on theory is how do you know what to learn next after basic music theory books ?

how do i find a list of the different ideas to learn? and is there an order to learning them ?


thx for your advice fret.

[Reg]

Hey Fret... For guitarist, start with Harmony. Vincent Persichetti's "Twentieth Century Harmony" is good place to start, pretty traditional, but covers most of the material. He was at Juilliard School of Music, composition faculty years ago. Still good book. Then go to Berklee press and get Jazz versions and practices of harmony. Actually most jazz programs use Berklee's stuff or versions of, so you might find material elsewhere. You can see Berklee's material on line... Harmony usually also deals with melodic and rhythmic material, and even gets into form. I usually recommend students to become aware of the physics of music, a good start is W.T.Bartolomew's "Acoustics of Music" or H. Lowery's " A Guide to Musical Acoustics", or just check out Harvard Dictionary of Music. Good luck Reg

[pierre richard]

jamey aebersolds..jazz aids...a great wealth of material..

bert ligon..at The Univ Of South Carolina...monster site...great stuff...

do you know the theory of scale construction?...apply the knowledge to the guitar...over the entire fingerboard

chord construction theory?...apply it to the guitar...all chords and inversions...

the fingerboard will get smaller the more time you spend with just these two ...

time on the instrument..pierre

[musicfret]

thx for your reply's,

yea i know how to build all chords, inversions, intervals, building scales, how notation work's, and how they apply to the guitar

its the stuff after basic music theory.like reg said harmony theory , counterpoint, substitutions, i don't know all the name's of the ideas or what order to learn them in.

[Modalguru]

Originally Posted by musicfret

thx for your reply's,

yea i know how to build all chords, inversions, intervals, building scales, how notation work's, and how they apply to the guitar

its the stuff after basic music theory.like reg said harmony theory , counterpoint, substitutions, i don't know all the name's of the ideas or what order to learn them in.

Hi,

you already know alot. Have you put all of this into reality by playing songs? If not, that should be the next step.

Take a song you want to play and analyse it. If there are passages, which function you can't identify, ask others. Practise scales, chords and arps with a playback (find one, get Band in a Box or record one by yourself) and experiment.

The book "Talk jazz guitar" contains great excercises for the things I mentioned. And read the novel "The Music Lesson" by Victor Wooten, one of the best contemporary bassists. If possible take lessons with a good teacher to work through the songs and get new ideas. All of this will bring you much more further than any other book on harmony theory...

Cheers,
Chris

[fep]

Originally Posted by musicfret

thx for your reply's,

yea i know how to build all chords, inversions, intervals, building scales, how notation work's, and how they apply to the guitar

its the stuff after basic music theory.like reg said harmony theory , counterpoint, substitutions, i don't know all the name's of the ideas or what order to learn them in.

If you're like me you might find taking college music theory classes the way to go. (do you have a nearby community college that has a music program?).

It can take a lot of discipline to be consisitent about studying music theory. For me a class provides structure, deadlines, analysis projects, composition, testing, discussion... I find that all really useful for really learning theory.

You mentioned counterpoint which makes me think you may want to take the traditional theory course... I'm in the 4th semester of music theory; some of the things we've studied in the four semesters... 4 part chorale writing, counterpoint, cadences, secondary functioning chords, modulation, mixing modes, altered dominants, chromatic third chord relationships, Linear chromaticism, harmonic principles of jazz and blues... etc. etc. etc. And writing and/or analyzing short pieces using these concepts throughout the course.

The college basic theory covers a lot of ground and if you apply yourself you'll get a good music fondation.,

[Reg]

Originally Posted by musicfret

hello, my question on theory is how do you know what to learn next after basic music theory books ?

how do i find a list of the different ideas to learn? and is there an order to learning them ?


thx for your advice fret.

Hey fret... There's a difference between learning and applying... some of us are giving advice on playing and a few of us are giving you advice on learning, were all trying to help. I don't think there's any personal gratification going here... There are different schools of thought on how to become a good player...to say the least. I'm from the school that you need to learn, understand and read music well to become a good player. And all that you learn needs to be applied to your axe. Trial and error is slow, but will work to some degree. I hear lots of great players say you don't need the theoretical bullshit, use your ears...feel the music with your heart and gut... I preach that also, but most of those players have the knowledge and the skills, so it's pretty easy to say. When you don't understand something you can learn or train your ears wrong... How many musicians use #5 when talking about Dom7th chords, because they're use to seeing it notated that way in fakebooks, music programs, or on keyboard and don't realize that its that way because they adapted chordal notation from " Standard Chord Symbol Notation" by Carl Brandt and Clinton Roemer. And in reality most of the time should be notated b13, it makes a difference. #5 has implications that are different than b13, you should know that.
My point is that once you decide what and where you want to go with music, to become proficient you need understanding as well physical abilities. My reason for bringing up harmony as a good direction was simply that most guitar player don't have a good understanding of why things work or don't work in music and harmony will explain most of the reasons. Nothing to do with application on your axe. Reg

[Sailor]

There is certainly a scope and sequence to music theory, (and anything else for that matter). I think I learned the most at Junior College when our professors had us do endless ear training, melodic dictation, rhythmic dictation, interval training, chord theory, etc... Junior Colleges are cheap and one or two classes could net you what could take a lifetime to learn on your own or over the internet.

Thanks, Sailor